Short rider; Heavy bike. tips?

[Yakaru]

Hey Ninjette,

This post is more directed to Zero, my S1000RR, but honestly you give better advice than most any forum so :P

I'm tiny and short, so the S1000 is a bit of a beast for me to work with. At speed it's no problem but when I'm at a stop or extremely low speed things get precarious fast.

I've dealt with this every way I feel is valid: I got my boots soles made thicker and use a wedge insert. I've had the seat re-sculpted to be thinner. I've adjusted the pegs and foot controls. I'm not interested in lowering the bike.

The only thing I've got left is technique and strength training. The second I'm doing but hoping not to rely on, so does anyone have hints on the first? Or anything I missed that might help?

[Alex]

Seems there are 3 different (but related) scenarios; not sure which one(s) you are focusing on.

1 - Bike is stopped, sitting on bike, how do I keep it from falling over
2 - Bike is stopped, sitting on bike, but want to move the bike around manually forward/back
3 - Bike is going low speeds, feel like I want to put my foot out to brace, but wouldn't have strength to make a difference


First off, the easy one to describe is #3. Don't do that, ever. There is never a need. I've had to put my foot out on a bike to touch the ground when it was moving 2 or 3 times over hundreds of thousands of miles, and it was likely a mistake those times. Anything you are doing to catch the bike would be better served with throttle, brake, and/or steering inputs. It doesn't matter that your feet don't touch the ground. They shouldn't.

For #2, there are limits. If the bike is tall enough that one's inseam isn't long enough, there's no magic. If you can't put enough leverage through your feet into the ground, you can't back the bike up, and you might not have enough leverage to move the bike forward strongly as well. I'm in this situation on my RT; I have the seat set up so it's comfortable when riding, but boot heels don't come close to touching down on both sides of the bike. If I need to back the bike up almost any grade at all; I need to get off the bike and pull it backwards.

For #1 - it's just timing and experience. You need to know when you're coming to a stop, have a plan for where you are going to stop the bike, know when/where you're going to put your foot down, and then just do it. It's OK to lean the bike over a bit at that point, even the heaviest bikes aren't heavy until they lean over too far, so you just can't let it get that far. This can go wrong if you stop in a spot that you didn't realize is slanted, or if your footing slips, but the latter can happen to anybody anyway.

[csmith12]

A few things...

#1 your letting the size and weight of the bike be greater than your confidence to control it. There is a saying... mind of matter, start to believe it! The more you think you can't do it, the more often you won't.

Some suggestions;
Slide off the seat a bit just before you stop.
Just at the moment of stop where you are 1mph or less, turn the bars just a bit to cause the bike to fall on the side of your preference.
Once at a stop, turn the bars into the lean, the front wheel with then take some of the weight of the bike (requires holding the front brake at a stop though, especially if you use the next tip).
Use the surface to your advantage. If the road has a crown in the center or cambered AND it doesn't compromise your safety, then use it (put your foot down on the crown/high side) to give you an inch or more of reach.

[Yakaru]

The two situations that have gotten me in trouble:

1. I'm on the kick stand and need to 'push' the bike upright so I can put it up. My right foot is no where near the ground. I push off, I want to have the confidence I'll catch the bike in a stable way.

2. I'm at extremely low speed doing some precision maneuvering and I lose traction or something surprises me and I want to put my feet down/stop; I stop the bike, my foot hits the ground, but the bike is at a bigger angle than I expected and I can't pull it back up given the leverage (which quickly results in a soft drop. Thank goodness for frame/fairing protectors).

[tfkrocks]

It's really all just technique and avoiding those situations altogether. The rear brake is your friend at low speeds. As far as actually stopping, it's all about planning the stops. Always stop on the same side. Use the terrain. Slide your butt to one side. There's really not much you can do once the bike tips in a direction you weren't ready for or you just go past the point of no return though.

I only have one foot down at a time on both the Ninja 300 and the FZ-09. I've definitely improved on the slow speed stuff over the years but once in a while I still doing something boneheaded and there's really no stopping the bike from going down when you're just that short. I still drop my bike occasionally but far less than I did before. **** happens. Life moves on.

