February 10th, 2013, 01:59 PM | #41 | |
Knee-dragger in Training
Name: Manny
Location: Buford, GA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R (Sunbeam Red) Posts: 319
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Quote:
As others have also stated, when you apply braking resistance to the front the weight of the bike moves forward which gives the rear tire less traction. This means you would need to apply less braking pressure on the rear while you're braking with the front. So the maximum amount of pressure applied to either before the tire locks are in fact at least partially dependent of the force applied on either at any given time. The best way, in my opinion, to adjust for this issue is to apply the front brakes first. Particularly in hard/panic stops. The easiest way for you to do this Yakaru would be to "cover" the front bakes as much as you can allowing you to react to them first thing. Maybe look into the Throttle Cable Zip Tie Mod. If your wrist travels a smaller distance away from the brake lever during normal throttle control it should help you cover it easier. |
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February 10th, 2013, 02:06 PM | #42 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
This safety topic may shed some light on your issue. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 10th, 2013, 02:11 PM | #43 |
Daily Ninjette rider
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It is just me, or this is an improper way to talk to a lady?
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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February 10th, 2013, 02:20 PM | #44 |
antiant
Name: antiant
Location: Cali
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Nope, it's not just you. When someone is asking for help, it's a little disconcerting to get that type of response, whether male or female. It also makes someone hesitant to ask another question and get the help they need in the future.
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February 10th, 2013, 02:44 PM | #45 | |
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It should be okay for not cramping. |
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February 10th, 2013, 02:52 PM | #46 |
Done here.
Name: -
Location: Track
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
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You don't have to avoid the rear brake. You have to avoid slamming it.
Ways to avoid slamming it: A) Don't f*cking slam it. B) Shave your rear brake pads. C) Shave your rear rotor D) Adjust your rear brake on your rear set so that you have to really reach to the pedal to apply brakes (as opposed to having it right up your foot) E) Install a heavy spring on the lever so that it has more resistance. F) Don't f*cking slam it. Take your pick! |
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February 10th, 2013, 03:07 PM | #47 |
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^^ D is a pretty good option as well. Pardon Gurk's vibrant language
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February 10th, 2013, 03:31 PM | #48 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
That is something on which Keith Code insists a lot, developing super-fine control on the throttle and front brake, the two more powerful and dramatic controls. This video shows how to perform the important adjustment of suiting your bike to your body and making riding more enjoyable and safe:
Link to original page on YouTube.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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February 10th, 2013, 03:51 PM | #49 |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
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Thanks for the responses guys, I was feeling like a real bitch earlier for kind of dismissing it :P
I'm definitely going to try some of these things -- btw: how do you adjust the brake pedal? I have adjusted my shifter but it doesn't look to have the same options. I'll try riding more with the front brake covered too; it may just be a 'growing pain' sort of thing where once I get used to it then it won't be as awkward. The upshot is that I've only locked my rear 2 times (once in my accident and once in a panic stop that I immediately chastised myself for) -- but it's one of those things that I can always feel I'm on the verge of doing and I don't want to have a 'shoulda woulda coulda' in the hospital one day. I'm getting better at it every time I practice though. In fact, I may go freak the loading dock people at the grocery store out and go do some more drills today. :P (btw: best place to practice I have found is behind big grocery/department stores. Long straightaways with no traffic) |
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February 10th, 2013, 04:20 PM | #50 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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You can move the brake pedal position up or down about 1.5 inches by adjusting the clevis on the brake pedal arm, however the amount of force produced by the brake assembly is not reduced.
You are in control of the amount of force applied to the pedal. The stock pads on the rear are the same as on the front. Replacing the rear pads with some organic ones will have a tad less stopping power and will not be prone to lock up as easy as the stock pads, however with enough force they will. This may help you mentally knowing you can get on the rear brake early and not lock up until the last second or two with the same amount of force you are used to applying. |
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February 10th, 2013, 05:17 PM | #51 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I don't know why no one else didn't say this. It's so obvious. Well said. You get a good doobie award for higher intelligence and creative thinking.
