Take responsibility

[sendler]

I ride a lot of miles. I read a lot of Motorcycles forums. I watch a lot of motorcycle helmet cam videos. I read a lot of posts about crashes. I find that many of the wrecks I read about could have been avoided if the rider had done something differently. But many of the riders who do get wrecked tend to blame someone else.
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"The road crew tracked sand into the road". "The guy in the next lane didn't know I was right beside him in the blind spot and started to merge into my lane so I failed to use the brakes or pay attention to the traffic stopped in front of me and rode right in to the back of the next car". "I gunned it to split through two lanes of stopped traffic at 40 mph as the light first turned green and got hit by the car that was still racing the yellow light from the cross street".
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Take responsibility for your own riding. Ride to arrive. Look twice. Save a life. Your own.
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https://rockthegear.wordpress.com/20...15/look-twice/
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[allanoue]

Dead right

[tgold]

Or: "Alive right"

[verboten1]

That is exactly it!

[dcj13]

Well put.

[CaliGrrl]

Works for me. I tend to drive that way, too. If you think you need to be in front of me, that you need to feel like you "won" something by getting one car-length ahead... I'm probably going to let you.

I may let some choice words in your direction, but I won't get in a scrape over it.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by sendler

I ride a lot of miles. I read a lot of Motorcycles forums. I watch a lot of motorcycle helmet cam videos. I read a lot of posts about crashes. I find that many of the wrecks I read about could have been avoided if the rider had done something differently. But many of the riders who do get wrecked tend to blame someone else.
.
"The road crew tracked sand into the road". "The guy in the next lane didn't know I was right beside him in the blind spot and started to merge into my lane so I failed to use the brakes or pay attention to the traffic stopped in front of me and rode right in to the back of the next car". "I gunned it to split through two lanes of stopped traffic at 40 mph as the light first turned green and got hit by the car that was still racing the yellow light from the cross street".
.
Take responsibility for your own riding. Ride to arrive. Look twice. Save a life. Your own.
.
https://rockthegear.wordpress.com/20...15/look-twice/
.

I was stopped at a four way stop sign in broad daylight in a residential area. A person in a truck turned onto my road, making a left turn to go the way I'd just come from. They decided to cut the corner, and hit me head-on.

I had a discussion with a person who also felt that I could have avoided the collision somehow, that somehow I was partly at fault for this collision.

Bullshit.

I was stopped at the stop sign. I was slightly to the left of the center of my lane. The other person just screwed up, plain and simple.

I did the math. From the time where I could have conceivably been aware of the fact that her path intersected me to the actual impact was less than 0.7 seconds. Even a highly-trained athlete with hyper-quick reflexes could do little to nothing in seven-tenths of a second.

The only way I could have avoided being hit that day would have not to be riding at all.

I refuse to not ride just to avoid the unavoidable.

The fact is that you can, as a rider, only play the odds in your favor. It's impossible to avoid every possible collision scenario completely. Those who believe that somehow a rider is always partly at fault for a collision, that there was a possibility to avoid a collision no matter what the circumstances, are idiots.

[cadd]

Sorry. Your fault. The truck was at the intersection before you. That's why the truck was first to enter the intersection. You should've stopped way behind the stop sign.

Your fault. The end. You're welcome.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I was stopped at a four way stop sign in broad daylight in a residential area. A person in a truck turned onto my road, making a left turn to go the way I'd just come from. They decided to cut the corner, and hit me head-on.

I had a discussion with a person who also felt that I could have avoided the collision somehow, that somehow I was partly at fault for this collision.

Bullshit.

I was stopped at the stop sign. I was slightly to the left of the center of my lane. The other person just screwed up, plain and simple.

I did the math. From the time where I could have conceivably been aware of the fact that her path intersected me to the actual impact was less than 0.7 seconds. Even a highly-trained athlete with hyper-quick reflexes could do little to nothing in seven-tenths of a second.

The only way I could have avoided being hit that day would have not to be riding at all.

I refuse to not ride just to avoid the unavoidable.

The fact is that you can, as a rider, only play the odds in your favor. It's impossible to avoid every possible collision scenario completely. Those who believe that somehow a rider is always partly at fault for a collision, that there was a possibility to avoid a collision no matter what the circumstances, are idiots.

I got hit head on in a car the same way except it was 6 am, raining and I had my headlights on.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by cadd

Sorry. Your fault. The truck was at the intersection before you. That's why the truck was first to enter the intersection. You should've stopped way behind the stop sign.

Your fault. The end. You're welcome.

Unfortunately your uninformed opinion is in fact, uninformed. Luckily the other party's insurance accepted full liability after investigating the facts. Basing opinions on actual facts is a skill that requires practice and effort, though luckily for you not talent.

