Who wants to see a MOSFET R/R upgrade?

[Ghostt]

Yup, it's time to lose that old school SHUNT STYLE R/R to a more accurate, and dependable MOSFET R/R.

Mosfets run cooler, plus they’re more efficient. So if your stock R/R unit has burned out, maybe it’s time to move to a newer Mosfet type unit as shown here. Mosfet R/Rs model names start with the letters FH. Old type models start with SH.

I have the R/R (FH010) already, just waiting for a few little pieces to show up.

Stay tuned folks, I promise a nice clean and easy installation, with pictures of course.

Update 12/12/14

Pieces & Parts.

Okay I ordered the connectors from Eastern Beaver (http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html )

They offer a great selection and options to make the conversion, easy, and reliable, depending on the level you wish to take it to.

I myself am choosing to do this modification as a plug-n-play version.

The advantage is, if needed I can plug the OEM R/R back in without any issues or problems.

Why would I want to switch back you say?

The answer is my OEM R/R is in working condition, and when I travel I will carry it as a spare, just in case of emergency.

The connectors I ordered will allow me to make an adapter harness/pigtail. All I have to do is supply some wire.

UPDATE 01/21/2015

Okay so I've made the wiring adapter pigtail, only to find out I ordered the wrong connector that would plug into the bike's wiring.

So I cut off the old one that was attached to the OEM R/R, and used that instead, which sucks.

There is one wire that is no longer needed and that's the brown one, so I removed it from the OEM male connector.

The 3 yellow wires are from the stator, so it makes no difference which order they are in when plugging into the gray plug on the R/R, no polarity issues.

The black/yellow wire is the negative, to that goes on the right/outside, and the white/red wire goes to the left/inside, due to polarity. The middle is left empty for the black plug.

But it's all done, and I will install it tomorrow.


UPDATE 01/22/2015

Installed and working perfectly, so far. It's a tight fit, and only able to use the top bolt for mounting, but it's not going anywhere.

FINAL VERDICT

A worthwhile investment and upgrade that is needed to make the bike more dependable, and the R/R more efficient.

One most remember that the OEM SHUNT R/R dump all those unused amps to their heatsink, if you've converted to all LEDs to save those amps, it's slowly cooking the OEM SHUNT R/R, which only speeds up the failure process.

The MOSFET R/R is better at handling this, and more efficient, and a better R/R all together.

[fry1024]

Interesting

[alex.s]

so how many HP will this add? also do i need to change the amount of blinker fluid if i use a mosfet instead of shunt type?

[alex.s]

i have another question...

has anyone ever seen a ninja 250 vrr burn out? i sure haven't.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by alex.s

so how many HP will this add? also do i need to change the amount of blinker fluid if i use a mosfet instead of shunt type?

Not as much hp gains when one adds the MONSTER ENERGY DECALS, and you'll need to change over to full synthetic blinkers fluid, and headlight fluid as well.

[crazymadbastard]

thank you for posting this mod, I like updated r/r myself.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i have another question...

has anyone ever seen a ninja 250 vrr burn out? i sure haven't.

I'm not sure about the 250, but I know the 500 has had some issues. I have done this modification to my own 500, after the OEM SHUNT one burned out, so it was a replacement/upgrade modification.

[Ghostt]

MOSFET? What exactly is that? I knew the term from the audio industry but I figured I'd copy and paste the information verbatim for the purposes of explanation. From wikipedia:

The metal–oxide–semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET, MOS-FET, or MOS FET) is a transistor used for amplifying or switching electronic signals. The basic principle of this kind of transistor was first patented by Julius Edgar Lilienfeld in 1925.

Fine, that's what it is. What does it do? Again from wiki:

In MOSFETs, a voltage on the oxide-insulated gate electrode can induce a conducting channel between the two other contacts called source and drain.
How does this affect a regulator rectifier? Well, the vast majority of Regulator/Rectifiers use a 'shunt' type regulator. What this does is shunt (source) voltage directly to (drain) ground when voltage exceeds the rating they were set for. This makes them hot as they dissipate the heat generated by constant shunting to ground.

