What do I risk damaging in a crash?

[corksil]

Hey guys, new bike, new rider, new to the forum.

I'm almost done piecing together my safety gear setup and doing maintenance on my new bike to bring everything back up to 100% oem performance and reliability.

Soon I'm going to hit the crater roads and really see what this bike can do. I've been a little cautious so far while riding -- I'm not sure exactly how far I can lean the bike over without crashing, or at what speed.

In all areas of my life I'm one to push the envelope, and I'm wondering how I can protect my bike (resale value.)

Hypothetical situation.. you are coming into a turn too fast, grab a little too much brake, and dump the bike in a low-side crash. What will be damaged? How can you protect those parts?

A crash may not be unavoidable, but foresight can save a bike in the event of a crash. (I hope.)

What sort of things should I be looking for? Frame sliders? Handle-bar ends? Folding shift levers? How can I protect my bike's appearance/resale value in a crash?

Thanks.

[Jiggles]

Go to the track, infinite lean available

[Alex]

Not a crash thread. Moved to General.

[corksil]

We do not have a track on the island. I live on Maui -- full moon crater roads are the best option.

Calling a friend to help pick up a broken/non-running bike at 4am is not a pleasant task.

I'd like to be proactive and take precautions to ensure that my bike won't be damaged [much] in the event of a crash.

Any anyone advise? Where do I start?

Would this keep me out of trouble or would I need more than this kit?
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/s...250r-2008-2012

I'm reading about the install in the DIYs.

[Joshorilla]

I like the R&G Racing crash protectors the most, you can potentially destroy anything and everything in a crash, most likely to damage bar ends, bend levers (both hand and foot) any and all panels on the crashed side but mainly the big side ones.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by corksil

Hey guys, new bike, new rider, new to the forum..................I'm not sure exactly how far I can lean the bike over without crashing, or at what speed...........Hypothetical situation.. you are coming into a turn too fast, grab a little too much brake,...............
A crash may not be unavoidable, but foresight can save a bike in the event of a crash. (I hope.).......

TC,

I understand the point of your post, but rather than responding what you specifically ask, I would like you to consider a different approach:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=14

Leaning the bike is not the problem, the problem are going to be your natural survival reactions (SR) along a curve or when an unexpected road emergency appears.

Those reactions are contrary to the correct practice in motorcycling and can make you put your bike sideways on the road or worse.

If you are considering jumping on curvy roads and lean the bike a lot, you will crash for sure.

Yes, having some protection for the fairing is good, but avoiding any crash is many times superior to that.

What I am trying to say is that going fast and leaning much should not be your goals during the first times of riding.

Your goals should be getting familiar with the bike and traffic and learning to tame and control your SRs.

Motorcycles rarely crash; therefore, IMHO, all crashes that are inducible by the rider are avoidable.

Please, take your time to get properly educated and trained before the natural time to find out about the maximum lean of your bike comes.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

I like the R&G Racing crash protectors the most, you can potentially destroy anything and everything in a crash, most likely to damage bar ends, bend levers (both hand and foot) any and all panels on the crashed side but mainly the big side ones.

I see.

It appears that the R&G ones are only sliders for up on the fairings.. Which would mean I would have to find and install additional parts for swingarm sliding, bar ends, and anything else that would drag in a crash. Unless I'm mistaken.

The Shogun kit for 200 shipped looks like a nice easy single hour project without the need to piece anything together.

So I'd realistically be looking for...
-frame slider (kit) $207
-rearset (kits to raise/fold pegs) $500
-folding clutch/brake levers $200

And that would give me a pretty good chance of not destroying the bike in a minor get-off?

Thanks, I'm trying to piece all this together mentally.

[choneofakind]

All the things. You can wreck all the things.


Remember that even a simple lowside can 'total' your bike because these bikes cost so little brand new, and the OE fairing pieces are expensive as heck. So literally, a lowside can wreck your bike completely.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Motofool

TC,

I understand the point of your post, but rather than responding what you specifically ask, I would like you to consider a different approach:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=14

Leaning the bike is not the problem, the problem are going to be your natural survival reactions (SR) along a curve or when an unexpected road emergency appears.

Those reactions are contrary to the correct practice in motorcycling and can make you put your bike sideways on the road or worse.