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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February 11th, 2013, 09:27 AM | #52 |
Bass Master General
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Get bent! When numerous people take their time to respond with help to a persons question to receive a rude response back from that person I am more than entitled to feel agreeved for the lack of gratitude for me giving up my time for free. And where did sexism come into this? I treat everyone equal, I don't reserve language for man nor woman nor child, it's exactly this form of positive sexism that is the remnant of an archaic society that needs to die before we can reach true gender equality.
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February 11th, 2013, 09:53 AM | #53 | |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Don't want to see this turn into bickering, so everybody be nice okays? That goes for me too. Last futzed with by Yakaru; February 11th, 2013 at 11:01 AM. Reason: grammar has I. |
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February 11th, 2013, 09:58 AM | #54 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Where is the "wazoo" located?
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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February 11th, 2013, 10:52 AM | #55 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: NJ
Location: Westchester, NY
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 250R (Sold); 2012 Vulcan 900; 2009 Harley Iron 883; 2004 SV650s; and a bunch of others over the years... Posts: 470
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We spend so much time and money on farkles as noobs I don't think there is enough emphasis on performance mods like stainless lines, upgraded pads, and supspension fine tuning. I have been guilty of this with both my bikes. Never modded my 250's brakes, and put 5000 miles on my SV with worn pads and crappy OEM lines. Never realized that for $120 total I could do stainless front brake lines and new pads. Cheap and easy DIY mods and my brake performance is VASTLY improved and confidence inspiring (suspension tuning next).
Maybe I missed the message early on but we should encourage more noobs to become intimately familiar with their brake and suspension internals. I always thought those issues were for track junkies but they can save your skin on the streets. My 2c |
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February 11th, 2013, 11:08 AM | #56 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold) Posts: A lot.
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February 11th, 2013, 11:30 AM | #57 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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thread tl;dr. the correct braking procedure depends entirely on road surface condition. high traction means high braking forces which mean front only with maybe some engine brake. why? because you have enough traction your front wheel can do so much braking that your rear wheel is useless. (read: off the ground) low traction means low braking forces spread over both brakes 80/20. why? low traction means you can't apply the same kind of forces against the road without sliding, so less force spread over more tires means you're less likely to slide.
but chances are, 9 out of 10 times when people panic brake, they really didn't need to brake at all.
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February 11th, 2013, 11:31 AM | #58 | |
antiant
Name: antiant
Location: Cali
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): None Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '14
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Quote:
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February 11th, 2013, 11:35 AM | #59 | |
Bass Master General
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February 11th, 2013, 12:17 PM | #60 | ||
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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You may have the right to feel your good effort unappreciated, but nothing gives you the right to be rude. Quote:
Hope the new advanced society reach better achievements than us, regarding rights and opportunities for both sexes and anything trapped in-between. However, good manners make human relations easier and better, and they have nothing to do with social rights. Courtesy toward women is much more than that; it is a form to express our appreciation for all the good they do in this world, for the children we wouldn't be able to have without their maternal instinct. "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use.' - Emily Post
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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February 11th, 2013, 02:14 PM | #62 | |
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Quote:
The best part is suspension changes don't break the bank. EX500 springs are great (and cheap) for light riders (I suggest searching other OEM bike parts if you need a higher spring rate to save money), and basic SS lines can be had for ~$50. Fork oil is ~$10/bottle, PVC (for fork spacers) is ~$2.50 for 2 feet, and adjusting your rear preload is free. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 11th, 2013, 02:17 PM | #63 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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if you dont want to lock up the tires, don't get fancy brakes. get crappy brakes that don't work... you'll never lock them up!