In actual operation, they shunt until there is no more voltage and then resume operation. This can be a bad thing because when the regulator is shunted, the battery is not getting charged. If you add more drain, the regulator will actually shunt less and run cooler. Either way, the battery, which has to be maintained at a specific level of charge for normal operation, is not getting the amount of charge it needs. Factor in malfunctions which occur relatively frequently in any kind of mechanical switch and the benefit of using a MOSFET type switch becomes more clear.

The MOSFET switch shunts also, but less frequently and only until voltage returns to an acceptable level, not to complete dissipation. The result is, it runs cooler, and it is much more effective as a regulator, delivering continuous voltage to the battery, regardless of engine speed. With a standard shunt type regulator, the charge rate at the battery actually goes down with an increase in engine speed. It's more effective at idle rather than full throttle.

I did some online research and found that all available MOSFET type R/Rs are made by a single company in Japan. Shindengen is the name of it. Suzuki uses a MOSFET type too, but the manufacturer of theirs isn't on the RR itself. That makes identification nearly impossible.

Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha all use Shindengen RRs in varying part or model numbers. These seem to range from an FH0001 to an FH0018A. The FH0001 can be found on R1s prior to 2006. It's huge though. The CBR/RR models use an FH0014A and the ZX6R an FH0016A. The most common ones used in the conversion are from either the R1 or the ZX10, that an FH0012A and an FH0010A respectively. There are others out there, including an FH0008A that I've seen available on Ebay. Any of these would be worth the $50-$70 asking price to do the conversion.

There is some conjecture on the web about the output amperage of these RRs. Some claim that the FH0012AA is 50A but some of the others to be at 35A. I read somewhere that Shindengen states they are 40 to 50A in all cases. Whether this is the case or not, I don't have any of these units in my hand with a test lead and my digital Voltmeter to test that claim. There are kits available now on Ebay also that include the RR and all the associated wiring, terminals and fitting to make the conversion work. Roadstercycle is the name of the site. Also, it was suggested that some sort of volt meter be added to the bike to monitor voltage being sent to the battery.

Further there is a company called Eastern Beaver that sells connector fittings and terminals. Some are packaged into kits also for just this job. Current models from the big 4 all have this type RR installed going back to 2006. Some going back to 2003 or 2004 depending on the model and manufacturer. I don't know about any of the Euro 4 doing the same. (BMW, Ducati, Aprilia and Triumph) Nothing I found during my research of this topic indicated that was the case. In fact, several forum articles I found indicated that this mod was being done on Triumphs, Aprilias and Ducatis. I don't know about BMW. I didn't see anything to indicate that.


The Stator (alternator in car lingo) creates an AC current by passing magnets over coils of wires while the engine is turning. The VR (Voltage Regulator) Regulates the voltage and to some degree the amperage created by the stator. It does this in order to not cook the battery. The faster the motor spins the more voltage it creates. Batteries shoul not be charged much higher than 14v. The stator without a regulator could run away to voltages of 24v+. Voltages higher than 14.5v will burn out a battery quickly. The shunt regulator basically shorts out all voltage over the limit of 14.5v which in some cases is shorting a lot of voltage and amperage to ground which creates a lot of heat. The Mosfets basically do the same thing but with more finess than brute force. They turn on and off several thousand times a second to keep the voltage steady. The Mosfets do not need as much power to operate and such can operate at lower rpms.


After your next ride, feel how hot your vr is. They get very warm if not hot. They are engineered just good enough for the heat they have to endure. The better way there is no significant heat therefore less stress and less possibility for failure. Its taking something that may very well break and replacing it with something that probably won't ever break. Less heat equals less stress in electronics.

[alex.s]

on my fzr600, the vrr had been blown (common problem for that bike due mostly to a bad ground connection running through the frame) so i replaced it with a fancy mosfet 5-wire vrr. it does what it's supposed to do.

[ninjunk]

So the big question, is the rectifier more efficient? IE does more power get from the alternator to the output pin.

in other words, does it mean i can add more farkles?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ninjunk

So the big question, is the rectifier more efficient? IE does more power get from the alternator to the output pin.

in other words, does it mean i can add more farkles?

no. the rectifier is still 3 diodes. the only difference is the method for decreasing power output.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by alex.s

no. the rectifier is still 3 diodes. the only difference is the method for decreasing power output.

