The Mom Dilemma

[gogoKawi]

So, I gave my mother the 250. Actually, that's not true. I am GIVING her the 250 when she passes her MSF class. Today was her test and (drum roll)... she didn't pass. Luckily for her, she gets to take the class again in 2 weeks. What does this mean??? You guessed it! I will be her personal trainer until then. Really, I don't mind. I would do just about anything for that woman. However, I do have a problem. I don't want anything to happen to her.

Unfortunately, she fell 3 times during her class, all in the first couple of hours during the first day. And 2 of those times were the result of other classmates. But, she hasn't fallen since. I am pretty confident she has her coordination together now. I just don't want anything to happen during our practice time. She has gear. I bought it for her personally. Only thing she doesn't have are knee/shin protectors, and I'm going to give her mine.

I'm just not quite sure what is the best way to help her practice. Go to an empty parking lot? Setup some cones? Do the same drills as the MSF? I'm not trying to give her a class. I just want her to be able to ride well and safely. So, any suggestions?

Also, I am thinking about taking the fairings off of the 250. If she does go down, it will minimize the damage of the bike. Or will it? I also have frame sliders for it. But, I didn't put them on because of a few threads in our forums. They are the kind where the sliders attach to a triangular bracket, which attaches to the frame. You think I should put them on before we practice?

I'm really freaking out about the whole "Mom riding a motorcycle" thing. I just can't stomach her on the open road with all of these drivers that don't see motorcycles and have some pinned up resentment towards them. Why couldn't she do this when she was in her 30s, instead of her 50s? sigh... I will still support her regardless. But, it's killing me!!!

[Flow]

Chances are she went through the same thing when you started riding.

Just saying.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Flow

Chances are she went through the same thing when you started riding.

Just saying.

You are right. She felt the same way when I started riding. But like I said, I will support her regardless of how concerned I am. It's her dream to ride, and I'll do what I can to make her dream come true. But, that's not going to make me feel any better about the situation.

[Flow]

No, I suppose not. Go find a vacant lot, a good amount of room to ride in with little to no clutter. Practice everything from the MSF course that you can and re-analyze your riding to give her tips she might not think are obvious.

[adouglas]

The guys who are going through the whole "I'm set on getting a bike even if my parents kick me out" thing should read this thread and think about it.

Anyway...

Structure and training are good, I think, because they provide attainable, measurable goals. Just puttering around the parking lot aimlessly doesn't accomplish much.

Set up the MSF exercises and have her do them all until she aces them.

Some of them, like the figure-8-in-a-box are really good confidence/bike control builders.

There are also lots of good exercises in Lee Parks' Total Control book, complete with diagrams that have circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.....

(showing my age here - at least SOME of you may know that reference)

[Flow]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Just puttering around the parking lot aimlessly doesn't accomplish much.

Set up the MSF exercises and have her do them all until she aces them.

That's what I suggested.

[ScraitT]

I'd suggest removing the fairings to minimize damage and possibly installing the frame sliders. Sliders can be horrible in higher speed crashes, but at the speeds you will be going at for training, they should do their job pretty well if the worse should happen.

Good luck to both of you!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

I'd suggest removing the fairings to minimize damage and possibly installing the frame sliders. Sliders can be horrible in higher speed crashes, but at the speeds you will be going at for training, they should do their job pretty well if the worse should happen.

Good luck to both of you!

That's what I was going to say! Seconded.

[kevlarorc]

Originally Posted by adouglas

The guys who are going through the whole "I'm set on getting a bike even if my parents kick me out" thing should read this thread and think about it.

Anyway...

Structure and training are good, I think, because they provide attainable, measurable goals. Just puttering around the parking lot aimlessly doesn't accomplish much.

Set up the MSF exercises and have her do them all until she aces them.

Some of them, like the figure-8-in-a-box are really good confidence/bike control builders.

There are also lots of good exercises in Lee Parks' Total Control book, complete with diagrams that have circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.....

