What Gear Should I be in?

[Darkspy72]

I have seen tons of post circling the question I have but few to none that actually ask/answer it. So:

How do you personally decide which gear to take a corner in? Assume mostly flat not drastically uphill or down (unless you want to share but if so specify). Do you aim for a certain RPM? If so what? A particular RPM depending on the speed? Will the radius of the turn affect your decision? What about more or less lean? inconsequential? Going through a turn of course will add RPM with lean, and you'll add more with the acceleration through. Do you leave room for that addition? If so how much? Do you aim to hit the sweet spot as you enter as you exit or somewhere inbetween? Are there other rules that govern your choice as you approach or do you look for a certain feel?

Note: a lot of these questions assume that you don't answer by saying "X changes your speed, and your speed changes your gear." That's obvious. I'm asking for direct correlations even if they are slight.

Some of these questions I know what I do but am interested in other peoples' responses. Others I just don't know yet. Thanks.

[Alex]

No perfect answer. Only advice I can share is that the engine shouldn't be screaming, and shouldn't be lugging. So the revs can't be so high that you're likely to need to upshift while still accelerating out of the corner. And shouldn't be so low that any throttle input you apply while in the corner does nothing to affect the attitude of the bike because there is too little torque. On the ninjette, that means I'd like to be within 6k and 9k for most corners, as it provides room on either end.

[flynjay]

If i'm on a spirited ride I'll hit the corners at 8-9K.

Normal riding ~6K is as low as I like to enter corners. Anything lower and you'll be lugging the motor.

[ninjamunky85]

Too many questions to answer in on post.

As far as "what gear should you be in?" it could be any but probably 2nd to 5th mattering on the turn. RPM's could be 4-10k

It all matters about what kind of turn it is and what you're trying to do, even I'm not going balls out all the time.

These thing really come down more to feel. I suggest checking out some instructional videos or books, and then get out there and ride.

[alex.s]

dainese

[hirubhaiambani]

I don't really check the gear or rpm's. Mainly because conditions vary esp. road conditions, traffic and also depends on how familiar I am with the road...

If I feel the bike ain't happy with the gear/rpm's while entering the corner, then I might downshift or upshift depending on the situation.

I go with the feel and try to improve my skills (gauging entry speed, taking the right line through the curve ...etc) by not really looking at the instrument cluster.. Not sure if this is the right way to do it… because personally I feel you can get knowledge about how to be a better rider from reading textbooks….but there is no real substitute for real world experience and your application of the textbook knowledge during those 'oops' moments

[csmith12]

You should watch TOTW2. All your questions are answered where they cover the "11 factors that are effected by your turn in point". Do yourself a favor and watch it.

If you need the links to the youtube vids, lemme know and I will link them.

[bdavison]

What ever gear puts me right at 7500RPM's so that when I do my roll-on, its passing through the powerband as I'm increasing throttle.

You have to learn your bike, and what gear for what speed. It varies...there is no one size fits all gear for corners.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by hirubhaiambani

I don't really check the gear or rpm's. Mainly because conditions vary esp. road conditions, traffic and also depends on how familiar I am with the road...

If I feel the bike ain't happy with the gear/rpm's while entering the corner, then I might downshift or upshift depending on the situation.

I go with the feel and try to improve my skills (gauging entry speed, taking the right line through the curve ...etc) by not really looking at the instrument cluster.. Not sure if this is the right way to do it… because personally I feel you can get knowledge about how to be a better rider from reading textbooks….but there is no real substitute for real world experience and your application of the textbook knowledge during those 'oops' moments

Great advice. Happy bike equals happy rider, and vice versa.

[bdavison]

There is no downshift while leaned over for me....only upshifts. Too easy to disrupt the suspension or traction with downshifts. Downshifts happen PRIOR to the actual turn.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Darkspy72

.........Going through a turn of course will add RPM with lean, and you'll add more with the acceleration through.........

Actually, leaning the bike keeps rpm constant and slows the bike down.

The proper acceleration rate should be 0.1~0.2 g, which means gaining 2.2~4.4 mph each second during the turn.

Smoothness is way more important than rpms':

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=540

[Z300]

Keep riding and you will know mostly by the engine " the engine shouldn't be screaming, and shouldn't be lugging" keep riding you will develop the skills

[Jim Moore]

If you're riding enthusiastically you should shoot for the upper third of the rpm range. If you're on the track you should pick a gear that allows you to hit red line at just about the point where you hit the rumble strips on the outside of the track after the turn.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

dainese

$1400 worth?

[Darkspy72]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Like I said I all ready have a turn process but It's the area I'm trying to hone right now and the info is really helping me pinpoint where I need to be. It's helpful to know what other people do. In response to some things:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Actually, leaning the bike keeps rpm constant and slows the bike down.

The proper acceleration rate should be 0.1~0.2 g, which means gaining 2.2~4.4 mph each second during the turn.

Smoothness is way more important than rpms':

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=540

I am reading TOTW2 and according to him when you lean over you decrease the radius of the wheel which in turn increases RPM's. about 500RPM on average lean the man says.