[sendler]

I like this one from another forum.
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One of my instructors teaching at the MSF when I took it with my wife was a police officer.

He said "accidents" are when things beyond your control happen.... tire blowout, wheel falls off, deer hits you, etc... Everything else is a "traffic crash" and is avoidable.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Unfortunately your uninformed opinion is in fact, uninformed. Luckily the other party's insurance accepted full liability after investigating the facts. Basing opinions on actual facts is a skill that requires practice and effort, though luckily for you not talent.

The effort of uninformed talent needs practice? Wut?

[sendler]

Hindsight is clearest. Foresight applies it. Study these crash reports and aggressive riding helmet cam videos to figure out what could be done differently so you can learn from their mistakes to become a safer rider. Take responsibility for your own safety and for promoting motorcycling by riding safely and politely.

[sendler]

From another forum regarding Lane Splitting in Cali:
[quote=rito Countless times watching the traffic portion of the morning news "motorcycle down in the carpool lane" and I just replay the visual of the guy zipping over the dashed white lines. quote

I'm all for legalizing lane splitting. It has been proven in studies to reduce traffic congestion for the bikes and the cars, by reducing the number of cars on the road and by letting more vehicles get through intersections quicker. The downside is that it seems to have created a "me first" selfish riding style that forgot everything about just following along when the opportunity for splitting isn't right.

[allanoue]

I seems to me what is missing from the discussion about taking responsibility is: taking responsibility for what we could have done to avoid a crash that is the fault of others.

We can avoid 99% of those unavoidable crashes by riding in such away that unavoidable crashes do not happen.(not riding is not an option)

1) Often you need to give up your right of way.
I ride fast but not aggressively, do you know the difference?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I ride fast but not aggressively, do you know the difference?

Perfect question!

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I seems to me what is missing from the discussion about taking responsibility is: taking responsibility for what we could have done to avoid a crash that is the fault of others.

We can avoid 99% of those unavoidable crashes by riding in such away that unavoidable crashes do not happen.(not riding is not an option)

1) Often you need to give up your right of way.
I ride fast but not aggressively, do you know the difference?

Amen. Right of way does not mean the other person will stop.

Is being right worth your life?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Amen. Right of way does not mean the other person will stop.

Is being right worth your life?

My first post in this thread.

Originally Posted by allanoue

Dead right

[LittleRedNinjette]

"Take responsibility".. What's that??

Sadly most people won't. They will look for any reason to blame everything, 100%, on someone/something else.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

"Take responsibility".. What's that??

Sadly most people won't. They will look for any reason to blame everything, 100%, on someone/something else.

Or their lawyer will!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I seems to me what is missing from the discussion about taking responsibility is: taking responsibility for what we could have done to avoid a crash that is the fault of others........

Another layer to add to the discussion is what that specific rider could have done.

Based on education, skills and awareness at the very moment of a dangerous situation, some riders can do more while some can do less to avoid a crash.

If the first group is as responsible as the second one, which one has more probabilities of get hurt or killed?
Could the rider that has not practiced emergency maneuvers, until becoming familiar with the forces on his/her body, with the control inputs and with the attitudes of the bike, dedicate 100% of the attention and energy to the way out?

If you are paying all your attention to these things, the more you ride in traffic, the more capable you become and the more you understand your bike and the limitations of both; but at the same time you realize more and more clearly how vulnerable you really are.

As the risks become more clear in your mind, the more you understand that, besides the "luck" factor, the outcome of each ride depends entirely on your ability to foresee, understand and react.

No all accidents can be avoided by every rider, but each rider can, to a lesser or higher degree, reduce the chance to be involved in a crash.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I ride fast but not aggressively

That's ok as long as no other motorists around you could be intimidated by your riding. Be an ambassador on the road to encourage more people to park their car and commute by motorcycle.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by sendler

That's ok as long as no other motorists around you could be intimidated by your riding. Be an ambassador on the road to encourage more people to park their car and commute by motorcycle.

Yes, that would be riding aggressively.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Those who believe that somehow a rider is always partly at fault for a collision, that there was a possibility to avoid a collision no matter what the circumstances, are idiots.

And the corollary is that riders who believe that they are never at fault, and there was no possibility to avoid any collisions no matter what the circumstances are also idiots.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by sendler

I like this one from another forum. He said "accidents" are when things beyond your control happen.... tire blowout, wheel falls off, deer hits you, etc... Everything else is a "traffic crash" and is avoidable.

Even those "accidents" might have been avoidable. If you actually keep up on maintenance (especially checking your bike on a regular basis), you significantly reduce the chance of having a tire blow out or a wheel fall off. Sure there could be a manufacturing defect that you had no way of knowing about until it happened, but most likely it's due to poor maintenance (underinflated tire, not lubing bearings, etc.).