(showing my age here - at least SOME of you may know that reference)

structured practice is definitely good. I'd say figure 8 practice is probably the most useful. There was a girl in my MSF class that honestly shouldn't have passed. She was waaaaaaaay outside that box every time along with a lot of other issues. I don't think she had enough time for her personally to build up enough confidence with leaning those cruisers over at low speeds.

we had fun fillin out the forms and playin with the pencils on the bench there.

[tjkamper]

Have her practice all of the MSF stuff.

Leave the fairings on. There is less chance of her coming incontact with hot or ridget parts if the rounded fairings are on. Put on the sliders. THey will help with low speed drops.

Make sure you sweep the parking lot before you have her riding. That will make it a lot less dangerous, and she can focus on riding.

Good luck.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by tjkamper

Leave the fairings on. There is less chance of her coming incontact with hot or ridget parts if the rounded fairings are on.
Good luck.

A good pair of pants solves any hot part issues. Fairing are expensive, why risk it for training?

[KJohnson21]

It's cool to have a Mom that rides. My Mom bought a used bike and learned to ride in her mid-thirties, when I was a young teenager. It was part of her mid-life crisis I guess. (She got married when she was sixteen and my Dad was twenty-one!)

A couple of years ago my wife, two daughters and a boyfriend (not mine or my wife's) wanted to learn to ride because my wife had gotten a used cruiser, however it was a month or so before the MSF. I didn't want to put a lot of time into anything that might conflict with the MSF curriculum so I focused on the really basic motorcycling control skills.

I took them to a large parking lot (at a grade school on early weekend mornings) and started with clutch drills. We did clutch drills for 10-15 minutes at a time with me walking beside the bike. When the rider's hand started to get painful, another rider would take over. We kept doing that until they were getting bored with it, that way they could work the clutch properly without thinking about it. (IMHO - Riders shouldn't be thinking about how to work the clutch while they're in the middle of traffic.)

Then we went onto the basic starting-and-stopping practice, "Drive a hundred feet and stop." We did more and more, gradually progressing, no huge leaps. The main thing was that I wanted to get them to a good comfort level with low speed maneuvering. Hopefully start an instinct that might keep them from dumping it when somebody steps out from between two cars in a parking lot, or something.

Anyway, none of them dumped their bikes or killed the engine during the MSF, and they all passed the test.

I hope your Mom does well on her second time.

[Snake]

Great to see you helping out your mom. You are a good son.

[GeneJunkie]

Hopefully I can help with my experience. Prior to the MSF course I had absolutely no experience on a motorcycle, quad, dirt bike etc and only have ridden mountain bikes, so I might be in a similar situation to your mom... granted I never dropped their bikes, I was just was the stalling queen.

What bike did she use for the MSF... the Honda CFR230? I will warn you that the figure 8 feels completely different on the ninja 250 compared to the 230. When I was getting the feel for my 250, I tried many times doing the figure 8 and had to put my foot down almost every time until I got used to the weight, while in the MSF course I didn't have that difficulty. I really did notice a weight difference especially when I was practicing leaning the bike to the right and left (with engine off to feel the weight of the bike).

I would suggest doing everything that everyone else suggested. Start off with playing with the friction zone, do the power walking, etc. If either of you forgot what they did in the course, the MSF course book basically goes over the entire riding section. Just take everything slow and she will be fine.

[BlueRaven]

it's very thoughtful of you to give your mom your 250. lots of practice and try doing more exercises that focuses on her weaknesses.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Flow

That's what I suggested.

I know you were first.

Originally Posted by adouglas

Structure and training are good, I think, because they provide attainable, measurable goals. Just puttering around the parking lot aimlessly doesn't accomplish much.

Set up the MSF exercises and have her do them all until she aces them.

MSF exercises it is! Hopefully, they will help her build confidence. She is scared of twisting the throttle too hard, to the point where she doesn't give the bike enough gas. Someone in her class fell and ripped open her knee. So now, she is a little gun shy with the right hand.

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

I took them to a large parking lot (at a grade school on early weekend mornings) and started with clutch drills. We did clutch drills for 10-15 minutes at a time with me walking beside the bike.

Dude!!! That is it! Clutch drills! I keep telling her that the clutch is her best friend on the bike. She doesn't quite get it yet. I think that's what I will concentrate on first. The clutch and throttle control, in a straight line of course. After that, we will go to the drills.

