Anything else I should do?

Hey guys,
In a couple weeks I'll be adding a danmoto exhaust, pulling the snorkel, and shimming the carbs. The bike is new to me with 4300 miles. Should I add anything else while I'm at it like a new air filter?
edit: this isnt so much the scheduled maintenance thing but more so random mods our things you guys tend to do when you rip apart the bike for maintenance.

[Scattcatt]

Looks like a great starting list if you ask me! I'd definitely consider removing the air box an installing pod filters as well as rejetting your carbs on top of what you listed. Happy modding!

[EthioKnight]

If you're going to shim, make sure you have the right tools! I can't stress that enough. An offset screwdriver and JIS screwdriver bits would be my recommendation, you'll find too many stripped screw horror stories, so beware and happy modding

Yea I'm gonna get the screwdriver, and if I do strip one, I'll do the dremel trick and take it off with a flathead. I plan on changing them to allen key head screws. Thanks
Edit: Also, do you think with the exhaust and snorkel pulled I should run at 2 or 3 washers on each side for starters? The bike needs full choke to start cold for about 1-2 mins but it is also 50 degrees here in Ohio right now and when I do install it all it will be very early May and much warmer. So the bike should be easier to start in warmer weather, so maybe I should just start with 2 and move up to 3? And should I run the bike to WOT after I install the washers? I want to see a change in low end mostly correct? Like the powerband is fatter and it should also help with top end right? I've done a lot of research I just want to make sure my thoughts are all correct

[Scattcatt]

As far as I know, mixture screws=lowest end (idle) washers are low end (3-5k ish rpm I believe) and main jets affect higher up.

Great Ty

[Scattcatt]

Check this link out that I got from this thread:

http://www.gadgetjq.com/keihin_carb.htm

there is an image that shows that the particular piece affecting the fuel is dependent on throttle position rather than RPM, just thought I'd bring that to your attention. That's news to me too, I thought it was mostly based off of engine speed

[choneofakind]

Cody, get a pair of Keihin 100 main jets as well, and test those out compared to the 98 mains.

There's a blogger who rides a 250 in the Cuyahoga Valley and gets his bike tuned at the same shop as me (forget the link though, I'll try and find it) and he got it dynoed with a Yoshi slip, snorkel delete, and 100 main jets. Since that's the same elevation/weather as us, that's worth checking into. 1 pair of jets is cheap. Also, when I opened my intake lid and took out the silencers in my slip-ons, going up a size on the main jets pulls harder

EDIT: found the link. http://www.ninja250mods.com/ <---- we'll get to ride all the roads in these pictures when we go for rides this summer

[Scattcatt]

I totally forgot you were in Ohio, I keep thinking you're one of the Cali guys was going to ask ya sometime if you would ever consider a track day around town, scratch that! You're a little far away haha

[choneofakind]

scattcatt! come to ohio and do a track day with me and csmith12 in June!! hahah

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

scattcatt! come to ohio and do a track day with me and csmith12 in June!! hahah

yes!!!! do it!

[Scattcatt]

If I ever find myself with my bike up in your parts, consider it a done deal!

[choneofakind]

solution. uhaul van. ninja in van. roadtrip. mid-ohio

[Scattcatt]

One expensive track day! Better be worth it! Oh and by the way... Sorry @codestp202 kinda took over on ya

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by codestp202

...In a couple weeks I'll be adding a danmoto exhaust, pulling the snorkel, and shimming the carbs. The bike is new to me with 4300 miles. Should I add anything else while I'm at it like a new air filter?

A new drop in air filter would not hurt if you are keeping the airbox. I understand the Dan Moto's are very loud and may perform slightly better with the baffle. Plan on adding the baffle or doing the kleen air delete mod?

Originally Posted by codestp202

... do you think with the exhaust and snorkel pulled I should run at 2 or 3 washers on each side for starters?

The number of washers you use will depend on their thickness. The avg. # of shims others use are 2. The common thickness I believe is 0.25 for one. The shims I put on my bike are 0.75 thick for one. I have 2 shims on each needle.

Keep in mind shimming will be most effective at about 1/4 - 3/4 throttle. Finding out at what rpm your throttle position is in will give you an idea where the bike performs the best with your changes. For me and my gearing, 8k rpm is 1/2 throttle in 6th gear (80 mph indicated). Because this is where I do the majority of my riding, I'm a little bit richer there. Unless you change your main jet, WOT will be the same, just breathing better because of the snorkel removal and air filter if you change it. Look at the Pipercross Air Filter



Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101

I'll definitely look into new jets! And hell yea those roads look sweet I can't wait to ride in nice weather because I rode for the past 4 days and it was cold as all hell.

I did get the baffle for the danmoto, so I'm looking at shimming carbs, danomoto with baffle, removing snorkel, and I'm gonna check out those jets. But holy hell like 60 bucks for that air filter(Update: I found it cheaper on other websites). However, Do you really think its necesarry to purchase an aftermarket air filter right now?