Originally Posted by csmith12

You should watch TOTW2. All your questions are answered where they cover the "11 factors that are effected by your turn in point". Do yourself a favor and watch it.

If you need the links to the youtube vids, lemme know and I will link them.

Like I said I'm reading it. Even specifically looked for this question, but they don't have the section you mentioned listed in the index. I've looked for the video because I think it would be way more helpful. I love to read but there is so much that would be much better to see. Anyway it appears that Keith has had YouTube remove them all. All I can find is interviews, ads, and reviews on it. If you can find the actually video links I would be very grateful.

Also I suppose I should answer the question too:

I try to aim for at least 6K right at the roll on but often come in low due to last second braking. I NEVER shift inside a turn. I was under the impression that removing power from the back wheel in a turn could be very bad. Is it ok if you powershift? So far I've seen no reason to facter in radius, lean, or the like directly into the actual gear choice. Speed is king. Also as some have said, once I'm in the turn I can't look away from the road and have to go by feel. I check my RPM on exit and it never adds what I think it should which probably means I need to hit a higher RPM on entry. I almost always try to aim for at least a quarter turn throttle through the turns.

[csmith12]

You can watch it here, starting at part 4, 12:00 minutes in and lasts until near the end of the part 6. Pay special attention to the downshifting portion of part 6 as it directly addresses your questions.

I personally think you have asked the questions in a backward kinda way. Which makes it harder to get a complete answer. Sometimes to get a good answer, you have to rewrite/rethink the question a little.

So far, the best piece of info you have received in this thread is "a happy bike equals a happy rider". But that doesn't tell you how to get a happy bike now does it? You get a happy bike by; setting your turn in point, turn in speed and setting a line through the corner that allows for good throttle control and working suspension.

If you can get your turn in point, entry speed and line right AND you know how to get the most power out of your 250, that tells you what gear you should be in for any given corner. After some time, a rider can feel and learn the sound of 8k and above on their 250. This keeps their focus on whats ahead by keeping their eyes on the road and their reference points.

What the video doesn't cover is how to get the most out of your 250. Everyone here knows that if you want any power and drive out of a corner, the rpms must be at/above 8k on entry. So as you downshift for any given corner, find the gear that gives you about 8k on entry, while sticking to the other cornering guidelines as well.

[aggressive riding.... not for street]
And.... while less than WOT may be a good roll for a specific corner, if the tire has the traction and the road surface has the grip, it's fairly common to "pin it" at the apex on a 250.
[/aggressive riding]

Watch the video and if anything is unclear, feel free to ask more questions and we will do our best to help out.

Hey.... Missed you at Putnam on the 23rd. Hope all is well.

[flynjay]

6K is a little low to aim for, if you undershoot you will have no power in the turn. Aiming for 7K should work better for you.

You really shouldn't shift in a turn, but it's not the end of the world if you do. I would do a regular shift before trying a power shift in a turn. Abrupt changes are an absolute negative while leaned over, recipe for a lowside.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Darkspy72

...I am reading TOTW2 and according to him when you lean over you decrease the radius of the wheel which in turn increases RPM's. about 500RPM on average lean the man says.

Note that Code is describing a special case, for Turn One at Brainerd International Raceway, which is "a narrow but very high-speed banked right-hand 60-degree turn, which is intended be taken flat out by all vehicles."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainer...tional_Raceway

Those 500 rpm increment in an engine that was at max 13,000 rpm before entering that curve with all its available momentum is just a 4%, enough to cut the engine off and create problems for that specific turn.

I believe that your question is about a regular turn, for which you slow down and select an entry speed and entry rpm.

Yes, when banked, the engine naturally picks up some rpm and the bike slows down, unless you feed more gas to keep a constant speed (an extra increment in rpms').

Your entry rpm should be low enough to accommodate those increments, plus the sustained acceleration for weight distribution, without hitting the redline at the exit of the turn.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

without hitting the redline at the exit of the turn

where is the fun in that?!?!?!?!

hahahahaha jk yo

[alex.s]

Pin it to win it yall

[Jiggles]

ATGIEC

[nycsteve]

Originally Posted by bdavison

what ever gear puts me right at 7500rpm's so that when i do my roll-on, its passing through the powerband as i'm increasing throttle.

You have to learn your bike, and what gear for what speed. It varies...there is no one size fits all gear for corners.

this.

[Darkspy72]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I took my brother to the twisties last night after work. His first ride there despite riding about a year longer than me. Being so used to keeping the bike in really low RPMs (probably still mindstuck from the break-in) running it in 7-10 felt all wrong, but the power difference was undeniable. Laying on the gas really yanks me through the turn now. So thanks for that. I still have to watch the TOTW2. I would do it during lunch but my computer at work doesn't have sound

PS - to CSmith12, Yeah I was sorry about the 23rd. Something came up at the last minute. My guess is you won't be out there again this year with the weather. Let me know when you do though.

[csmith12]

np good sir, there is always next season