As someone who's had multiple deer accidents, I know that they can pop out of nowhere right in front of you. However, like other unexpected objects in the road, you can alter your behavior to reduce the chance of running into one. Slowing down is probably the most common way, but even altering your timing or route to avoid especially heavy deer traffic might be an option too.

You don't have to give up doing everything you enjoy, but being alert to possible sources of danger around you will most likely help you to avoid injury or death. The more and sooner you recognize trouble, the more likely you are to be able to dodge it.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Even those "accidents" might have been avoidable. If you actually keep up on maintenance (especially checking your bike on a regular basis), you significantly reduce the chance of having a tire blow out or a wheel fall off. Sure there could be a manufacturing defect that you had no way of knowing about until it happened, but most likely it's due to poor maintenance (underinflated tire, not lubing bearings, etc.).

As someone who's had multiple deer accidents, I know that they can pop out of nowhere right in front of you. However, like other unexpected objects in the road, you can alter your behavior to reduce the chance of running into one. Slowing down is probably the most common way, but even altering your timing or route to avoid especially heavy deer traffic might be an option too.

You don't have to give up doing everything you enjoy, but being alert to possible sources of danger around you will most likely help you to avoid injury or death. The more and sooner you recognize trouble, the more likely you are to be able to dodge it.

I avoid....
7:45am - 8:15am & 3:00pm-3:30pm - when the local high school lets out studens. The road is filled with inexperienced drivers.
The twilight hours - due to increased animal movements on backroads
The very early morning weekday hours - fast commuters and slow farmers moving about
Roads that have churches on Sunday - speaks for itself... little old ladies to and fro to church and home.

ect... ect... ect...

Another interesting example; I don't ride street at all in the two weeks that the local festivals are going on. Way to many out of towners on old curvy roads for me to risk it.

I think it also known as "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". If you don't own part of putting yourself at risk, then you are not taking full responsibility.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

As someone who's had multiple deer accidents, I know that they can pop out of nowhere right in front of you. However, like other unexpected objects in the road, you can alter your behavior to reduce the chance of running into one. Slowing down is probably the most common way, but even altering your timing or route to avoid especially heavy deer traffic might be an option too.

I ride in deer country and am a commuter so I have to ride whenever it's time to get where I'm going. My best technique to avoid running into an animal is to have a vehicle ahead of me when possible. It is much safer to follow than to lead out alone. The highway speed part of my commute is all interstate so I never have trouble finding another vehicle to pave the way.

[Toly]

I think it comes to three layers of defense:

* Anticipation
* Reaction
* Gear

You need to anticipate things by imagining people around you doing dumb things, and leaving yourself a way out. Also, by anticipating things you don't see - like gravel beyond the turn, a deer in the shrubs, etc.

When you fail to anticipate, you better hope your reaction is right.

[Motofool]

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205589

[sendler]

Thanks. From a quote of the book in the other thread.
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Attitude also plays a part. Taking responsibility for your own actions is easy, but because you, the motorcyclist, will more likely suffer bodily harm in the event of a crash, then you, the motorcyclist, must take responsibility for everyone else’s actions as well. This means being tuned into not only your self, your bike, and your environment, but also being aware of other drivers, correctly anticipating their behavior, and effectively avoiding hazards before they place you at risk. Ideally, a skilled rider avoids hazards before they even become hazards.
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[Misti]

Originally Posted by sendler

I ride a lot of miles. I read a lot of Motorcycles forums. I watch a lot of motorcycle helmet cam videos. I read a lot of posts about crashes. I find that many of the wrecks I read about could have been avoided if the rider had done something differently. But many of the riders who do get wrecked tend to blame someone else.
.
"The road crew tracked sand into the road". "The guy in the next lane didn't know I was right beside him in the blind spot and started to merge into my lane so I failed to use the brakes or pay attention to the traffic stopped in front of me and rode right in to the back of the next car". "I gunned it to split through two lanes of stopped traffic at 40 mph as the light first turned green and got hit by the car that was still racing the yellow light from the cross street".
.
Take responsibility for your own riding. Ride to arrive. Look twice. Save a life. Your own.
.
https://rockthegear.wordpress.com/20...15/look-twice/
.

Totally agree. I hear excuses ALL THE TIME. There are some things that are unavoidable but for the most part there are things that the rider could have done differently to prevent the incident and it is up to us, THE RIDERS to take a look at our crashes and notice our mistakes so that we can be sure to NOT repeat them again. I think of crashes as part of my rider training, if I don't understand what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again then I didn't learn anything from the crash and the next time it happens the outcome may not be as good. So, dissect your crashes, figure out what went wrong and what you could do to improve.