Agreed, it doesn't not increase the total output, it just manages it more efficiently.

[alex.s]

you need a stator with more windings if you want more power output. or i think --this is definitely not my area but-- maybe stronger magnet stator would also produce higher output power... but i might be wrong on that last part...

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you need a stator with more windings if you want more power output. or i think --this is definitely not my area but-- maybe stronger magnet stator would also produce higher output power... but i might be wrong on that last part...

You are correct sir, I have looked into this, and unfortunately there is no room for one, that would make worth while for the amount of money it would cost to have it custom made. I have talked and emailed Rick, at Rick's motorsports, here is a copy of the email

Hi Scott,



I’m sorry – I was able to confirm with Rick that we are not able to wind that stator to a higher output.



Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Our office hours are Mon. - Fri., 9am to 5pm, EST.



Best regards,

Maria



logo_Small

30 Owens Ct. Unit 2

Hampstead, NH 03841

P: 603-329-9901

F: 603-329-9904



www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com

[Ghostt]

I also looked into a stator from another Kawasaki bike, knowing how they love to use the same part for multiple bike.

Unfortunately this is not the case for the stator.

This Kawasaki 21003-1154 STATOR is used on these models and components:

1986 EX250-E1 Ninja 250R GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1987 EX250-E2 Ninja 250R GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1988 EL250-B2 Eliminator GENERATOR
1988 EX250-F2 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1989 EL250-B3 Eliminator GENERATOR
1989 EX250-F3 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1990 EX250-F4 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1991 EL250-E1 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1992 EL250-E2 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1992 EX250-F6 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1993 EL250-E3 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1993 EX250-F7 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1994 EL250-E4 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1994 EX250-F8 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1995 EX250-F9 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1996 EX250-F10 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1997 EX250-F11 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1998 EX250-F12 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1999 EX250-F13 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2000 EX250-F14 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2001 EX250-F15 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2002 EX250-F16 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2003 EX250-F17 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2004 EX250-F18 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2005 EX250-F19 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2006 EX250F6F Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2007 EX250F7F Ninja 250R GENERATOR

Unlike the R/R

This Kawasaki 21066-1030 REGULATOR-VOLTAGE is used on these models and components:

1972 H2 Mach IV IGNITION-GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1973 H2-A Mach IV IGNITION-GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1974 H2-B Mach IV IGNITION-GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1975 H2-C Mach IV IGNITION-GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1980 KZ550-A1 GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 A3-A4)
1980 KZ550-C1 LTD GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 C3-C4)
1981 KZ550-A2 GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 A3-A4)
1981 KZ550-C2 LTD GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 C3-C4)
1982 KZ550-A3 GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 A3-A4)
1982 KZ550-C3 LTD GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 C3-C4)
1982 KZ550-H1 GPz GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1982 KZ750-N1 Spectre GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1983 KZ550-A4 GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 A3-A4)
1983 KZ550-C4 LTD GENERATOR-REGULATOR ('82-'83 C3-C4)
1983 KZ550-F1 Spectre GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1983 KZ550-H2 GPz GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1983 KZ550-M1 LTD Shaft GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1983 KZ750-F1 LTD Shaft GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1983 KZ750-N2 Spectre GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1984 KZ550-F2 LTD Shaft GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1985 EN450-A1 454 LTD GENERATOR
1986 EN450-A2 454 LTD GENERATOR
1986 EX250-E1 Ninja 250R GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1987 EN450-A3 454 LTD GENERATOR
1987 EX250-E2 Ninja 250R GENERATOR-REGULATOR
1987 EX500-A1 EX500 GENERATOR
1988 EL250-B2 Eliminator GENERATOR
1988 EN450-A4 454 LTD GENERATOR
1988 EX250-F2 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1988 EX500-A2 EX500 GENERATOR
1989 EL250-B3 Eliminator GENERATOR
1989 EN450-A5 454 LTD GENERATOR
1989 EX250-F3 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1989 EX500-A3 EX500 GENERATOR
1990 EN450-A6 454 LTD GENERATOR
1990 EN500-A1 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1990 EX250-F4 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1990 EX500-A4 EX500 GENERATOR
1991 EL250-E1 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1991 EN500-A2 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1991 EX500-A5 EX500 GENERATOR
1992 EL250-E2 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1992 EN500-A3 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1992 EX250-F6 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1992 EX500-A6 EX500 GENERATOR
1993 EL250-E3 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1993 EN500-A4 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1993 EX250-F7 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1993 EX500-A7 EX500 GENERATOR
1994 EL250-E4 Eliminator 250 GENERATOR
1994 EN500-A5 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1994 EX250-F8 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1994 EX500-D1 Ninja 500 GENERATOR
1995 EN500-A6 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1995 EX250-F9 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1995 EX500-D2 Ninja 500 GENERATOR
1996 EN500-A7 Vulcan 500 GENERATOR
1996 EN500-C1 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
1996 EX250-F10 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1996 EX500-D3 Ninja 500 GENERATOR
1997 EN500-C2 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
1997 EX250-F11 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1997 EX500-D4 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
1998 EN500-C3 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
1998 EX250-F12 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1998 EX500-D5 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
1999 EN500-C4 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
1999 EX250-F13 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
1999 EX500-D6 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2000 EN500-C5 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2000 EX250-F14 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2000 EX500-D7 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2001 EN500-C6 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2001 EX250-F15 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2001 EX500-D8 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2002 EN500-C7 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2002 EX250-F16 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2002 EX500-D9 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2003 EN500-C8 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2003 EX250-F17 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2003 EX500-D10 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2004 EN500-C9 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2004 EX250-F18 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2004 EX500-D11 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2005 EN500-C10 Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2005 EX250-F19 Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2005 EX500-D12 Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2006 EN500C6F Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2006 EX250F6F Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2006 EX500D6F Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2007 EN500C7F Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2007 EX250F7F Ninja 250R GENERATOR
2007 EX500D7F Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2008 EN500C8F Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2008 EX500D8F Ninja 500R GENERATOR
2009 EN500C9F Vulcan 500 LTD GENERATOR
2009 EX500D9F Ninja 500R GENERATOR

[fast1075]

I saw a post in a forum "somewhere" that claimed the cover could be machined to hold a wider stator from an unknown year model 600.

My Google-Foo is not strong enough to find it tonight.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by fast1075

I saw a post in a forum "somewhere" that claimed the cover could be machined to hold a wider stator from an unknown year model 600.

My Google-Foo is not strong enough to find it tonight.

Here you go,

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Alternator_Information

Alternator Information
This is a brief overview of currently-known alternator information for the Ninja 250. This information is only likely to be helpful to advanced mechanics.
Tiny alternator glossary:
Stator: The part of the alternator which is affixed to the bike, inside the left hand engine cover. This part may be replaced with some work.
Rotor: The part of the alternator which spins, affixed to the crankshaft. No aftermarket replacements available.
A stock alternator stator was sent to Electrosport for testing. They sent back the following results:
Core Thickness Output (A) @1000rpm 1200rpm 1400rpm 1600rpm 2500rpm 3600rpm 6000rpm
EX250 Stator (stock)13mm 6 . 8 . 10 11 13 14. 15 180W
ESG110 Stator 15mm 6 10 12 14 17 18 19 230W
ESG636 Stator 19mm . 1 6 10 14 20 23 25 300W

