January 22nd, 2015, 01:07 PM | #1 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Who wants to see a MOSFET R/R upgrade?
Yup, it's time to lose that old school SHUNT STYLE R/R to a more accurate, and dependable MOSFET R/R.
Mosfets run cooler, plus they’re more efficient. So if your stock R/R unit has burned out, maybe it’s time to move to a newer Mosfet type unit as shown here. Mosfet R/Rs model names start with the letters FH. Old type models start with SH. I have the R/R (FH010) already, just waiting for a few little pieces to show up. Stay tuned folks, I promise a nice clean and easy installation, with pictures of course. Update 12/12/14 Pieces & Parts. Okay I ordered the connectors from Eastern Beaver (http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html ) They offer a great selection and options to make the conversion, easy, and reliable, depending on the level you wish to take it to. I myself am choosing to do this modification as a plug-n-play version. The advantage is, if needed I can plug the OEM R/R back in without any issues or problems. Why would I want to switch back you say? The answer is my OEM R/R is in working condition, and when I travel I will carry it as a spare, just in case of emergency. The connectors I ordered will allow me to make an adapter harness/pigtail. All I have to do is supply some wire. UPDATE 01/21/2015 Okay so I've made the wiring adapter pigtail, only to find out I ordered the wrong connector that would plug into the bike's wiring. So I cut off the old one that was attached to the OEM R/R, and used that instead, which sucks. There is one wire that is no longer needed and that's the brown one, so I removed it from the OEM male connector. The 3 yellow wires are from the stator, so it makes no difference which order they are in when plugging into the gray plug on the R/R, no polarity issues. The black/yellow wire is the negative, to that goes on the right/outside, and the white/red wire goes to the left/inside, due to polarity. The middle is left empty for the black plug. But it's all done, and I will install it tomorrow. UPDATE 01/22/2015 Installed and working perfectly, so far. It's a tight fit, and only able to use the top bolt for mounting, but it's not going anywhere. FINAL VERDICT A worthwhile investment and upgrade that is needed to make the bike more dependable, and the R/R more efficient. One most remember that the OEM SHUNT R/R dump all those unused amps to their heatsink, if you've converted to all LEDs to save those amps, it's slowly cooking the OEM SHUNT R/R, which only speeds up the failure process. The MOSFET R/R is better at handling this, and more efficient, and a better R/R all together.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:00 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jason
Location: WV
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Interesting
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:02 PM | #3 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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so how many HP will this add? also do i need to change the amount of blinker fluid if i use a mosfet instead of shunt type?
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:03 PM | #4 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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i have another question...
has anyone ever seen a ninja 250 vrr burn out? i sure haven't.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:10 PM | #5 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Not as much hp gains when one adds the MONSTER ENERGY DECALS, and you'll need to change over to full synthetic blinkers fluid, and headlight fluid as well.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:16 PM | #6 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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thank you for posting this mod, I like updated r/r myself.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:20 PM | #7 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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I'm not sure about the 250, but I know the 500 has had some issues. I have done this modification to my own 500, after the OEM SHUNT one burned out, so it was a replacement/upgrade modification.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:34 PM | #8 | ||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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MOSFET? What exactly is that? I knew the term from the audio industry but I figured I'd copy and paste the information verbatim for the purposes of explanation. From wikipedia:
Quote:
Quote:
The MOSFET switch shunts also, but less frequently and only until voltage returns to an acceptable level, not to complete dissipation. The result is, it runs cooler, and it is much more effective as a regulator, delivering continuous voltage to the battery, regardless of engine speed. With a standard shunt type regulator, the charge rate at the battery actually goes down with an increase in engine speed. It's more effective at idle rather than full throttle. I did some online research and found that all available MOSFET type R/Rs are made by a single company in Japan. Shindengen is the name of it. Suzuki uses a MOSFET type too, but the manufacturer of theirs isn't on the RR itself. That makes identification nearly impossible. Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha all use Shindengen RRs in varying part or model numbers. These seem to range from an FH0001 to an FH0018A. The FH0001 can be found on R1s prior to 2006. It's huge though. The CBR/RR models use an FH0014A and the ZX6R an FH0016A. The most common ones used in the conversion are from either the R1 or the ZX10, that an FH0012A and an FH0010A respectively. There are others out there, including an FH0008A that I've seen available on Ebay. Any of these would be worth the $50-$70 asking price to do the conversion. There is some conjecture on the web about the output amperage of these RRs. Some claim that the FH0012AA is 50A but some of the others to be at 35A. I read somewhere that Shindengen states they are 40 to 50A in all cases. Whether this is the case or not, I don't have any of these units in my hand with a test lead and my digital Voltmeter to test that claim. There are kits available now on Ebay also that include the RR and all the associated wiring, terminals and fitting to make the conversion work. Roadstercycle is the name of the site. Also, it was suggested that some sort of volt meter be added to the bike to monitor voltage being sent to the battery. Further there is a company called Eastern Beaver that sells connector fittings and terminals. Some are packaged into kits also for just this job. Current models from the big 4 all have this type RR installed going back to 2006. Some going back to 2003 or 2004 depending on the model and manufacturer. I don't know about any of the Euro 4 doing the same. (BMW, Ducati, Aprilia and Triumph) Nothing I found during my research of this topic indicated that was the case. In fact, several forum articles I found indicated that this mod was being done on Triumphs, Aprilias and Ducatis. I don't know about BMW. I didn't see anything to indicate that. The Stator (alternator in car lingo) creates an AC current by passing magnets over coils of wires while the engine is turning. The VR (Voltage Regulator) Regulates the voltage and to some degree the amperage created by the stator. It does this in order to not cook the battery. The faster the motor spins the more voltage it creates. Batteries shoul not be charged much higher than 14v. The stator without a regulator could run away to voltages of 24v+. Voltages higher than 14.5v will burn out a battery quickly. The shunt regulator basically shorts out all voltage over the limit of 14.5v which in some cases is shorting a lot of voltage and amperage to ground which creates a lot of heat. The Mosfets basically do the same thing but with more finess than brute force. They turn on and off several thousand times a second to keep the voltage steady. The Mosfets do not need as much power to operate and such can operate at lower rpms. After your next ride, feel how hot your vr is. They get very warm if not hot. They are engineered just good enough for the heat they have to endure. The better way there is no significant heat therefore less stress and less possibility for failure. Its taking something that may very well break and replacing it with something that probably won't ever break. Less heat equals less stress in electronics.