Originally Posted by GeneJunkie

What bike did she use for the MSF... the Honda CFR230? I will warn you that the figure 8 feels completely different on the ninja 250 compared to the 230.

They used the Buell Blast. It's the same bike I used in my class in Florida. They are good starter bikes, though I hate the clutch on those things. They are setup differently than the 250, a little more cruiser like. When she got on the 250, she didn't know where to put her feet because the foot pegs are pushed back further and higher than the Blast. Not too mention the seating position, which slopes down instead of flat. She's didn't look very comfortable on the 250 when she rode it down the street. I think part of it was that she was used to the Blast. So yeah, she is going to have to get intimate with the bike.

Originally Posted by ScraitT

A good pair of pants solves any hot part issues. Fairing are expensive, why risk it for training?

I'm going to put the sliders on. Not sure about the fairings. I'm going to ride it with them just to make sure there are no heat issues while riding. BTW, too bad I'm not still in Sunrise. I wasn't too far away from you. It would have been cool to ride with another 250 owner.

[g21-30]

In order to prevent damage to YOUR bike, practice only the basics, i.e. starting, stopping, low speed turns, and big circles. Leave the "test" drills such as the box to the instructors, since they have more experience teaching it.

If your Mom is like most people, the clutch (friction zone) and coordinating the shifting and stopping will be the hardest things to learn.

Check out the first video (Learn to Ride the Easy Way) at this link:

http://www.ridelikeapro.com/online-videos

If you have time, you might want to purchase this DVD and have her watch it. I bought it after passing my MSF course!

If you can teach her the basics, she will be on the road to passing her MSF test. Just remember to have her ALWAYS cover the clutch. Sometimes the MSF instructors rely too much on teaching where the "kill switch" is, when all the student really needs to do is use the clutch. "With the clutch lever squeezed, the motorcycle is nothing more than a heavy bicycle."

Good luck!

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I'm going to put the sliders on. Not sure about the fairings. I'm going to ride it with them just to make sure there are no heat issues while riding. BTW, too bad I'm not still in Sunrise. I wasn't too far away from you. It would have been cool to ride with another 250 owner.

Fairings do a good job of protecting mechanical bits on the bike. What I'd do is to leave the fairings on since her practice (!) falls are likely to be very low speed tipovers; put put several layers of duct tape on all the edges where you've seen fairings get scraped up in the past. Plus, with the protection in place she's less likely to be afraid of damaging the bike (and therefor more able to focus on the task at hand, namely not crashing).

FWIW...

[Rj.]

i hate to get off topic and i hope this doesnt come off disrespectful to anyone but people failed the MSF course? idk how to ride and im taking the course this sat and sunday, but when i talked to them to register they said the class was for people who kno nothing about riding, like nothin at all, which i dont, so im kinda a little worried now. u kno wat i mean?

[adouglas]

It's hard to fail. Just pay attention and do what they tell you to do.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Rj.

i hate to get off topic and i hope this doesnt come off disrespectful to anyone but people failed the MSF course? idk how to ride and im taking the course this sat and sunday, but when i talked to them to register they said the class was for people who kno nothing about riding, like nothin at all, which i dont, so im kinda a little worried now. u kno wat i mean?

I think it all depends on the instructor.

There were people in my MSF class that should NOT have passed and did. They are going to end up getting themselves hurt or worse. The one lady could barely manage the Buell Blast in the course, dropping it all over the place...her ride at home was to be her husbands old Harley Full Dresser.

Other people in the class just couldn't figure out the clutch and friction zone. I'm sorry, but it's basic, and it you can;t get a handle of it, you don't need to be on the road, you're going to get yourself into trouble.

I may have had a huge advantage in the fact that I have ridden dirtbikes since I was 5, but regardless, if you can't properly handle the bike and you can't work the clutch and gears well, you don't need to pass. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to save people from getting hurt. I think WAY too many people pass the MSF that should NOT.

The MSF in my opinion is far too easy as is without letting people skim by and pass when they truly don't know how to handle a bike. It's dangerous out there with cars that will never see you....you need every advantage you can get, and the MSF helps with that.