Power(W)@13Vdc

Note that all stators make nearly their full power by 1400 RPM, which is approximately idle speed. Kawasaki lists the stock alternator as being 17A at 10k RPM (or 238W at 14V), although this was not borne out by Electrosport's testing -- they say that the output curve is essentially flat above 6k RPM.
No information has been collected on how much power the bike requires while running. This information is necessary to accurately determine the actual power overhead available. Common wisdom is that there's about 60W overhead available for accessories (lights, heated clothing, etc.) with a stock stator, which would imply that the bike needs about 120W to run. Forum posts have led some riders to surmise that there may be a somewhat higher electrical overhead, in the range of 70-90W, but the only way you can find out for sure is to install whatever accessories you're thinking about, put in a voltmeter, and keep an eye on it.
Electrosport reports that the ESG110 stator can be installed without modifications to the engine case, although it does not come with the correct connector, and will require cutting and soldering to get the stock connector swapped on. The ESG636 can be installed in the Ninja 250's case, but it will "require some machining of the case." More-specific information isn't available at this time.
Electrosport suggested that the stock Ninja 250 regulator is capable of handling the increased power without modification or replacement. This seems likely, as Kawasaki is unlikely to make a variety of regulators, more likely using one regulator on many different bike models.
For the time being, a stator swap should be considered an expert-level modification, not suitable for most mechanics. If you're comfortable with soldering and have access to heat-shrink tubing (electrical tape is not an acceptable insulator for this job), and are capable of jobs such as a valve adjustment, you have the skill to swap in the ESG110. If you're willing to commit your engine cover to having at least 4mm machined off the stator mount-points, the ESG636 should be achievable. If considering either modification, contact Electrosport directly for more-specific fitment information.
This FAQ article should not be considered authoritative on the matter of stator installation.
Note: For reliability reasons, you may be better off sticking with your stock stator. Members of the Thumper section of ADVRider did a group buy on Electrosport stators, and they were less than impressed with their longevity. If you're really interested in Electrosport products you should do your own research.
Note 2:If you are looking at this information because you are thinking of getting some heated gear for winter, see Leon's comments on this page.
Category: Electrical & Lighting

[alex.s]

ricky isn't alive anymore. grace and son manage the business now. electrosport also hand-winds stators. i bought a custom one from them a few years ago for my 600

[flitecontrol]

Tim Perrott rewinds the VN750 stators to better than OEM specs at a fraction of the price for a new stator. They consistently produce more voltage than OEM stators. He uses better quality materials to achieve this. I assume this would also apply to the Ninja, but have no personal info on that.

You send him a rebuildable stator and pay shipping both ways. The last one I bought from him a few years ago was $65 IIRC.

http://www.tpe-usa.com/

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by flitecontrol

Tim Perrott rewinds the VN750 stators to better than OEM specs at a fraction of the price for a new stator. They consistently produce more voltage than OEM stators. He uses better quality materials to achieve this. I assume this would also apply to the Ninja, but have no personal info on that.

You send him a rebuildable stator and pay shipping both ways. The last one I bought from him a few years ago was $65 IIRC.

http://www.tpe-usa.com/

Thanks, good info

[ninjunk]

Yeah thats what i figured. If somehow the rectifier was more efficient you could get more current (less voltage drop at current) but it would probably be incremental at best as i'm sure its already pretty efficient.

This would be the 300W ESG636 they were talking about from a zx6. That would be totally worth a bit of machining and 100 bucks to fit in there. If i find myself needing more power i'll look into it and document my results.

http://www.amazon.com/ElectroSport-E.../dp/B000GV7RW2

If the bike really is requiring 120W of power to run, with no EFI and no electric water pump that is pretty insane. I would guess the electric fan is part of that, otherwise i just cant imagine what would be sucking up all that juice.

If the fan really is a huge part of the equation, perhaps adding a 'thermobob' or doing some bypass circuit mods to prevent the fan from kicking on as readily would be worthwhile.

I suppose i dont even know what I would use that would suck up 60+ watts. Maybe i'll hook up one of those 12v cigarette lighter coffee makers so i don't have to suffer the embarassment of parking my ratty little ninjette next to all the GS's and Ducati's at starbucks.

[Ghostt]

I've e-mailed ElectroSports, and here it is their response on using the ESG636 Stator;

I'm not really sure. This isn't something out company supports, we make a purpose made part for the ninja 250, its the ESG110.

The ninja 250 owners community found a way to make the more powerful ESG636 fit in the cover, which is cool, but I really don't know exactly what goes into making it fit. We try to make all our parts as direct replacements. So we have not experiments with how much to machine out of the ninja side cover to fit an esg636 within. We instead made the ESG110, which is a couple mm thicker than stock, as thick as can fit without modification.