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January 22nd, 2015, 02:58 PM | #9 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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on my fzr600, the vrr had been blown (common problem for that bike due mostly to a bad ground connection running through the frame) so i replaced it with a fancy mosfet 5-wire vrr. it does what it's supposed to do.
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January 22nd, 2015, 04:05 PM | #10 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX250F Posts: 178
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So the big question, is the rectifier more efficient? IE does more power get from the alternator to the output pin.
in other words, does it mean i can add more farkles? |
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January 22nd, 2015, 04:20 PM | #11 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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no. the rectifier is still 3 diodes. the only difference is the method for decreasing power output.
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January 22nd, 2015, 04:58 PM | #12 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Agreed, it doesn't not increase the total output, it just manages it more efficiently.
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January 22nd, 2015, 05:30 PM | #13 |
wat
Name: wat
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you need a stator with more windings if you want more power output. or i think --this is definitely not my area but-- maybe stronger magnet stator would also produce higher output power... but i might be wrong on that last part...
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January 22nd, 2015, 05:42 PM | #14 | ||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Quote:
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January 22nd, 2015, 05:52 PM | #15 | ||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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I also looked into a stator from another Kawasaki bike, knowing how they love to use the same part for multiple bike.
Unfortunately this is not the case for the stator. Quote:
Quote:
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:20 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: harry
Location: Central Florida
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I saw a post in a forum "somewhere" that claimed the cover could be machined to hold a wider stator from an unknown year model 600.
My Google-Foo is not strong enough to find it tonight.
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:29 PM | #17 | ||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Alternator_Information Quote:
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:41 PM | #18 |
wat
Name: wat
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ricky isn't alive anymore. grace and son manage the business now. electrosport also hand-winds stators. i bought a custom one from them a few years ago for my 600
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January 22nd, 2015, 10:16 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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Tim Perrott rewinds the VN750 stators to better than OEM specs at a fraction of the price for a new stator. They consistently produce more voltage than OEM stators. He uses better quality materials to achieve this. I assume this would also apply to the Ninja, but have no personal info on that.
You send him a rebuildable stator and pay shipping both ways. The last one I bought from him a few years ago was $65 IIRC. http://www.tpe-usa.com/
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January 22nd, 2015, 10:18 PM | #20 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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January 23rd, 2015, 10:15 AM | #21 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX250F Posts: 178
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Yeah thats what i figured. If somehow the rectifier was more efficient you could get more current (less voltage drop at current) but it would probably be incremental at best as i'm sure its already pretty efficient.
This would be the 300W ESG636 they were talking about from a zx6. That would be totally worth a bit of machining and 100 bucks to fit in there. If i find myself needing more power i'll look into it and document my results. http://www.amazon.com/ElectroSport-E.../dp/B000GV7RW2 If the bike really is requiring 120W of power to run, with no EFI and no electric water pump that is pretty insane. I would guess the electric fan is part of that, otherwise i just cant imagine what would be sucking up all that juice. If the fan really is a huge part of the equation, perhaps adding a 'thermobob' or doing some bypass circuit mods to prevent the fan from kicking on as readily would be worthwhile. I suppose i dont even know what I would use that would suck up 60+ watts. Maybe i'll hook up one of those 12v cigarette lighter coffee makers so i don't have to suffer the embarassment of parking my ratty little ninjette next to all the GS's and Ducati's at starbucks. |
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January 23rd, 2015, 11:37 AM | #22 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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I've e-mailed ElectroSports, and here it is their response on using the ESG636 Stator;
Quote:
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January 23rd, 2015, 02:09 PM | #23 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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Quote:
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January 23rd, 2015, 02:26 PM | #24 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Without posting Ohm's law to calculate watts, amps, etc.... Use this handy online calculator,
http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohm...calculator.php
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January 25th, 2015, 04:34 PM | #25 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
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If you're looking at doing a PnP swap to the factory connector, the FH016 off the '07-'08 ZX6R has wire pigtails rather than the Furukawa connectors. Just chop off what's on it and install whatever matches your harness. http://www.cycleterminal.com/ has similar prices to EB and a pretty good selection, plus they're in the US.
