newbie learning to shift

[lauriecherie]

OK so let me start off by saying I am a girl and don't know much about bikes period. My fiance is big into it and I really liked riding. (I ask him tons of questions because I find it very interesting and I want to learn.) He didn't get to take me as often as I liked so we got a new 250 for me. So yesterday was my first day riding in something bigger than my driveway. He took me to an empty parking lot and let me loose. It was so much fun! Even if I didn't get over 35mph. I can take off and brake smoothly which I'm very proud off. (At one point, I was thinking of giving up and selling the thing.) As for the shifting, I'm a little jerky when shifting down. We had high winds yesterday so I really wasn't comfortable shifting any higher than second gear. So I just went first, second, first, you get the idea. He was telling me about how I need to match my RPM's when shifting. I googled for anything I could find on it, but had no luck. Is there like a chart or just from your knowledge about how many RPM's should it be at in whatever gear. Anything you can tell me about shifting that would make it smoother is appreciated. Like at what speeds should I shift down or up. Thanks you guys!!!

[conchwanab]

just a little info on shifting that hopefully wo'nt get you confused!!
The way you shift will vary the more confident you become with the bike.During the break in period I would have to shift between 3500 and 4500 rpms for each gear because you were'nt supposed to take it over 4500 rpms until the break in period was over.Now that the break in is over I will very my shift patterns depending on the road conditions,traffic,or your mood in general.Somedays on open roads no traffic redline riding just seems to tap the soul where the typical ride in your car to work just do'nt cut it!!play around in open parking lots to get the feel of the bikie and on less conjested roads.I'm doing the same with my wife who can ride a dirt bike but gets a little nervous around traffic.Most of all gear up and have fun,250's are a blast to ride!!

[islanderman7]

Welcome! Don't give up on this fun hobby. Everyone is jittery when it comes to learning how to ride, but practice, practice, practice. And you will get it down. Have you read your manual front to back? If I remember correctly, it said something like when you down shift do so when your RPM is at 5k.

If you ever driven a manual, it does help in understanding on how to match RPMs to your speed. I've driven a manual before I ridden a bike so I basically go by the sound of the engine before I shift. Its hard to explain, something like an innate feeling. Something you will develop over time.

[lauriecherie]

Thanks for the advice. I've driven a standard once (and by once, i mean for one day!), but of course, I don't remember. I tried doing it again but no luck. I can listen to my bike and pretty much tell when I need to shift up. It's the down shifting into first that jerks a little. But it's good to hear that it can develop over time with some practice. My fiance says I can rev up on the throttle a little and then shift. So I can try that. And I can def look up in my manual. Didn't think of that.

[islanderman7]

I see what you are saying now. I've experienced that "jerking" feeling when I down shift. I've done this a couple of times due to down shifting when my RPMs were kinda high (above 5k). It happens, but just don't panic when you do this. Just know that your RPMs need to be less than 5k before you down shift.

Don't know if this is on your mind. But when I approach a stop sign while in 4th gear I squeeze in the clutch all the way to the stop sign. While I am holding the clutch in, I shift all the way down into 1st. Some people prefer to engine brake (down shifting), but I prefer to use my brakes. This is much easier than trying to match your RPM's/Gear to your speed.

[HKr1]

As a new person learning to ride, I suggest using all the gears(with out skipping). Just pick an rpm range your happy with putting around, like 4000/6000. Everything over 6 shift up, everthing under 4 down shift. Dont pop the clutch out, just ease it out till you feel it engage.. then let it the rest of the way out. You will get the feel of it shifting on the 250r happens pretty fast, 6 gears by the time you get to 35mph is kinda crazy.

[Alex]

The smoothness will come with miles; I wouldn't worry about it at all right now. It's a combination of knowing when to slightly slow the release of the clutch lever, along with being careful not to roll all the way off the throttle during the downshift. I ran into a problem when I was a motorcycle newbie when I didn't realize some of the differences between car & bike transmissions. When I drive stick in a car, every once in awhile when I was at a stop, I'd put the transmission into 1st, back to neutral, back to 1st, etc., holding the clutch pedal down the whole time. A bit of OCD, I guess. Tried to do that with a bike and couldn't understand why it felt like the transmission was broken. Basically, once you shift into first, if you're still holding the clutch in you can put it back into neutral. But you will now not be able to get it back into 1st no matter how hard you push the shift lever down, unless you first let the clutch all the way out and then pull it in again. Once I realized that, it was a moment and I was glad that there wasn't something seriously wrong with my bike at the time.

[KJohnson21]

Have you taken the MSF training course? It's really valuable for developing good skills.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10286

[kkim]

As far as when to shift, it becomes intuitive after you spend some time on the bike. Learn to listen to the engine and recognize what rpm on the tach sounds to the ear. After awhile you won't need the tach to tell what rpm you're at. HKr1's advice was very good as when to shift up or down as a rough guide.