I remember the first time I high sided at the track racing, most of the people just said -"yup, that was a high side, they happen." and because I didn't understand why or how it happened, it happened again.....and then again... it wasn't until I went to the Superbike School as a student and told Keith about my highsides that he made me ride the slide bike and explained the REASON that highsides happen....after that, I distinctly remember a time that I was riding Laguna Seca, I got on the gas too hard on the exit of turn 4 and felt the rear end severely sliding. My hand wanted to chop the throttle but I stopped rolling on, kept it steady and remained relaxed and I felt the bike regain traction and I kept going. I knew in that moment that I had just applied what Keith had taught me to prevent a violent crash and I was quite proud of myself

What are some ways that you have saved yourself from a crash by applying specific riding techniques that you have learned along the way?

[SLOWn60]

I low sided the high side bike ... and broke it. True story!

By far the five techniques that have saved my skin and probably my life the most are;

#1: mastery of the front brake no matter the conditions. Including the extremely rare times when you don't touch it. I practice emergency stops virtually every time I ride.

#2: Target fixation. Or rather; not target fixating. I look where I want to go no matter what is going on. My peripheral vision is assigned to the big picture. This can be an almost 180 degree head swivel to do a lock U turn or to the vanishing point in a curve.

#3: Riding within my vision. I can always stop within the distance I can see.

#4: Smooth operation of the bike. It's truly amazing what your machine can do if you are smooth with all your inputs.

#5 (What really should be #1!) Taking advanced riding school courses! You may think you know it but you don't. It's mind blowing what professional guidance will do to step up your skills making you a better, safer rider on the street and if you're so inclined; on the track.

[RacinNinja]

1. Go ride a dirt bike so you know what it feels like to slide.

2. Master the rear brake. Many street riders tell me it's useless and no one should use it. I will respectfully disagree with anyone of that mind set.

3. Always scan 5-10 seconds ahead of you in traffic or riding period!

4. Look where you want the bike to go! Turn your head through a corner and look at the exit. This will take time but your body will put the bike right where you're looking.

5. Do not target fixate! Look where you want to go, not where the object you want to avoid is!

6. SQUEEZE the brakes. Don't just grab at them. Steady increasing pressure is your friend.

7. Smooth application of throttle. Roll it on, roll it off. Don't just snap it shut or snap it open.

[allanoue]

My crash was someone pulling out from a side road making a left. I watched her pull up to the stop sign and look at me, I would have sworn I made eye contact with her, then look the other way then back at me. When I was 20 or 30 feet from her going 45 or 50 mph she pulled out.

I learned about the SMIDSY swivel after that and I use it every ride and every time I see a car in an intersection and also around most manhole covers just to practice.

[JohnnyBravo]

No

["A"]

Every time I come to a red light, I look at the drivers around my vehicle, I can see at least one or two drivers who are talking on their phone or TXTing.

School is going to be out soon, new driver's are going to hit the road within the next two months.. on average 6 teen drivers get killed in a day in the US... what are the chances that one would take out a motorcycle rider before dying?

[corksil]

It has been my experience that this statement is more true about motorcycles than anything else.

"Act like a dummy, get treated like one."

It has also been my experience that people who are slow learners do not last long on motorbikes. One or two crashes and they seemingly hang it up for good. Probably for the best.

Ride safe everyone!

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by Misti

...
So, dissect your crashes, figure out what went wrong and what you could do to improve.
[Highside anecdote]
...

I think this snippet, along with the anecdote, makes an important point that isn't explicitly verbalized. You (the general plural you, not Misti...aside from her own anecdote) may not personally have the knowledge or experience to dissect your own crashes and fix the problem.

Seek out that knowledge.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by toEleven

I think this snippet, along with the anecdote, makes an important point that isn't explicitly verbalized. You (the general plural you, not Misti...aside from her own anecdote) may not personally have the knowledge or experience to dissect your own crashes and fix the problem.

Seek out that knowledge.

Good point. Seek out the knowledge to find out what went wrong and what you can do in the future to improve your own riding, otherwise you crashed in vain if you don't learn from it

[Yakaru]

I've been in 4 incidents:

Incident one: Vehicle did an unsignaled lane change into me, I tried to swerve and brake at the same time. Bad idea. Went down. Fault? Other drivers. Learned lesson? Yep. Several.

Incident two: At a stop light. Light turns green, car in front of me goes into reverse and backs into me. Fault? Other drivers. Learned lesson? Yep.

Incident three: Cruising down far right lane. Grid locked traffic in left lanes. Car makes illegal left hand turn through the traffic and I slam into his front tire. Fault? Other drivers. Learned lesson? Yep.

Incident four: I was at CSS in Las Vegas. Getting too confident and wanting to 'shake off the rust' as fast as possible. Combination of being crossed up plus adding lean and throttle in a sharp turn causes me to go down. Fault? Mine alone. Learned lesson? I hope so. Still having to fight the habit.