Improv* Gaskets (Results)

[f0r54ken]

Ok guys, So since my bike is Problem Producer I'm running Some small experiments to dispel myth from science.

I had used RTV Red 650f and the original gaskets and have been keeping track on what fails and what doesn't. Just adding a Disclaimer on behalf of our current mechanical knowledge.

You should be replacing your Gaskets Every time you take anything off your engine. It doesn't matter if it costs $50 - $100 and 7 days of shipping time every single time you take it off, it doesn't matter if you are still in the stages of diagnoses and have to reassemble the bike to check your results. If it comes off, then new gasket!

Ok now that's out of the way.

Generator Cover - Fully sealed, No leaks, Longest test time about 2 weeks.

Rad Pipes - Fully sealed, No leaks, Longest test time about 2 weeks.

Water Pump Cover - Fully sealed, No leaks, Longest test time about 2 weeks.

Oil Drain Bolt - Fully sealed, No leaks, Longest test time about 2 weeks.

Rad Thermoswitch - Fully sealed, No leaks, Test time 2 days

Water Pump into Crank - Fully sealed, No leaks, Test time 2 days

Engine Cover (The Hat/Scalp of the engine) - Fully sealed for 24 miles Lost integrity, Half power, bad compression. also a clacking noise. (Presumed to be the gasket Flapping against the engine seams while exhaust blows out.)

My analasys: So far RTV seems to handle Fluids and seals, Quite well in low pressure environments. But RTV Seems to lose all seal integrity once it's exposed to the pressures of combustion.

I'll post again at 4 weeks for that Generator cover, It's just about the only thing I won't have to take off this weekend. (Already ordered all the Cap Gaskets and new bolts. ($63) 2-4 business shipping days.

I'll post again on here in a couple weeks about the generator casing.

[csmith12]

Did someone say improv gaskets. lololololo

I have made many from a Mt. Dew 12 pack box. Draw outline, cut with razor knife + rtv as needed.

I made one for a water pump on my dodge durango in 2003... it remains to this very day. Made a few for 4wheelers but nothing major but I would bet it would hold just the same.

Thanks for the info!

[f0r54ken]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Did someone say improv gaskets. lololololo

I have made many from a Mt. Dew 12 pack box. Draw outline, cut with razor knife + rtv as needed.

I made one for a water pump on my dodge durango in 2003... it remains to this very day. Made a few for 4wheelers but nothing major but I would bet it would hold just the same.

Thanks for the info!

Hey no problem! I know it's bad to not put on new gaskets. But if I did that at this point i would have spent about $300 additional dollars over the last 3 weeks! But there's no getting around that Engine cover/Hat on the top. My suggestion is an addition to the old adage "Don't Close your engine with the old gaskets" is "and don't close your engine until you are 100% sure you will NOT need to reopen it cause gaskets Are unusually/inappropriately expensive."

Of course nothing replaces the original. Honestly Once I know the parts Function right I'll likely Open that Generator Side up to put on the new Gasket. Works great as a quick fix for that oil bolt I tell you what. While I earn some money for the New Drain Cover Mod...

[f0r54ken]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Did someone say improv gaskets. lololololo

I have made many from a Mt. Dew 12 pack box. Draw outline, cut with razor knife + rtv as needed.

This made me Lol.

[Racer x]

I am poor. And I run my engines hard. Pure racing nitrous. High compression the works. I can't afford new gaskets. I wish I could. But my idea of a good gasket is a flat used up old gasket. Flat is good. A slight bow is OK . But a kink or wrinkle is not useable at all.

Once I find my used up old bowed gasket. I clean it really well. Then I scrub it with a scotch bright pad. Again not a new one . Some old brown or green one from some other project.

You must be very careful. It is easy to get carried away
And bend the gasket.
Once I have it all cleaned and scrubbed. I coat it with copper spray gasket. Just a light coat. I let that dry and then add additional costs. Maybe two or three will do it.
I do this for the head gasket and base gasket. Let it dry and then bolt the junk together.