Here's an example with Metri-Pack connectors installed: It also has a lead to one of the stator wires, which is used to trigger the headlight delay relay. If you're completely bypassing the stock harness (as commonly done on the VN750), that extra wire can be run to the junction box in place of the wire that splits off in the middle of the harness. Note that on the VN750 (and probably other bikes), the connectors between the stator and the R/R are known to go bad, increasing resistance in the circuit and causing problems. Depending on the condition of your bike's wiring, reusing the stock wiring and/or connectors might be asking for trouble. Replacing the stock open connector with a sealed connector (like Furukawa or Metri-Pack) can improve the circuit and avoid future problems. You can always put a matching connector on your backup stock R/R for PnP ability too. The 500 doesn't seem to have too many issues here, so the 250 is probably fine also, but it's something worth checking while you're in there fixing things up. Here's the chart I found while researching this a while back. Code:
Model / Output / Source Bike FH001 / 35A / FJR 1300 FH008EB / 40A / CBR 600 RR FH010BA / 50A / ZX-10R 04-10, ZX6R 09-11 FH012AA / 50A / FJR 1300, R1 FH012BA / 50A / ZX-14R, ZR1400, GTR1400 FH014AA / 50A / CBR 1000 RR (Onboard Honda connectors, avoid) FH016AA / 40A / ZX-6R FH020 / 50A / Replacement for FH012 One of these days I'll get around to actually getting mine installed... I think the most recent roadblock is the wider mounting holes on the new R/R itself.
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January 25th, 2015, 05:02 PM | #26 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Agreed Bill,
my intention is to do a complete wiring kit from the stator, then to the battery, bypassing the factory wiring all together, courtesy of kits from Eastern Beaver. http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html For those whom want the whole kit including a new FH020 I would suggest the one from Moto-Electric http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com...-rectifier-kit
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January 25th, 2015, 09:01 PM | #28 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Yes they are, as I said that's the next step, just saving my pennies for now, but for now the pigtail is working fine.
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January 26th, 2015, 10:20 AM | #29 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
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January 26th, 2015, 10:31 AM | #30 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
This is a backburner project due to lack of funding.
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January 26th, 2015, 11:30 AM | #31 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
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The OEM VR/R died on my 2006 around the 55K mark by intermittently going up to 17-19 volts. When it did I'd pull in the clutch to idle the engine and hit the high beam and brake lights, and the extra load combined with low output would snap it back down to a more normal 13-14V range. Over a few months it got progressively worse until I decided to replace it with a used low-mileage spare I had. I'm at 78K and it seems to be working properly. I did convert all bulbs over to LED except for the headlamp, mainly to free up wattage to use my 40W electric heated gloves.
What is this regulator assembly off of? |
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January 26th, 2015, 12:11 PM | #32 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
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January 26th, 2015, 12:23 PM | #33 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
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double post, whoops.
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January 26th, 2015, 12:33 PM | #34 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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As I mentioned above, too much saved wattage/amps is bad for a SHUNT style R/R, as they will literally cook themselves to death, the Mosfet style, manages the wattage/amperage more efficiently
Quote:
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February 4th, 2015, 10:53 PM | #35 |
in your machine
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RIDE REPORT:
It finally was a nice day, so I put 160 miles on it today. It worked perfectly, I did notice that the voltage was more constant, even at lower RPMS. Before the upgrade at low RPMs my voltage indicator would go from constant green, to blinking green, not anymore. The unit itself was much cooler, than the OEM ever was.
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February 14th, 2015, 01:00 PM | #36 | |
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Quote:
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Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate |
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February 14th, 2015, 01:23 PM | #37 |
in your machine
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MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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one of these, while not a true read out, I have seen a difference, the LED is now solid green all the time now, as compared to before when it would blink all colors, depending on the loads., sometimes without any loads, especially on long trips, when the shunt R/R would get hot, I took this as a sign, for things to come.
Here is my complete write up on the LED. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/blog.php?b=8351 And the link to the item. http://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae...cts/BIKE-E-12V Here is also the link to the Main site, they offer a lot of other products, also in different styles, personally I'm going to add the ice warning light, and update the voltage to the auto brightness model. https://estore-sslserver.eu/gammatro...1-e89006e78fbe Ice warning unit: http://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae...fbe/Products/F Hope this answers your questions, I am planning to do a comparison between the R/Rs using a digital volt meter, once the weather warms up, for members whom prefer numbers. SIDENOTE: complete kit including new FH020 http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com/ And pick up the Metri-Pack 280 Connector Sealed Option for Part B @ http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html And that should take care of any issues whatsoever.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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February 14th, 2015, 05:15 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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I was thinking of installing something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Dig...ital+voltmeter
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Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate |
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February 14th, 2015, 06:09 PM | #39 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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Quote:
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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