As far as downshifting from second to first, once I get past first gear, I never have seen a need to downshift back into first unless I come to a complete stop. When I do that, I usually pull in the clutch, coast to a stop using the brakes then shift down into first after I stop.

As far as downshifting from the higher gears than second, again, follow HKr1's advice as to when. Rev matching will help, but for right now concentrate on letting out the clutch smoothly to engage the next lower gear gradually instead of just letting the clutch lever go all at once. It's all about easing down in into the lower gear.... being at a low enough rpm will help make that transition not as abrupt. Try finding somewhere that will allow you to shift past second into third and I think you'll find your downshifting will be a lot smoother than from the second to first you are trying to do now.

Practice, practice, practice.

BTW, have you taken the MSF course yet? If not, consider doing so at your earliest convenience.

[Sailariel]

Laura (my 36 year old daughter`s name) You will do just fine. Your bike is a super sophisticated very forgiving machine. You made a great choice. Smooth shifting comes with practice--and you will be surprised how soon it will happen. I have been riding 50 years and still miss shifts on occasion. No big deal--everybody can`t be a John Surtees. Welcome to our cyber-family. Have a very Merry Christmas. Enjoy the ride. Alex II

[VeX]

While not a HELPFUL piece of advice, consider this:

The GSXR-1000's are sprocketed so that first gear can take you up to 120mph.

If you're not a fan of shifting that could suffice? ... Well except for the slight 'flaw' that if you literally blip the throttle over a speed bump wrong the bike will go from 10mph to 60mph in the blink of an eye (while you're on your behind watching it fly away )

[Alex]

Originally Posted by VeX

The GSXR-1000's are sprocketed so that first gear can take you up to 120mph.

I think it's closer to mid 90's with stock gearing, but your point stands.

[lauriecherie]

Lol thanks for the replies. I have taken the MSF course. Really helped out a lot. However, after taking it I kind of regretted getting my Ninja 250. Everyone raved about it being such a great starter bike. I love the look of the bike but find it kind of bulky, heavy, and I wish the seat was a little lower, even at 5'6" (My feet reach okay. It's a comfort/security thing.) We praticed on Nighthawks and I really felt very comfortable on it. I really do love it, I'm just a little uncomfortable. Of course I believe that once I am used to it, I'll be fine.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by lauriecherie

Lol thanks for the replies. I have taken the MSF course. Really helped out a lot. However, after taking it I kind of regretted getting my Ninja 250. Everyone raved about it being such a great starter bike. I love the look of the bike but find it kind of bulky, heavy, and I wish the seat was a little lower, even at 5'6" (My feet reach okay. It's a comfort/security thing.) We praticed on Nighthawks and I really felt very comfortable on it. I really do love it, I'm just a little uncomfortable. Of course I believe that once I am used to it, I'll be fine.

buy a lowering kit from roaring toyz. You need to feel comfortable to gain confidence. Once you gain the confidence, you can remove the lowering kit and put it back to stock. I recommend lowering not more than 1" at both front and back.

[Bone_Head311]

i like shifting between5.5 and 13

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by lauriecherie

I wish the seat was a little lower, even at 5'6" (My feet reach okay. It's a comfort/security thing.)

Maybe look into the Corbin seat. It will help you touch the ground better & feel lots nicer on your behind

[Sailariel]

Laura, You will do just fine. There is a huge difference between the Nitehawk and the Ninja. It`s like comparing a VW to a Porsche. The Ninja, in my opinion, is a safer and much better handling machine. It may be a bit tall for your diminutive frame and maybe a lowering kit is the way to go. From what I have read on this thread, it appears to me, at least, that it is a matter of getting used to the differences between the Nighthawk and the Ninja. Take it slow and give it time. You will be riding like a pro in short order. Have a very Merry Christmas. Alex II

[lauriecherie]

Thanks everyone for all replies.

Originally Posted by Alex Allmayer Beck

Laura, You will do just fine. There is a huge difference between the Nitehawk and the Ninja. It`s like comparing a VW to a Porsche. The Ninja, in my opinion, is a safer and much better handling machine. It may be a bit tall for your diminutive frame and maybe a lowering kit is the way to go. From what I have read on this thread, it appears to me, at least, that it is a matter of getting used to the differences between the Nighthawk and the Ninja. Take it slow and give it time. You will be riding like a pro in short order. Have a very Merry Christmas. Alex II

Thanks, your post made me feel a lot better! I really have hope of getting use to it. I mean I am a fairly tall girl and I do have long legs. I think it's just such a wide bike compared to the Nighthawk. I did get to do a lot of practicing in the parking lot which made me feel so much more comfortable on it. So I'll stick with it.