If you are considering jumping on curvy roads and lean the bike a lot, you will crash for sure.

Yes, having some protection for the fairing is good, but avoiding any crash is many times superior to that.

What I am trying to say is that going fast and leaning much should not be your goals during the first times of riding.

Your goals should be getting familiar with the bike and traffic and learning to tame and control your SRs.

Motorcycles rarely crash; therefore, IMHO, all crashes that are inducible by the rider are avoidable.

Please, take your time to get properly educated and trained before the natural time to find out about the maximum lean of your bike comes.

Thanks for your post. I understand what you are saying -- by slowly riding within my skill-zone-speed over time and practicing correct riding techniques, I will expand my abilities and speed possibly without ever crashing the bike.

I am well aware that the bike will only lean so much, I just have no idea how much that is. In my normal riding I have tilted the bike pretty far by my estimation (not-saying-much-as-I-am-a-new-rider).

I have not taken the bike for any spirited riding as of yet, as my new safety gear isn't here and I've got some work to do on the bike.

Seems that the tone of your post is -- "don't push it that far." Yet on the other hand I'm not sure exactly when I'll find the 'limit' without the bike falling over under my control.

Maybe getting off one's intended 'line' through a corner is enough of an indicator that the rider is trying to exceed their safe/skilled 'speed.'

[allanoue]

you want to ride at 70% of your riding comfort level so when you have "Oh $h!t" moments you have room to push your comfort level to avoid crashing. You will have lots of them so no need to push.

[Shofet]

Take MSF course, watch/read Twist of the Wrist II (youtube full movie), get framesliders/bar end sliders (goes on the end of your handlebars), short brake/clutch levers (cheap ones can be had for $25 a set on ebay).

You can damage everything in a crash, or nothing.

Best thing to do to avoid a crash is parking lot practice a lot.
Braking, hard braking, practice locking the rear brake at slow speeds then at gradually higher speeds. Find the limits of your bikes braking potential, know that this will change as traction changes on different kinds of roads.

You are planning on spending all this $ and energy prepping your bike for the crash, which is good, but in addition you really should be spending a lot of your time learning and focusing how to avoid a crash in the first place.

[MR2Aaron]

The short answer is that you can damage pretty much everything. Handlebar tubes and brake/clutch levers are pretty much always damaged when the bike falls over, in my experience. Fairings are frequently damaged as well, but are less likely to strand you if they get broken.

That said:
1. Just take it easy. Ride within your comfort zone, and practice the skills you were taught in the MSF course. You will learn where the limits are in due time.
2. For the love of god, don't ride super fast out in the sticks at 4AM.
3. Good quality gear will make crashing significantly less unpleasant, but you still risk serious injury or death. It is vastly better to simply avoid crashing, by becoming proficient before dialing in a ton of speed.

[greenaero]

Great advice to the OP regarding improving your skills and not pushing it to the limit. Virtually every crash is avoidable. You need to have the skills and awareness to avoid dangerous situations and know how to react appropriately when the unexpected occurs.

[Whiskey]

How far can it lean? pretty far. I've a stock size rear tyre with about 3mm on each edge that hasn't been scrubbed in, I'm sure there are others who have gotten it out to the edge completely.

You can completely destroy the bike if you come off, so I suggest you learn to ride it properly before you start exploring the limit of traction at serious lean angles.

I had a fairly big off, a 50 mph lowside which broke a footpeg bracket, scraped both brake levers & bar end, put an indo through the side panel of the fairing & dented the can.

I ended up with a severely dislocated shoulder, which was not helped by picking up the bike after it popped itself back in & riding it back home.

I say again, learn to ride it properly before trying extreme lean angles.

[SMman]

I personally wouldn't spend the money on the sliders, folding levers, or rearsets. If you haven't already, spend the money on the best gear you can afford, including boots, gauntlet (long) gloves, pants, jacket, and even a back protector (have one in my leathers). If you do crash, you can just replace any broken stock parts with other stock parts and still spend less than you did buying aftermarket parts. Too bad you don't have a track nearby because you certainly can learn a lot.

[csmith12]

Wishful thinking.... Your time is better spent working on the rider rather than the bike.