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February 11th, 2013, 04:21 PM | #64 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
On the street if I'm riding fast(I really should be going this fast) I don't use the rear brake unless I believe the situation has a chance of entering FUBAR status. I think this has happened once when my rear tire whent down to cords. If I'm riding normal street speed(still faster then most) I use my rear brake occasionally to scrub speed mid corner because I'm probably much lower in the RPMs then when going fast and have less engine braking to work with. But it's a very light application of rear brake when I do. Riding in the street during rain or wet roads I use the rear brake lightly about 40% of the time. And I'd say it results in only 20% of the braking force. When Racing in the rain I still don't used the rear brake but on a track you can plan ahead with entry speed so no adjustment to corner speed are needed. This is what works for me and my style is always adapting and everchanging to conditions and equipment. Even among racers I'm a bit of an odity so my style dosn't work for everyone. My ideal motorcycle would be a high compression ducati with no slipper clutch |
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February 11th, 2013, 04:31 PM | #65 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
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Quote:
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February 11th, 2013, 05:04 PM | #66 |
Done here.
Name: -
Location: Track
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
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February 11th, 2013, 10:01 PM | #67 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: Chicago
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: 156
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I may get ridiculed for this one....but does anyone else purposefully lock up their rear brake while coming to a stop? I do it occasionally when there isn't really anyone else around.
Somehow I've convinced myself that by practicing this, I will be more accustomed to how the bike will react in different situations. Plus, it's just kinda fun! But I've never ever seen anyone else on a street bike doing the same thing, so maybe I'm just an oddball. i dunno (full disclosure - I've only got about 7k miles of riding experience)
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February 11th, 2013, 11:52 PM | #68 |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
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Folky: You're probably risking your tire lifespan; I got some nasty road wear in my tires from just one [admitably nasty] lockup. Plus you'll stop faster if you don't lock it up, and be more in control.
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February 12th, 2013, 12:54 AM | #69 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
You'll probably have less of a brown trouser moment if you have a rear slide, I've had a few slides in wet weather, you don't have time to think, it's a gut instinct or muscle memory reaction. |
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February 12th, 2013, 05:22 AM | #70 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: NJ
Location: Westchester, NY
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 250R (Sold); 2012 Vulcan 900; 2009 Harley Iron 883; 2004 SV650s; and a bunch of others over the years... Posts: 470
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I do it too. Usually early on in my morning commute. It's my way of testing how warm my tires are so that I now how much traction I have when I hit the parkway. Not a major slide, just maybe the last 5 feet of a stop.
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February 12th, 2013, 05:40 AM | #71 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I have deliberately locked the rears when its wet just to test the road conditions when moving slow.
Regarding Jiggles latest accident, the correct action seems like it should have been to not hit either brake and to just switch lanes. The lane to the right didn't look like there was anything there. You can also get out of a fishtail rear slide and then re-apply the brakes correctly, but only if you do it properly. You have to time the release of your brakes when the bike is perfectly straight inline. So the farther out of alignment the bike is when you release the brakes, the more likely you will high side and get killed.
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February 12th, 2013, 08:01 AM | #72 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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The only time you really need good rear braking skills is when escaping from the Red and Blue gang members in a tight city setting.
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February 12th, 2013, 08:49 AM | #73 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Rear brake, trackday, off track riding. Other than that, you're riding over your head.
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February 13th, 2013, 10:23 PM | #74 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Andrei
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250, 2008 Daytona 675 Posts: 212
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Quote:
Loosen the bolt holding the front brake assembly to the clipon, rotate the whole thing down until it's in position that's comfortable for you to be able to hold the throttle with your thumb and ring/pinkie fingers. On the street I always cover brake with 2 fingers and throttle with 3 (actually it's more of a base of the thumb, where it meets the palm). You will NOT lose "fine" control over throttle (it's a 250...what fine control? ). If you find not being able to hold on to the throttle, get grippier throttle tubes like Renthal diamond grips for $15. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
February 15th, 2013, 09:03 AM | #75 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tip...ing_potential/
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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February 15th, 2013, 09:30 AM | #76 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Not that I have a problem with covering the brake while riding on the street but why don't they teach this during the MSF?
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February 15th, 2013, 09:50 AM | #77 | ||
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Quote:
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February 15th, 2013, 10:01 AM | #78 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
they tell you to cover the clutch, though. maybe its so the new riders don't get to snatch the brakes. has anyone taken the advanced course?
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February 15th, 2013, 10:04 AM | #79 |
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February 15th, 2013, 10:09 AM | #80 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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after much thought, you convinced me.
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