August 30th, 2017, 09:25 AM | #1 |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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MOTM - Oct '13
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Nice save, but maybe cool it on the throttle
Link to original page on YouTube.
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August 30th, 2017, 09:32 AM | #2 |
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Name: Nick
Location: NY
Join Date: Nov 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R and 2014 Triumph 675R Posts: A lot.
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My ears hurt just listening to it!
Good example of why to keep it on the track.
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August 30th, 2017, 09:38 AM | #3 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Wowzers...
This is where some solid track braking skills can save your bacon on the street. The vid shows he was going 85mph when the truck came into sight with about 200ft of pavement to work with. Anyone with decent track skills can come to a complete stop in that distance from that speed WITH room to spare. However it is the public road, he was out riding his vision, sounds like he locked the rear brake a bit too, but not sure. What he did well was see an opening/escape route and he used it. Lucky rider...
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August 30th, 2017, 09:50 AM | #4 | |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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Quote:
What about a stock Ninja 250R going that speed; do you think someone with developed braking skills could stop before reaching that lorry? I'm guessing that Honda is capable of being stopped quicker due to better front brakes and a fatter front tyre.
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August 30th, 2017, 09:53 AM | #5 |
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It would have been exciting, but it sure looks like there would have been time to haul it down instead of going off-road to avoid it.
I'm surprised he made it. Last futzed with by jkv45; August 30th, 2017 at 12:30 PM. Reason: typo |
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August 30th, 2017, 10:03 AM | #6 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
I googled some of the stopping distances for bikes from various speeds. I will admit, at this point... I don't put must stock in those graphs. I know for FACT... you can go from 145mph to 15mph in 300ft. It's that scary type of braking, but can be done. Just takes practice.
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August 30th, 2017, 10:12 AM | #7 |
Cat herder
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This is exactly what track days are for. So you can experience riding at that kind of pace without the untidy and inconvenient prospect of decapitation.
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August 30th, 2017, 10:15 AM | #8 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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August 30th, 2017, 10:39 AM | #9 |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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@csmith12 - Thanks for your response.
I like to practise coming to a quick stop on many of my rides. I do it to train myself and to make sure the brakes are working well, should I actually need them. I check around me to make sure there's no one else on the road, bring up my speed and then stop as fast as I can. When I do this I can usually hear my front tyre chirping. I'm guessing it does this as it slightly loses and regains traction on the uneven road surface. My questions: 1. Is it a good or a bad sign that my front tyre chirps? IE Am I braking like a boss to bring it to that point or am I braking too hard and it's not optimal to have these tiny loses of traction as I come to a stop? 2. I already know to use my legs on the tank to stop my body weight going onto the bars. Is there any other small tip you can offer me to handle my weight better while braking. For instance: should I aim to have my weight central between the two wheels or should I be aiming to have it slightly further forward or back on the bike?
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August 30th, 2017, 10:59 AM | #10 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
Question 2. It is always best to have you body weight to support your throttle roll as the corner demands. For example; you need to roll throughout the corner, but then see a lorry... Your body weight is already 60/40 on the rear (seated further back), when you need to get stupid hard on the brakes, your body position is already in the most helpful position to balance out the weight transfer to "ridiculous" hard on the front. This seating/body position will also support easier reduction of lean angle to max brake even harder as needed, just as this rider did in the vid. Which is another thing he did well. Also, you CAN keep both knees on the tank during braking despite your hang off seating position. When the turn point comes, then all you have to do is relax your knee out leg. The benefit to this is, if you need to late brake hard... you still have both knees on the tank for max control. The only other option is to do the Rossi leg dangle for added theatrics... hahahahhahahaha If you are going down, go down in style. EDIT: I don't really mean that in a silly way, I am saying always work hard to find a positive in a negative. All too often we focus on the negative and fail to learn. :\
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August 30th, 2017, 11:24 AM | #11 |
Cat herder
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Small item you probably already know, but worth mentioning while talking about emergency braking:
Squeeze, then SQUEEZE. In other words, don't grab all of the brake at once. Load the front to squish out the contact patch and make it bigger, then really get into it. That gives you maximum traction. If you grab the brake too aggressively, you can break traction and lose the front. This can happen very fast, but should be deliberate.
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August 30th, 2017, 11:25 AM | #12 |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
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Thanks Chris. That's a really awesome response. It has raised one more question for me though. I've heard some riders here mention that the 250R isn't that well balanced; that it has too much weight on the rear wheel in the standard riding position (I think maybe Alex.S said this). Couple that with the fact that throttle roll on during a corner can put a lot less force on the rear wheel and suspension that, say, a 600 SS could, makes me wonder: does the 60/40 weight thing apply on a 250R?
I haven't ridden that many bikes, so I'm not a great judge of this, but if I sit back on the seat the front end on my 250R does feel light to me.
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August 30th, 2017, 11:29 AM | #13 | |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
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Quote:
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August 30th, 2017, 11:35 AM | #14 |
Cat herder
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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August 30th, 2017, 11:53 AM | #15 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Of course it does... but lets help you with your question.
Which tire is bigger? Which tire can handle more of the traction load? What tool(s) (bike inputs) have the most dramatic effect on weight distro? One of those inputs puts the weight on the front, the other can move it front/aft at will. Sorry, I spelled tyre wrong.