[zartan]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Maybe look into the Corbin seat. It will help you touch the ground better & feel lots nicer on your behind

I hear the corbin makes the bike feel even wider. Is is KKim who told me that?? I can't remember.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by zartan

I hear the corbin makes the bike feel even wider. Is is KKim who told me that?? I can't remember.

Yes it was me.... and it does feel like the Corbin seat, at the inner thigh portion, is a bit wider than the stock seat when you have your legs straddling the bike... at least that was my initial impression when I first installed the seat. Since then, the seat has gotten a bit better in that respect, but I still do notice it, but it's not an issue for me. Other than that, the seat is lower, is a million times more comfortable and is flat and wide to make sliding side to side very easy when cornering.

If the bit about it being too wide at the thighs is stopping you... don't. When you order your seat, tell them your concerns and Corbin will make adjustments to the padding to reshape it. I could even send mine back now to have the work done, if I so chose, but I've gotten used to it and for me height was not an issue. Go for it, Z... it would make a great gift to yourself.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by zartan

I hear the corbin makes the bike feel even wider. Is is KKim who told me that?? I can't remember.

Yeah, think its a guy thing!

The wife loves it, she can have both feet flat on the ground with it. I asked her about the width, she just shrugged and laughed

[zartan]

Originally Posted by kkim

. Go for it, Z... it would make a great gift to yourself.

yes !! when I get rolling in business again. MORE STUFF !! for the Ninja and my skates.

Lauriecheri shifting is a feel thing. When the engine sounds or feels tight then up shift. When it feels sloppy down shift. After a while it will be 2nd nature and you will do it at the right time. Just be careful when you are learning like you are already and remember to wear all your gear!

[FlamingYellowInsanity]

One other thing to keep in mind, that if you are down shifting from 2nd to 1st (like I think you are), that it will be jerky anyway. You just about have to let the engine die in second before you can downshift to 1st without jerking it around.

As for the matching the RPM's thing, just experiment with blipping the throttle when downshifting, basically:

- pull clutch in.
- shift down
_ {-blip throttle
{-let out clutch

The last 2 should be done almost at the same time. The bike will pretty much match the rpms on its own after you get a feel for it. Don't worry about it too much, smooth shifting will come with time and experience.

Travis

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by HKr1

As a new person learning to ride, I suggest using all the gears(with out skipping). Just pick an rpm range your happy with putting around, like 4000/6000. Everything over 6 shift up, everthing under 4 down shift. Dont pop the clutch out, just ease it out till you feel it engage.. then let it the rest of the way out. You will get the feel of it shifting on the 250r happens pretty fast, 6 gears by the time you get to 35mph is kinda crazy.

Yes... for me, when im taking it Easy, i just shift into 6th gear.. as i hit 40 MPH

that is going by the 'Feel,Loudness' of the engine RPMs (like i do) .... of which i think, if i can remb... looking down, around 5,000-6,000 RPMs during my Shifting up too the Next Gear for Each!

Now... later on once your really comfy shifting,your Bikes Break-in point is done.... If you Take off (deadstop) and Shifting each gear in the 8,000-9,000 RPM range.... buy the time you hit 6th gear... youll be doing around 60 MPH
(Dont do it yet lol, but im just giving you a Example of Speed/RPM makeup!)

If your BF didnt tell you, your Clutch Lever 'Play' or ' Friction Zone' will get alil easier while shifting... once you get 1,000miles on your bike (least on my bike im now noticing it) making shifting,taking off even Easier!

Welcome and Have a Good Time!

[ScorpionNinja]

oooh if you noticed on the Nighthawks... vs the Ninja 250

nighthawks speedo reads Max @ 85 MPH

Ninja 250s speedo reads Max @ 120 MPH

I remb noticing the 85 MPH speedo on my MSF nighthawk, as i thought too myself " Wow a 125cc motorcycle can get up too 85 MPH?"

[BlueRaven]

I downshift when i reach 4,000 RPM. To make it shift smoother let go of throttle (gas), pull in clutch, shift down, let go of clutch slowly and give her gas after you have fully let go of the clutch. This is what i do with every vehicle, rig, and bike i drive. I wouldn't know how to drive an automatic.

[Elfling]

Originally Posted by lauriecherie

Thanks everyone for all replies.




Thanks, your post made me feel a lot better! I really have hope of getting use to it. I mean I am a fairly tall girl and I do have long legs. I think it's just such a wide bike compared to the Nighthawk. I did get to do a lot of practicing in the parking lot which made me feel so much more comfortable on it. So I'll stick with it.