Kyle Wood - Sales Manager
-------------------------------------
Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
21 Brookline, Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
PH: (949) 305-4200
www.electrosport.com

▼ Hide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Scott Ferguson <scott.ghostt.ferguson@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for your quick response. So it is possible, but how much do I need to machine off the mounting points, is it better to take 3mm off just to be safe? And where exactly do I need to do the machining? Pictures? Drawings? And can I expect the full output from it?

Thank you again,
Scott "Ghostt"Ferguson

On Jan 23, 2015 11:34 AM, "Info - ElectroSport" <info@electrosport.com> wrote:
The ESG636 is for the most part the same size, EXCEPT that its a bit thicker, about 5mm thicker than the stock stator. There is already some room under the flywheel for a bit more thickness, but not all 5mm. You would need to find a way to take about 2-3mm off the side cover so the stator can fit under the flywheel.

Kyle Wood - Sales Manager
-------------------------------------
Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
21 Brookline, Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
PH: (949) 305-4200
www.electrosport.com

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:52 PM, <Electrosport.com-Web-Inquiry@web.electrosport.com> wrote:
es_cf_contact_name: Scott Ferguson
es_cf_contact_email: scott.ghostt.ferguson@gmail.com
es_cf_contact_phone: 2529470059
es_cf_contact_reason: Tech Support
es_cf_contact_subject: ESG636 for a Ninja 250
es_cf_contact_message: I recently read an article on installing your ESG636 stator in a Ninja 250. The article said that some machining was needed to do this. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Alternator_Information So my questions are, what needs to be done to do this? And any other information? I have already upgraded to a MOSFET R/R unit. Thank you Scott "Ghostt" Ferguson
securitycode: izj44

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[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ninjunk

Yeah thats what i figured. If somehow the rectifier was more efficient you could get more current (less voltage drop at current) but it would probably be incremental at best as i'm sure its already pretty efficient.

This would be the 300W ESG636 they were talking about from a zx6. That would be totally worth a bit of machining and 100 bucks to fit in there. If i find myself needing more power i'll look into it and document my results.

http://www.amazon.com/ElectroSport-E.../dp/B000GV7RW2

If the bike really is requiring 120W of power to run, with no EFI and no electric water pump that is pretty insane. I would guess the electric fan is part of that, otherwise i just cant imagine what would be sucking up all that juice.

If the fan really is a huge part of the equation, perhaps adding a 'thermobob' or doing some bypass circuit mods to prevent the fan from kicking on as readily would be worthwhile.

I suppose i dont even know what I would use that would suck up 60+ watts. Maybe i'll hook up one of those 12v cigarette lighter coffee makers so i don't have to suffer the embarassment of parking my ratty little ninjette next to all the GS's and Ducati's at starbucks.

the headlights and tail lights are the biggest draws. i think the headlights are 30 each and the tail light is another 20 with turn signals at like 15 or 20 or something. if you swap over to full LED lighting the bike runs closer to about 20w on average. obviously higher when its charging after using the starter. keep in mind if you switch to a higher output stator without actually using all that power, you're adding a ton of load to the shunt which will burn it up like ghost is talking about. even with a well cooled mosfet. if you're overdriving it, it's going to fail.

[Ghostt]

Without posting Ohm's law to calculate watts, amps, etc.... Use this handy online calculator,

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohm...calculator.php

[InvisiBill]

If you're looking at doing a PnP swap to the factory connector, the FH016 off the '07-'08 ZX6R has wire pigtails rather than the Furukawa connectors. Just chop off what's on it and install whatever matches your harness. http://www.cycleterminal.com/ has similar prices to EB and a pretty good selection, plus they're in the US.

Here's an example with Metri-Pack connectors installed:


It also has a lead to one of the stator wires, which is used to trigger the headlight delay relay. If you're completely bypassing the stock harness (as commonly done on the VN750), that extra wire can be run to the junction box in place of the wire that splits off in the middle of the harness.