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August 30th, 2017, 12:18 PM | #16 | |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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Quote:
My thought is: * the ninja 250R is already biased towards weight on the rear (I think) * the throttle is far less able to transfer weight the rear * ... * uh * oh yeah * those two things kinda cancel each other out OK, I'm wondering now whether the clever folks at Kawasaki created the weight imbalance on purpose.
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August 30th, 2017, 01:40 PM | #17 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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My 250 seems pretty well front-rear balanced to me. If I brake as hard as possible with my BT45 tires, I can just get the rear wheel off the ground a little, once I have the front end compressed good.
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August 30th, 2017, 02:30 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I'd agree that rider was outriding his visual distance and braking was probably his best option. I know I've had a few times when I've been glad I'm reasonably good at braking. Going up on that bridge edge looked frightening.
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August 30th, 2017, 02:36 PM | #19 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Driving my Vega on the DC Beltway in the left lane many years ago, the traffic in front of me came to a sudden stop. Having left enough following distance, I stopped in time to avoid the car in front of me, but it was a hard stop. I looked in the mirror to see how the guy behind me was doing, and watched him swerve to the left shoulder to miss me. He did what the motorcycle rider did, but the car was not so narrow, so the ramp-like concrete railing support lifted the left side of his car, and it was deposited in the lane behind me on its roof, sliding down the road and slowly rotating. The guy was wearing his seat belt, and I could see his face through the windshield. It had a very excited look on it. No cars crashed and he slid safely to a stop, still hanging upside down.
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August 30th, 2017, 02:40 PM | #20 | |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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Quote:
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August 30th, 2017, 02:53 PM | #21 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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It was surreal seeing that happen behind me, that's for sure.
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August 30th, 2017, 02:57 PM | #22 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
Honda - pretty good/damn good at everything, master of none but with the right rider, a deadly foe Yami - Awesome as long as the front stays stable, 100% ride in anger Suzuki - Awesome as long as the rear stays stable, lower the front, raise the rear (in general), get back to the throttle early and live happy! Triumph - Similar to honda, but when sh*t hits the fan, go yami style and carry corner speed Bimmer - Just let electronics figger it out lol, ham fist it... the bike's got dis Aprilia - Sick arse bikes!!!!! Throttle control or electronics will be your friend - sum b*tches eat tires for breakfast KTM/Ducati - Ride it like a tractor, hahahahahhahahahaha, ham fist it on exit or go home... rear slides and rear spin ups are no biggy, stay on the gas Kawi - Balanced front to rear but you have to "ride it in anger and figger it out from there, because it can go either way. Have a racer check your throttle, it's most likely effed up Harley - your kidding right? To address your concern, the Kawi's should be pretty balanced front and rear or you got hardware/bike setup to address. The exception to this rule are riders that give 0 fuks... they will ride anything fast. Kids somewhat fit into this category because they don't know. PS; please don't take some of those ham fist comments seriously, they are meant to be a joke... somewhat. At higher levels of riding skill, it's kinda spot on.
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August 30th, 2017, 03:45 PM | #23 |
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That had to be a kid. Anyone with a few years of riding like an idiot under their belt would have hit the rear brake, slide the bike under the truck, used their knee to pop back up, shown proper finger to the driver, and sped away like the mad demon he was.
Skills people, seriously, you have to develop proper skills!
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August 30th, 2017, 05:23 PM | #24 | |
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Quote:
Bill
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August 30th, 2017, 07:46 PM | #25 |
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Ugh, out riding his skill is bad enough but on public roads? Imagine how horrible the person he almost hit would've felt if he hadn't squeezed by. Not their fault if he had but...
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August 30th, 2017, 08:28 PM | #26 |
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On the topic of braking:
I'm not so sure I'd recommend this if you're not willing to take a low-speed spill, but I've taken my bike to a large parking lot and intentionally tried to lock up the tires (something I used to do with unfamiliar cars to get a feel for them. I know how to get that from just driving them now). It's not only scary, but it's downright IMPRESSIVE how quickly things can go wrong with a locked up front. A locked rear is usually manageable enough (still, I don't like when it happens). You can squeeze the absolute CRAP out of your front brake, as long as the force is applied gradually. Finding how quickly you can still do it while still being gradual is the tricky part. I'm not a track dude yet, but plenty of braking practice has served me well. |
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August 30th, 2017, 09:13 PM | #27 |
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we assume he had plenty of time, all my camera's make things look far away and about half the speed your actually traveling, maybe this is the case also.
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August 30th, 2017, 09:53 PM | #28 |
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Yeah, I think it was closer to 120ft to the truck when he saw it.
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August 30th, 2017, 10:44 PM | #29 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Yes, when I'm practicing hard stops on the 250, at the end I have my legs out and I'm ready to catch the bike if the front wheel locks, but if things go well, the rear wheel just lifts a little.
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August 31st, 2017, 04:07 AM | #30 |
Nooblet
Name: Akima
Location: England
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Personally I wouldn't feel bad if I was the truck driver. The truck driver didn't do anything wrong. I'd probably feel annoyed that the guy damaged the side of my truck and wasted my morning. I'd bite my tongue though and just try to comfort the rider and look after him while we wait for an ambulance to arrive.
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August 31st, 2017, 04:34 PM | #32 |
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If I was lorry driver and he crashed into me, I'd hop out and kick him while he's down!!!
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