Even under extream pressure it seems to hold. I have one engine that has been running for three seasons. Still does not leak. That is what I do. You should probably buy gaskets.

That is my secret gasket resume

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by f0r54ken

This made me Lol.

Hey... I am from KY, what did you expect?

Head gasket too Eric!!!! You are a brave soul.

[f0r54ken]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I am poor. And I run my engines hard. Pure racing nitrous. High compression the works. I can't afford new gaskets. I wish I could. But my idea of a good gasket is a flat used up old gasket. Flat is good. A slight bow is OK . But a kink or wrinkle is not useable at all.

Once I find my used up old bowed gasket. I clean it really well. Then I scrub it with a scotch bright pad. Again not a new one . Some old brown or green one from some other project.

You must be very careful. It is easy to get carried away
And bend the gasket.
Once I have it all cleaned and scrubbed. I coat it with copper spray gasket. Just a light coat. I let that dry and then add additional costs. Maybe two or three will do it.
I do this for the head gasket and base gasket. Let it dry and then bolt the junk together.

Even under extream pressure it seems to hold. I have one engine that has been running for three seasons. Still does not leak. That is what I do. You should probably buy gaskets.

That is my secret gasket resume

Hey I like it's that's pretty inventive. If you haven't copywritten the process, you should tutorial that on youtube. Lol

I mean the Most important part is results right? If it works, it works.
2 years is a Good run so far man. Good job on that

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I coat it with copper spray gasket. Just a light coat. I let that dry and then add additional costs. Maybe two or three will do it.
I do this for the head gasket and base gasket. Let it dry and then bolt the junk together.

I've done almost the same thing, but I use one coat of copper or alum. spray paint. Used it on my Z1R last time I put it together. I clean and spray and put it together before paint dries completely and have had good results, the bike has 10.5 to 1 domed pistons and detonates like crazy when hot and running 91 oct. pump gas. Been together for 7 years that way without a head gasket leak.

[Ghostt]

[MrAtom]

This is a good thread

[f0r54ken]

Haha you know I almost thought everyone would hate me for bringing it up, Homemade gaskets usually get you tar'd and feathered. lol

[Motofool]

Whenever you must re-use an aluminum or copper gasket or washer-seal, make it softer by heating it up (careful, aluminum melts quick) and cool it down in cold water.

When DIY gaskets using paper or manila file folder, a better seal is obtained if the oil is applied on both sides of the gasket before installation.

Silicon and gasoline don't get along.

[sh123469]

I have used cardboard head gaskets on several 2 strokes in the past. Never had one go bad. Make many of my own gaskets from drink boxes / folders and they all work great. The secret is take your time and make sure you cut it correctly. Make sure you open every little hole that is on the original. Since they are not sealed around the edges, you may find one that weeps a little sometimes.

[accumack]

You used to be able to buy gasket material at the auto parts store and make your own.

[spooph]

Originally Posted by accumack

You used to be able to buy gasket material at the auto parts store and make your own.

You still can.

I feel the need to point the differences in some of these "gaskets".

So the generator cover and water pump covers use a cardboard/cork type gasket. These are difficult to re-use as they tear easy when the covers are removed. However, I, and others have been able to pull them off super carefully and re-use. If you tear one and absolutely need to get the bike put back together that night, or you'll be opening it up again in the near future, scrap the gasket and use RTV.

The headgasket is metal and can be re-used as Eric/RacerX described.

The valve cover "gasket" is actually just a rubber seal, more akin to the rubber seals in forks than to either the paper/cork water pump type gasket or the metal head gasket.

The valve cover rubber seal can be visually inspected. If it doesn't have any cracks, it can be re-used and requires new RTV every time it's removed, especially under the thick half moon areas right next to the cams. This is described in Kawi's own factory service manual.