You'll be fine I'm five three and manage a Ninja 250 and a CBR600 with no lowering whatsoever. Just spend more time on the bike and you'll get the confidence to be on your toes. Realize that you don't have to have both feet flat on the ground. Your left foot is going to be on the shifter at stops for the most part, so lean to your right and get your right foot down for steadiness.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by Elfling

You'll be fine I'm five three and manage a Ninja 250 and a CBR600 with no lowering whatsoever. Just spend more time on the bike and you'll get the confidence to be on your toes. Realize that you don't have to have both feet flat on the ground. Your left foot is going to be on the shifter at stops for the most part, so lean to your right and get your right foot down for steadiness.

*bump*

Keep your right foot on the break and left foot on the ground at stops, youll see why next time you have to stop on a hill just my two cents

[welcome2thedawn]

there are some good vids on you tube about how to rev match and blipping the throttle...it feels like a weird thing to do when you are slowing down but it really does help smooth things out....practice on a back road....good luck....oh and i fully agree with the above statement....on a steep hill you will want one foot on that back break

[LazinCajun]

I had a cop here in FL tell me that I had to have both feet on the ground to legally be stopped, contrary to what was taught in the MSF (and I couldn't find that law anywhere, but... :shrug: )

[DarkNinja52]

I come to complete stops at stop signs without putting my feet down, actually did it in front of a cop today, they kind of followed me for a little bit after that (it was at my school, campus police). But they didnt do anything. I hope you don't have to put both feet down. Most cars don't even stop all the way for stop signs around here...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

I come to complete stops at stop signs without putting my feet down, actually did it in front of a cop today, they kind of followed me for a little bit after that (it was at my school, campus police). But they didnt do anything. I hope you don't have to put both feet down. Most cars don't even stop all the way for stop signs around here...

I do it constantly. IIRC, the GA motorcycle driver's manual even encouraged you to practice it. Either it was that or the MSF BRC coursework (the GA moto manual is based on the BRC). I've seen videos of an over-qualified, experienced, short, and somewhat old, lady who can't touch both feet on any of her numerous bikes and yet she was teaching other short, small, female, students how to pick up super heavy bike after it's been downed and saying that both feet is a confidence thing, not a requirement. The cop was wrong.

[DarkNinja52]

-1 for the five oh

[rockNroll]

I was pulled for not putting any feet down for failure to stop at a traffic sign. I asked her "didn't you notice, my bike came to a complete stop?" I could see the look in her face. She apologized and sent me on my way and asked it I'd get a foot down at my stops because it just looks like I didn't come to a complete stop. "It just didn't look right."

[DarkNinja52]

i guess i kind of understand that, sometimes i feel like it doesnt look like the bike stopped unless your feet are down, but i dont think that really is the qualifying factor for stopping at a stop sign, cars rarely fully stop for stop signs.

just remember to put your feet down if you see a cop in the area i guess... what else can you do

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by lauriecherie

Thanks for the advice. I've driven a standard once (and by once, i mean for one day!), but of course, I don't remember. I tried doing it again but no luck. I can listen to my bike and pretty much tell when I need to shift up. It's the down shifting into first that jerks a little. But it's good to hear that it can develop over time with some practice. My fiance says I can rev up on the throttle a little and then shift. So I can try that. And I can def look up in my manual. Didn't think of that.

Someone might have covered this already, but pretty much no matter what you do the bike will tend to jerk if you downshift to 1st gear while moving. Like a stick-shift car, you generally don't shift down to 1st until you have come to a stop.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by Reswob

Someone might have covered this already, but pretty much no matter what you do the bike will tend to jerk if you downshift to 1st gear while moving. Like a stick-shift car, you generally don't shift down to 1st until you have come to a stop.

Actually with both the ninja and a manual car you can easily go down to first, but you have to be more careful with the clutch and think about rev matching (just a blip on the throttle when the clutch is pulled) and you can get a very smooth down-shift.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

Actually with both the ninja and a manual car you can easily go down to first, but you have to be more careful with the clutch and think about rev matching (just a blip on the throttle when the clutch is pulled) and you can get a very smooth down-shift.

Ok, well you can, but I was trying to say usually you don't. I find that (on a bike or in a car) 2nd gear works well in parking lots/slowing to a stop/etc, and I never shift back to first unless I've stopped. Unless maybe I just drive stick weird compared to everyone else? Haha.

[welcome2thedawn]

Ok, well you can, but I was trying to say usually you don't. I find that (on a bike or in a car) 2nd gear works well in parking lots/slowing to a stop/etc, and I never shift back to first unless I've stopped. Unless maybe I just drive stick weird compared to everyone else? Haha.

my boyfriend (who is an excellent driver) taught me to drive stick and he said the same thing...only shift into first when stopping....as for the ninja...if i could just skip first and never use it i would...

[Talonne]

I go into 1st whenever I need to do slow maneuvering (gas station, busy parking lot, etc).