As far as pushing the bike upright from the kickstand, I've honestly never pushed up so hard that the bike tipped in the other direction. It's more likely that I don't push hard enough to get it upright. I guess it's just knowing your bike and having the muscle memory.

[Yakaru]

Yep, I'm totally a one footer all the time. It's easy peasy on the Ninjette -- less because of the seat height and more because the weight is so much lower which just sort of inspires confidence (at least for me).

[adouglas]

Become a pro racer so you have a pit crew to catch the bike every time.

Hey, it works for Dani Pedrosa....

[jkv45]

I would say there are always going to be situations where you could get into trouble, but working on developing the highest level of balance is going to help every time you stop.

Practice coming to a complete stop without putting your feet down as much as possible.

Once the bike gets to a certain angle it's going to exceed the strength you have to bring it back up, so all you can do is try to avoid getting into that range.

[CaliGrrl]

http://www.gearchic.com/blog/2016/8/6/why-motorcycle-seat-heights-are-overrated

Sounds like you've got a good start on things, but I liked the blog piece on being a short rider.

[allanoue]

Maybe try putting the kickstand up before mounting. I have seen videos of extremely vertically changed riders doing this.

[verboten1]

I can't touch the ground on my Ténéré. I actually ride with my feet dangling as one of my "holy crap, I'm still on this thing?" positions. When I stop, I have to let the bike lean to one side just a bit. This is a 600 pound bike before I load it with my gear. I ride this thing off road at times. I just have to plan what I'm doing. I don't maneuver it while sitting on the bike, I'll always walk it.

Even still, it doesn't always work.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Maybe try putting the kickstand up before mounting. I have seen videos of extremely vertically changed riders doing this.

That feels way more terrifying to me

[Triple Jim]

With all due respect, if a motorcycle feels too big and heavy, it might be. Little bikes are the most fun. It took me 30 years of riding to realize that. Here's a shot of me, a 6'2" guy on my somewhat modified Yamaha DT100, which is truly one of the most fun motorcycles I've ever ridden in the twisties.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Yakaru

The two situations that have gotten me in trouble:

1. I'm on the kick stand and need to 'push' the bike upright so I can put it up. My right foot is no where near the ground. I push off, I want to have the confidence I'll catch the bike in a stable way.

2. I'm at extremely low speed doing some precision maneuvering and I lose traction or something surprises me and I want to put my feet down/stop; I stop the bike, my foot hits the ground, but the bike is at a bigger angle than I expected and I can't pull it back up given the leverage (which quickly results in a soft drop. Thank goodness for frame/fairing protectors).

Sorry, I cannot understand #1.
For #2, reading this may help:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...240#post617240

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Yakaru

The two situations that have gotten me in trouble:

1. I'm on the kick stand and need to 'push' the bike upright so I can put it up. My right foot is no where near the ground. I push off, I want to have the confidence I'll catch the bike in a stable way.

2. I'm at extremely low speed doing some precision maneuvering and I lose traction or something surprises me and I want to put my feet down/stop; I stop the bike, my foot hits the ground, but the bike is at a bigger angle than I expected and I can't pull it back up given the leverage (which quickly results in a soft drop. Thank goodness for frame/fairing protectors).

Unfortunately as a smaller rider you will have to deal with these situations. You will get more confident the more you do it so keep at it. I can give you these suggestions (from experience)

1. I often take the bike off the kickstand before i get on the bike. I'll lift it off the side stand, sometimes pushing my hips into the bike to get it up then I'll kind of anchor my outside leg into the bike and turn my hips in before throwing a leg over. On my dirt bike I have to put it in gear BEFORE i get on the bike! on other bikes I lift it up, get on, transfer the weight to the other leg and then put it in gear.

2. When slow speed maneuvering it is very helpful to keep your eyes up and not get caught looking down at the ground or else it becomes easy to do the quick stop and start to tip over. I always try for the straight approach, no tight turns, look far ahead where i want to go and scan for flat ground (no dips or pot holes). When you put your feet down instead of doing the two leg dangle tip toe thing sometimes I'll just put one leg down flat foot and immediately turn that outside hip INTO the bike for added leverage to hold it up.

I can show you in person next time I see you. We've got the short people syndrome. I can be conquered, I can ride most any bike but do have to always be careful of the slow stuff and getting on/off.

M