Edit: Also, If I hold off on the main jets and air filter for a couple more weeks, will I still receive decent performance gains from the shimming, exhaust, and snorkel removal? (After buying the bike I'm a little short on cash and I have some other expenses to pay for)
Second also, what coolant do you guys like? My bike needs a tad
Wow, I have learned a lot about carbs lately.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by codestp202

... However, Do you really think its necesarry to purchase an aftermarket air filter right now?

... If I hold off on the main jets and air filter for a couple more weeks, will I still receive decent performance gains from the shimming, exhaust, and snorkel removal?

You should be able to see a performance gain from the shimming, slip on exhaust and snorkel removal. Jets and filter can wait.

[choneofakind]

Yeah it will run fine with the stock mains, no snorkel, and a slipon. Just might run better with a step up jets. But in the mean time, you'll be fine to run with the stock mains for a few weeks.

When you guys test the bike after you've put everything in (exhaust,snorkel remove,shimms) How do you personally test for lean/rich conditions? How should I run the bike before I do the work to see how it compares afterwards?

[Scattcatt]

This may help, it sure helped me! You can also check by pulling your spark plugs and looking at them http://www.ninja250forum.com/index.p...6&topic=3784.0

For testing I would make the change, then ride a little on surface streets going through all the gears and varying your throttle input, feel for flat and rough spots in the power curve and make a note of the rpm and the throttle position. Then test it out on the highway for higher speeds. You should be able to tell the difference fairly easily.

Sweet! I saw the spark plug thing, how soon will I be able to tell by the plugs? So maybe I should do the work until I get the bike to run nicely, then ride it for a couple days like that then check the plugs?

[Scattcatt]

I honestly don't know how long it would take to have a noticeable and accurate affect on the plugs to be quite honest, I'm sure someone else will chime in here who does though. Mostly I determined things by my idle behavior, obviously that doesn't account for all the different variables affecting your AFR for your whole power curve though, but it's a good way to start and get your mixture screws and clips in the right place. What I did from this point was play with the main jets until I found the jet that gave me the most pull for all/most conditions.

Sweet! Well I do believe my bike is definitely running lean. I did pull just the snorkel when I had the bike apart and it wouldn't even run with the choke fully on = too lean. So I'm gonna pull the snorkel, add the exhaust w/ baffle, and start with 2 washers.

[Scattcatt]

Good luck! If things are that lean, I personally would recommend getting some larger main jets and playing with them, your power curve will love you

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by codestp202

Sweet! Well I do believe my bike is definitely running lean. I did pull just the snorkel when I had the bike apart and it wouldn't even run with the choke fully on = too lean. So I'm gonna pull the snorkel, add the exhaust w/ baffle, and start with 2 washers.

If you need help with bike work after I'm done with finals, lemme know. I should be available most weekday evenings to help. I've heard the newgen airbox is harder to deal with than the pregen airbox though, so it could be a learning experience for both of us

In the mean time, the DIY on shimming the carb needles is pretty helpful. That's what got me started into my carbs

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

If you need help with bike work after I'm done with finals, lemme know. I should be available most weekday evenings to help. I've heard the newgen airbox is harder to deal with than the pregen airbox though, so it could be a learning experience for both of us

In the mean time, the DIY on shimming the carb needles is pretty helpful. That's what got me started into my carbs

Dang... Finals? Already? Must be nice being done!

You two go have a great carb party lol I'll be stuck... Here in Vegas... Alone... Without a carb party... lol

Hahaha, Okay I'll confess... I already got down to the carb covers the other night before I came back to Kent. Stripped the ****ing cover screws... I dont feel that bad because everyone does it. So i'll do the dremel tool and take it off with a flathead when I get out of school and change the screws to Allen head keys so its super easy to change how many washers. **** my life lol, at least I can strip the bike super fast now.

I'm done here at kent on May 3rd... I wanna go home now

[choneofakind]

Yeah we're on semesters. finals week is May 7-11.

ohhhhhh btw @codestp202 I meant to say AFTER I'm done with finals. hahaha good catch on that one Zach.

[choneofakind]

nice!!! I replaced those, and the bowls as well. When you start playing with main jets, pick up 8 more of those hex head screws for the bowls as well. Those things are a real b**ch to get off sometimes.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

nice!!! I replaced those, and the bowls as well. When you start playing with main jets, pick up 8 more of those hex head screws for the bowls as well. Those things are a real b**ch to get off sometimes.

Wait, so I think we got something confused before, I go to Kent now and I live in Painesville, where do you go to school/ where do you live outside of school?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by codestp202

When you guys test the bike after you've put everything in (exhaust,snorkel remove,shimms) How do you personally test for lean/rich conditions? How should I run the bike before I do the work to see how it compares afterwards?

