Looking for some critique on my track day

[daverdfw]

This was my first track day at this track http://eaglescanyon.com/

The track is pretty rough, has some big concrete patches. Its my 3rd trackday ever.

When I look at the pics taken and this video I feel like my biggest issue is being lazy into the turns. I feel like I need to attack the apex more, and I need to work on rev matching when getting into the corner. I guess my question there is do you guys brake then downshift, or downshift and let the engine do the braking. I seem to be inconsistent in that area. Any advice is appreciated !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61pQBYLI6Xo

[DEFY]

Link to original page on YouTube.

use [ YOUTUBE] {whatever comes after v=} [/YOUTUBE]

[csmith12]

Awesome! I see you doing very well honestly. Not charging the corners, hitting your lines, good throttle control, ect.. ect...

Now if you want to step up to the next level do this. Be black or white as best as possible. Your goal should be to be on the gas or on the brake. Shifting up or down, should only be to keep the rear wheel in compliance with your pace.

Ride the track with no brakes so you know for sure your entry speeds on as many corners as possible.
Next... pick a few corners that you like and have the entry speeds down.
Now work on getting your entry speed right using the BRAKE lever vs engine braking.

At high paces, your downshifts will come fast and in short order. Yours in the vid are pretty good and sound similar to my "race pace" downshifts. The difference is full on brake usage to slow the bike while keeping the rear wheel spinning as fast as possible for stability. If you shift much earlier, your gunna start skipping the rear wheel on entry as your bike's speed will be faster than what the gearing can turn the rear wheel creating some chatter.

There are turns where some amount of engine braking makes sense yes, but if your engine braking as part of setting your corner entry speed as the norm..., then there is more work to be done. Have you ever thought of having or do have some braking markers?

And just wait till you get to a very smooth track. Finding the fun in cornering while the bike is very bouncy under you will teach you much about ignoring the feedback that is not helpful and more importantly, teaches you to ride in a way where you give the bike ONLY what it needs to work for you.

Get your entry speeds and braking markers worked out before you go all ballz out "attacking" the corners. You will have a safer track day if you do them in that order.

Well done.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Awesome! I see you doing very well honestly. Not charging the corners, hitting your lines, good throttle control, ect.. ect...

Now if you want to step up to the next level do this. Be black or white as best as possible. Your goal should be to be on the gas or on the brake. Shifting up or down, should only be to keep the rear wheel in compliance with your pace.

Ride the track with no brakes so you know for sure your entry speeds on as many corners as possible.
Next... pick a few corners that you like and have the entry speeds down.
Now work on getting your entry speed right using the BRAKE lever vs engine braking.

At high paces, your downshifts will come fast and in short order. Yours in the vid are pretty good and sound similar to my "race pace" downshifts. The difference is full on brake usage to slow the bike while keeping the rear wheel spinning as fast as possible for stability. If you shift much earlier, your gunna start skipping the rear wheel on entry as your bike's speed will be faster than what the gearing can turn the rear wheel creating some chatter.

There are turns where some amount of engine braking makes sense yes, but if your engine braking as part of setting your corner entry speed as the norm..., then there is more work to be done. Have you ever thought of having or do have some braking markers?

And just wait till you get to a very smooth track. Finding the fun in cornering while the bike is very bouncy under you will teach you much about ignoring the feedback that is not helpful and more importantly teaches you to ride in a way where you give the bike ONLY what it needs to work for you.

Well done.

this track had braking marker signs, I tried to use those and then adjust if I was too slow on corner entry etc.
here is a pic of my BP
http://www.hart-photography.com/phot...#image=3367347

I felt like my head was looking around the front windscreen more often but looking at the few pics, it's clear I need to get my ass off the seat more and trust the bike.

here is a video of the track that I will be doing again on monday

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Are you going to the track to become a racer or a smoother street rider?
If the last, I would suggest taking more time for each control input as well as improving the coordination.
Your style seems a little "precipitated" to me, but I am old and slow.

Consider that engine braking puts extra load on the chain and rear contact patch, while weight (and subsequent traction increase) is transferred over on the front patch.

You may be able to achieve a better consistency with entry speeds by using the front brake (trail-braking or not), simultaneously with downshifting.

You can downshift without the engine braking effect just by blipping the throttle to perfectly match rpms.
That liberates the clutch, transmission and chain from extra wear.

This is a good reference:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99060

Throttle control along the curves looks very good.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Are going to the track to become a racer or a smoother street rider?
If the last, I would suggest taking more time for each control input as well as improving the coordination.
Your style seems a little "precipitated" to me, but I am old and slow.

Consider that engine braking puts extra load on the chain and rear contact patch, while weight (and subsequent traction increase) is transferred over on the front patch.

You may be able to achieve a better consistency with entry speeds by using the front brake (trail-braking or not), simultaneously with downshifting.

You can downshift without the engine braking effect just by blipping the throttle to perfectly match rpms.
That liberates the clutch, transmission and chain from extra wear.

This is a good reference:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99060

Throttle control along the curves looks very good.

this is a track only bike, I will most likely never ride on the street again. I used to ride a 2003 R6 back then and did about 25k street miles before not riding until I decided to do the track bike this year.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This is a good reference:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99060

Great link Hernan! As far as track riding goes, here is the compliment to that post.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196883

[alex.s]

0:10: brake too early
0:20: shift too early
0:27: brake too early
0:45: use more gas
-- you can get to full gas before the corner apex. in some of your cases you should be.
1:20: tuck onto the tank for more aero when going fast
1:40: dont chop the throttle. carry your speed through transitions and make your chicane smoother. you can also late apex the first turn to put you in a better position to make the second turn.
2:20: dont let yourself push toward the outside of a turn for no reason. take the shorter path- the inside.

[alex.s]

keep in mind too that most of those markers are for much bigger bikes

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by alex.s

0:10: brake too early
0:20: shift too early
0:27: brake too early
0:45: use more gas
-- you can get to full gas before the corner apex. in some of your cases you should be.
1:20: tuck onto the tank for more aero when going fast
1:40: dont chop the throttle. carry your speed through transitions and make your chicane smoother. you can also late apex the first turn to put you in a better position to make the second turn.
2:20: dont let yourself push toward the outside of a turn for no reason. take the shorter path- the inside.

great info thanks!

I had an off on T3 my second session, so I was a bit more tentative the rest of the day not wanting to get too hot into the corners.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Great link Hernan! As far as track riding goes, here is the compliment to that post.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196883

That makes me miss your great write up's once again
Your writer/rider/couch talent can help so many so much !!!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

this is a track only bike, I will most likely never ride on the street again. I used to ride a 2003 R6 back then and did about 25k street miles before not riding until I decided to do the track bike this year.

Feel free to disregard my post then.
But, yes, I believe that you could improve the smoothness of your transitions: a steady suspension is a happy suspension.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Feel free to disregard my post then.
But, yes, I believe that you could improve the smoothness of your transitions: a steady suspension is a happy suspension.

I did suspension work, and I think its pretty firm, I had it setup by a mechanic. on sunday I tried to be smoother on and off throttle and that helped, I think the next step is rev-matching like was suggested earlier.

[daverdfw]

Ok round 2 !

Today I was at motorsport Ranch in Cresson TX running the 1.7mi layout.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

Ok round 2 !

"This video does not exist."

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

"This video does not exist."

fixed thanks!

[Motofool]

I hear an improvement in the smoothness of your transitions.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I hear an improvement in the smoothness of your transitions.

Thanks! this track was my 3rd time on it. I also made a small adjustment to front preload and tire pressure and the bike was much more responsive on turn in.

[Alex]