Here is what you do;
GEAR UP!
Get into some classes like MSF and the like
Get a friend to mentor you
Never stop learning

As far as preventing damage to a bike, don't waist your time. Get AAA to pick you and your bike up in the event of an off and plenty of insurance to cover expenses, repairs and medical.

By far the most common things to break are;
Turn signal stems (install flushmounts)
Holes, cracks in fairings (install flushmounts because the turn signal stems love to punch holes where they mount)
Bent brake and shift levers
Broken rearsets
Broken levers (get foldable levers, but that is not 100%)
Bent clipons
Tweaked forks
Tweaked tail
EVERYTHING ELSE LOL

Frame sliders are a double edge sword, they may help for 0mph and very low speed drops but may cause more harm than good going a decent pace if they latch onto something while skidding.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by corksil

I am well aware that the bike will only lean so much, I just have no idea how much that is.

Pretty far.

Some great examples in this thread:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127839

My favorite example of leaning a 250 is Peanut_EOD, and most recently, csmith12.


My reasoning for posting extreme lean pictures is that you needn't worry about lean angle. Worry more about making a smooth line through a turn that allows you to keep a mostly constant lean angle and not require mayn inputs to the bars. Work on being slow into the corner and fast out. Work on staying wide and turning in late so you can see the whole curve and avoid traffic and open it up on exit. Work on smooth braking and getting your entry speed set early so you don't panic and can focus on taking your turn without upsetting the suspension mid-corner. There's many things to learn as a new rider, lean angle (while impressive in pictures, I get that ) is not important. If you're smooth, you're fast. If you're fast, you'll lean. The bike will let you know when you're pushing the limits of traction; it's not an instant loss deal, it's a linear and gradual slipping feeling (but it does happen quickly, don't get me wrong) and if you're smooth, everything works much better.

Basically, don't worry about leaning. It's a sport bike, it's meant to lean. You'll have grip the whole way to the edge, you just have to be smooth to use that grip.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by corksil

Thanks for your post...........I have not taken the bike for any spirited riding as of yet, as my new safety gear isn't here and I've got some work to do on the bike.

Seems that the tone of your post is -- "don't push it that far." Yet on the other hand I'm not sure exactly when I'll find the 'limit' without the bike falling over under my control.

Maybe getting off one's intended 'line' through a corner is enough of an indicator that the rider is trying to exceed their safe/skilled 'speed.'

The geography of your land forces you to learn proper cornering, being right hand descending turns the most difficult to master; add some cross wind and rain and a new rider could be in trouble in a heartbeat.

The limit is your mind, never your bike.
Those are the limits that you will find immediately, which involve the danger of a panic reaction induced by your survival reactions.
The triggers to reach that point are your perception of excessive speed and insufficient space ahead of you.

So, your goal is educating your perception in the way of becoming familiar with speed and space, but without reaching that panic point and SRs.
That education takes some time, less if you are a quick learner and natural rider.
During that education time the only effective ways to keep SRs and panic reactions under control are:
1) Learning about the proper techniques of stopping, swerving and cornering.
2) Practice those techniques at moderated speeds.

I know that you don't want to ride at moderated speeds; however, learning the incorrect techniques while rushing the process is many times less desirable.
It is so because it is incredible hard to get rid of bad riding habits once you self-teach them to yourself.
Those bad habits will stick with you for long time and will drag you and your bike over the pavement eventually, testing your protective gear and sliders.

Once you know that you are cornering in the proper manner and slowly as a grandma, you have found your "mental limit" and it is time to speed up a couple of mph for the next time over that curve, starting a new cycle of finding your next level of "mental limit".

In no time, you will be moving much faster and confident of your skills and your limits and the dangers of those curves.
Don't try night riding and heavy traffic for the first few weeks.

Motorcycling is a complicated activity that is as rewarding as merciless and requires a new set of skills that you will need to develop methodically and carefully.
Be respectful of your machine, always .......... she will teach you many new things about Mechanics and Physics and about the limits of your mind.

If you must know about lean angle and the reasons behind it, read these:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100964

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138226

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100922

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114372

You are welcome, TC.

[Panda]

Don't crash. Learn to ride instead.

[parox91]

Originally Posted by Panda

Don't crash. Learn to ride instead.