If you look at a dyno chart for a stock Ninja you will find that the main jets are almost perfect. They are also a little rich in the mid-range already. Adding a slip on, removing the snorkel and shimming will improve the mid range and smooth out the whole range (low-mid-full). You should not run into a problem of being too rich or too lean.
Before you make the process more complicated than it needs to be, you may want to know this piece of info.

" Carbureted powersports vehicle manufacturers do not jet their carburetors perfectly, for two reasons. First, there are emissions considerations, mostly affecting the idle and midrange carburetor circuits. Consequently these circuits are jetted leaner than normal, and should be richened slightly for better performance. However, this rarely requires more than an adjustment to the idle mixture screw, and in some cases an adjusted slide needle height. Second, manufacturers ship their product to many different places across the globe. They purposely jet too rich on the main jet, the carburetor circuit that presents the most liability in terms of engine overheating. Therefore, all road-going powersports vehicles are jetted "fat" on the main jet. Contrary to what many people believe, but true nonetheless. Manufacturers do this because they cannot jet individually for each market, so they simply err on the rich side rather than the lean side, because the latter would present more problems. The fact is, engines are much more forgiving of a 3% rich condition than an equal lean condition, and just as importantly, few customers will notice a rich main jet, while nearly all will complain about a lean one."
- from Pipe Jetting

Originally Posted by codestp202

Sweet! I saw the spark plug thing, how soon will I be able to tell by the plugs? So maybe I should do the work until I get the bike to run nicely, then ride it for a couple days like that then check the plugs?

It does not take long to do a correct plug check. Note that the key word is correct. Often times it is done wrong and the real reading can be masked. Unless you are going to re-jet and go to a larger or smaller main jet, that's where you will want to do a real check on the plugs. In order to do so you will need to do the following;

-From Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101

Place a piece of tape on the throttle housing. Place another piece of tape on the throttle grip and draw a line (while the throttle is at idle) straight across from one piece of tape to the other. When these two lines are lined up, the engine will be idling. Now open the throttle to full throttle and draw another line directly across from it on the throttle housing. At this point, there should be two lines on the throttle housing, and one on the throttle grip. Now find the half-way point between both of the lines on the throttle housing. Make a mark and this will show when the throttle is at half throttle. Divide the spaces up even again until idle, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full throttle positions are known. These lines will be used to quickly find the exact throttle opening while jetting.

Clean the air filter and warm the bike up. Accelerate through the gears until the throttle is at full throttle (a slight uphill is the best place for this). After a few seconds of full throttle running, quickly pull in the clutch and stop the engine (Do not allow the engine to idle or coast to a stop). Remove the spark plug and look at its color. It should be a light tan color. If it's white, the air/fuel mixture is too lean and a bigger main jet will have to be installed. If it's black or dark brown, the air/fuel mixture is too rich and a smaller main jet will have to be installed. While changing jets, change them one size at a time, test run after each change, and look at the plug color after each run.

After the main jet has been set, run the bike at half throttle and check the plug color. If it's white, lower the clip on the jet needle* to richen the air/fuel mixture. If it's dark brown or black, raise the clip* to lean the air/fuel mixture. (*= adjustable needles that come in a jet kit)

Sweet, so what you're saying is the main jet should be fine and the work im doing will be perfect. I'lll definitely test the plugs after I do the work!

[choneofakind]

I go to school at ONU in Ada Ohio. When I'm not at school, I'm in Hudson.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I go to school at ONU in Ada Ohio. When I'm not at school, I'm in Hudson.

Ohh, Mr. Smartypants goes to Ohio Northern! Well cool Hudson isn't that far!
Btw guys i forgot to tell you, when I bought the bike, the last owner had this installed and it has all kinds of cool programmable stuff for turn signals!

[choneofakind]

Well now that I see that picture, I think the next thing you should do is DEFINITELY a fender chop. Even just using a dremel, a file, and a lighter would be better than nothing!

Yeah you need to look into the Emerald Necklace. You're about an hour north of me. The East half of the necklace goes right up to you. ish.

Mr Smartypants hahaha

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Well now that I see that picture, I think the next thing you should do is DEFINITELY a fender chop. Even just using a dremel, a file, and a lighter would be better than nothing!

Yeah you need to look into the Emerald Necklace. You're about an hour north of me. The East half of the necklace goes right up to you. ish.

Mr Smartypants hahaha

I did do the fender chop silly!

[choneofakind]

Do moaarrrr!!!

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Do moaarrrr!!!

I may chop it a lot more now that I know that my tail light can be programmed to be blinkers, so I might chop the whole thing and strictly use it for blinkers now and maybe mount the flush ones in the front. But that will be down the road after I do all this other work!

[choneofakind]

not sure that's completely legal in Ohio. Using the integrated signals in combination with some sweet LED signals would be fine.

Well that works too. But right now I'm more worried about getting the bike to run perfectly haha! And getting really good at riding it