[Flashmonkey]

LOL I was literally 1 point away from failing the course (the canadian version). In any case, the riding course is optional up here...so the fact that people even bother to take it is impressive enough for me.

[tjkamper]

Originally Posted by Rj.

i hate to get off topic and i hope this doesnt come off disrespectful to anyone but people failed the MSF course? idk how to ride and im taking the course this sat and sunday, but when i talked to them to register they said the class was for people who kno nothing about riding, like nothin at all, which i dont, so im kinda a little worried now. u kno wat i mean?

MSF is not very difficult. Even if you have no experience. You will be taught all that you need to know in order to pass. Also the MSF course gives you pleanty of practice time on each manuveour. Relax and have fun.

[harlumjp]

I agree that it totally depends on the instructors. In my class, after a guy dropped the bike, then late lost control and ran off the course, they failed him. Another guy who never dropped the bike but clearly didn't have his skills up by the 2nd day also got failed.
I agree the point of MSF is to learn how to ride safely and if you can't demonstrate it in class, you should not pass until you can.

Originally Posted by Rj.

i hate to get off topic and i hope this doesnt come off disrespectful to anyone but people failed the MSF course? idk how to ride and im taking the course this sat and sunday, but when i talked to them to register they said the class was for people who kno nothing about riding, like nothin at all, which i dont, so im kinda a little worried now. u kno wat i mean?

hey just pay attention to what they teach you and as long as you are willing to learn and have good balance you will pass!

[BlueTyke]

Andre! I have a Ride Like A Pro Video. Not sure if it will be helpful but it was given to me by a friend before I moved out of CA. If you want to borrow it let me know! I'll be out of town this weekend... Let me know

When I first started to learn the BF took me to a big lot and worked on clutch and friction, along with stopping ^^ I think these are great areas to start in.

An important thing to remember is her confidence in the fact that she can do this. (That is if she can >< ) Dropping the bike can be discoraging and certainly failing the MSF so your confidance (And courage!) is a good part so your support of her is Awesome!

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

When I first started to learn the BF took me to a big lot and worked on clutch and friction, along with stopping ^^ I think these are great areas to start in.

Thanks everyone for your support on this. I can't tell you how much you have helped me, and helped her.

We went to a parking lot today for the first time. I decided to not modify the bike. I was pretty confident she and the bike would be ok. We decided to go to the RFK stadium, where I learned how to drive. All we did was practice riding at low speeds, which involved clutch and throttle control. This was probably the best thing we could have done. She didn't understand the importance of the clutch. She also had a tendency to just forget about the clutch, which meant a LOT of stalling at her MSF class. I'm happy to say she didn't stall once. She did great!!! Here is a rundown of the tips and topics we covered:

• Hand over clutch at all times.
• Pull in clutch first before pulling the brake when slowing down or coming to a stop.
• Keep hand off of brake unless there is intention to use it.
• When starting to roll, let the legs dangle until a decent speed is maintained. Then feet can go on the pegs.
• When stopping, let the legs dangle well before coming to a stop.
• When going down a gear, use the tip of foot and not the heel.
• Don't engage the throttle while braking.
• Don't worry about the spedometer. (Next time, I will tape it so she can't see it.)
• Keep the arms and grip loose.

After about 20 minutes, a security guard told us we had to go. Apparently, there was an accident there about a year ago. Now the city said no one can practice driving or riding on the property. I'm guessing there have been thousands of people that learned to either drive or ride a bike or motorcycle on that lot over the past 40 or 50 years. Even the security guard, who was in his 50s, said he learned to ride there. Very sad... So, we went to another parking lot and kept on practicing. She even practiced going into second gear and handled it with no problems.

It was a good night. No one went down. Her confidence was really high. I was both happy and sad. Happy that she was doing so well. But, sad that I won't be calling the 250 mine for much longer. I'm so confused. She looked really good and, most importantly, comfortable riding it. This is a pic of her after the ride. I didn't want to take any pictures of her riding. I didn't want her to get nervous or embarrassed while in motion. That would be a good way to have an accident, you know...