Let's talk a moment on the correct use of RTV - there are gasket makers, gasket sealers and glues (usually specialty gasket makers).

All 3 require slightly different pre-dry times before assembling the parts. A gasket maker for instance will have to be set out to dry until it's nearly completely dry. It shrinks as it dries, and become rubbery. It should be allowed to dry and then compressed by tightening the bolts. If slapped on and tightened immediately, it will be squished out dry in place, causing gaps and holes to form in the seal.

A gasket glue on the other hand needs to be applied wet, as the glue needs to wiggle it's way into the microscopic pores of the metal to form a bond. As it's designed to dry and cure in an enclosed space without air, if it's gooped on, it can take forever to dry if it's gooped on - creating a high risk of that RTV getting into other places of the engine before it cures, which can easily stop up a passage way.

This is a good RTV for the water pump seal:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...-gasket-detail

This is a good RTV for the generator cover and valve cover as it has to seal against oil instead of coolant and neither of those are very high pressure environments:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...t-maker-detail

This is a good head gasket sealant:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...sealant-detail

Since we're talking about RTV's, if you were to split the cases, this is the stuff you'd need:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...er-grey-detail

choosing the right RTV with the right ratings is imperative!

Just because it goes onto the engine doesn't mean it's needs to be rated to 600F, in fact, misapplying RTV in this case will leave a less pliable RTV, causing leaks.

Always choose the right tool for the right job, and if you have to substitute, compensate with research and learning, and never, ever, ever be in a hurry.

[f0r54ken]

Originally Posted by spooph

You still can.

I feel the need to point the differences in some of these "gaskets".

So the generator cover and water pump covers use a cardboard/cork type gasket. These are difficult to re-use as they tear easy when the covers are removed. However, I, and others have been able to pull them off super carefully and re-use. If you tear one and absolutely need to get the bike put back together that night, or you'll be opening it up again in the near future, scrap the gasket and use RTV.

The headgasket is metal and can be re-used as Eric/RacerX described.

The valve cover "gasket" is actually just a rubber seal, more akin to the rubber seals in forks than to either the paper/cork water pump type gasket or the metal head gasket.

The valve cover rubber seal can be visually inspected. If it doesn't have any cracks, it can be re-used and requires new RTV every time it's removed, especially under the thick half moon areas right next to the cams. This is described in Kawi's own factory service manual.

Let's talk a moment on the correct use of RTV - there are gasket makers, gasket sealers and glues (usually specialty gasket makers).

All 3 require slightly different pre-dry times before assembling the parts. A gasket maker for instance will have to be set out to dry until it's nearly completely dry. It shrinks as it dries, and become rubbery. It should be allowed to dry and then compressed by tightening the bolts. If slapped on and tightened immediately, it will be squished out dry in place, causing gaps and holes to form in the seal.

A gasket glue on the other hand needs to be applied wet, as the glue needs to wiggle it's way into the microscopic pores of the metal to form a bond. As it's designed to dry and cure in an enclosed space without air, if it's gooped on, it can take forever to dry if it's gooped on - creating a high risk of that RTV getting into other places of the engine before it cures, which can easily stop up a passage way.

This is a good RTV for the water pump seal:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...-gasket-detail

This is a good RTV for the generator cover and valve cover as it has to seal against oil instead of coolant and neither of those are very high pressure environments:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...t-maker-detail

This is a good head gasket sealant:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...sealant-detail

Since we're talking about RTV's, if you were to split the cases, this is the stuff you'd need:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...er-grey-detail

choosing the right RTV with the right ratings is imperative!

Just because it goes onto the engine doesn't mean it's needs to be rated to 600F, in fact, misapplying RTV in this case will leave a less pliable RTV, causing leaks.

Always choose the right tool for the right job, and if you have to substitute, compensate with research and learning, and never, ever, ever be in a hurry.

This is great intel. Thanks man