[kkim]

cool... keep it up, Andre.

practice makes perfect.

[BlueTyke]

Awesome! GO mom!

[pooter]

That's awesome, but I'm sort of curious when you mention she fell as a result of her classmates, were they running into her or into her path of travel?

Short of doing something insanely dangerous or dropping your bike during the evaluation, it is pretty hard to fail the test. Don't think anyone of us did that figure 8 uturn in a box exercise right and even stalling out doesn't count against you (unless it then leads to you doing something dangerous like falling) and we all passed. A girl in our class dropped her bike twice and passed (not during the test though, that's an auto fail)

However, it's another thing if you're not "keeping up" before the evaluation. Saw a few people sent home simply because they were too slow and not keeping with the quick pace the class was going.

Also when she goes back, try to get her to go really early then maybe sit on different bikes before she chooses one to use for the course. I got stuck with a Honda that I kept jamming my shins on the pegs that really made the first half of the first day frustrating until they changed me to another bike. I got short asian legs :P

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by kkim

cool... keep it up, Andre.

practice makes perfect.

Thanks kk!

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

Awesome! GO mom!

Soon she will be riding with us through the twisties. Oh what a scary thought...

Originally Posted by pooter

That's awesome, but I'm sort of curious when you mention she fell as a result of her classmates, were they running into her or into her path of travel?

Also when she goes back, try to get her to go really early then maybe sit on different bikes before she chooses one to use for the course.

One of the riders forgot where the brake was. So, Mom tried to move out the way before the woman ran her over. As a result, the woman passed her and crashed, but Mom dropped the bike.

She was really picky about the bike she rode. She said the bikes were too low and made them get a taller one. All of the Buell Blasts are crap. But she wound up with one that she was comfortable with. She is very picky, which is good!

[pooter]

damn your mom's class sounds downright scary

[ride2rideagain]

I am not sure about removing fairings to "minimize" damage. You dont want engine parts and anything inside to take damage. It's easier to have cosmetic damage than functional damage. Install the frame sliders to reduce damage to the fairings but I'd keep the fairings on.

[SlowBoyRacing]

Wow this is an old thread.

[jack_bm]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I also have frame sliders for it. But, I didn't put them on because of a few threads in our forums. They are the kind where the sliders attach to a triangular bracket, which attaches to the frame. You think I should put them on before we practice?

Hey Congratulation on helping your mum! A quick question though what do you mean when you say you havnt put your frame sliders on becasue of a few threads in the forum, becaise i would like to get some frame sliders but to me it sounds like you're put off to use them so just wondering why becuase i thought they was the best thing to buyt o help protect your bike.

Hope your mum passes and all the best.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by SlowBoyRacing

Wow this is an old thread.

Seriously. I hope she ended up on a can-am spyder or something.

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

(She got married when she was sixteen and my Dad was twenty-one!)

Off topic, but if they dated for a few years before getting married like most people do, was your dad 18 and dating a 13 year old?

[KJohnson21]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Off topic, but if they dated for a few years before getting married like most people do, was your dad 18 and dating a 13 year old?

No, they only dated for a few months before they "got into trouble". Her mom (my Grandmother) was too embarrassed to explain the "birds and the bees" to her (my mom), and my grandparents were so delighted that their daughter was dating a "college man" that they never thought of his motives. And pretty much back then (1959), if you got pregnant, you got married.

[CynicalC]

Classic shotgun wedding lol

[Reddoak]

Originally Posted by adouglas

The guys who are going through the whole "I'm set on getting a bike even if my parents kick me out" thing should read this thread and think about it.

Anyway...

Structure and training are good, I think, because they provide attainable, measurable goals. Just puttering around the parking lot aimlessly doesn't accomplish much.

Set up the MSF exercises and have her do them all until she aces them.

Some of them, like the figure-8-in-a-box are really good confidence/bike control builders.

There are also lots of good exercises in Lee Parks' Total Control book, complete with diagrams that have circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.....

(showing my age here - at least SOME of you may know that reference)

I just laughed for about 18 minutes. I'm the only one, maybe. You can get anything you want...


I'm watching my mom go through the same thing, with a scooter.