Note that on the VN750 (and probably other bikes), the connectors between the stator and the R/R are known to go bad, increasing resistance in the circuit and causing problems. Depending on the condition of your bike's wiring, reusing the stock wiring and/or connectors might be asking for trouble. Replacing the stock open connector with a sealed connector (like Furukawa or Metri-Pack) can improve the circuit and avoid future problems. You can always put a matching connector on your backup stock R/R for PnP ability too. The 500 doesn't seem to have too many issues here, so the 250 is probably fine also, but it's something worth checking while you're in there fixing things up.


Here's the chart I found while researching this a while back.

Model / Output / Source Bike
FH001 / 35A / FJR 1300
FH008EB / 40A / CBR 600 RR
FH010BA / 50A / ZX-10R 04-10, ZX6R 09-11
FH012AA / 50A / FJR 1300, R1
FH012BA / 50A / ZX-14R, ZR1400, GTR1400
FH014AA / 50A / CBR 1000 RR (Onboard Honda connectors, avoid)
FH016AA / 40A / ZX-6R
FH020 / 50A / Replacement for FH012

I've seen our SH530 rated at 20A. But if the stator is only 180W, then 20A is fine anyway. Theoretically the FH units can put out twice as much, but it won't help if the input from the stator is the bottleneck.

One of these days I'll get around to actually getting mine installed... I think the most recent roadblock is the wider mounting holes on the new R/R itself.

[Ghostt]

Agreed Bill,
my intention is to do a complete wiring kit from the stator, then to the battery, bypassing the factory wiring all together, courtesy of kits from Eastern Beaver.

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html

For those whom want the whole kit including a new FH020 I would suggest the one from Moto-Electric

http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com...-rectifier-kit

[alex.s]

those cables look nice

[Ghostt]

Yes they are, as I said that's the next step, just saving my pennies for now, but for now the pigtail is working fine.

[ninjunk]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I've e-mailed ElectroSports, and here it is their response on using the ESG636 Stator;

Thats awesome, thanks.
Shouldn't be too hard to find 5mm of room under there.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by ninjunk

Thats awesome, thanks.
Shouldn't be too hard to find 5mm of room under there.

if I do this I'll pick up another stator cover off eBay, their cheap enough for sure, the real cost is the stator itself, I was also considering picking up an OEM stator from a 636 as I imagine those are also cheap, about 1/2 the price of a new aftermarket one.

This is a backburner project due to lack of funding.

[FrugalNinja250]

The OEM VR/R died on my 2006 around the 55K mark by intermittently going up to 17-19 volts. When it did I'd pull in the clutch to idle the engine and hit the high beam and brake lights, and the extra load combined with low output would snap it back down to a more normal 13-14V range. Over a few months it got progressively worse until I decided to replace it with a used low-mileage spare I had. I'm at 78K and it seems to be working properly. I did convert all bulbs over to LED except for the headlamp, mainly to free up wattage to use my 40W electric heated gloves.

What is this regulator assembly off of?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

The OEM VR/R died on my 2006 around the 55K mark by intermittently going up to 17-19 volts. When it did I'd pull in the clutch to idle the engine and hit the high beam and brake lights, and the extra load combined with low output would snap it back down to a more normal 13-14V range. Over a few months it got progressively worse until I decided to replace it with a used low-mileage spare I had. I'm at 78K and it seems to be working properly. I did convert all bulbs over to LED except for the headlamp, mainly to free up wattage to use my 40W electric heated gloves.

What is this regulator assembly off of?

It was a brand new R/R FH010BA this model has since be updated/replaced with the FH020 unit which is the current model.

[ninjunk]

double post, whoops.

[Ghostt]

As I mentioned above, too much saved wattage/amps is bad for a SHUNT style R/R, as they will literally cook themselves to death, the Mosfet style, manages the wattage/amperage more efficiently

After your next ride, feel how hot your vr is. They get very warm if not hot. They are engineered just good enough for the heat they have to endure. The better way there is no significant heat therefore less stress and less possibility for failure. Its taking something that may very well break and replacing it with something that probably won't ever break. Less heat equals less stress in electronics.

[Ghostt]

RIDE REPORT:

It finally was a nice day, so I put 160 miles on it today.

It worked perfectly, I did notice that the voltage was more constant, even at lower RPMS. Before the upgrade at low RPMs my voltage indicator would go from constant green, to blinking green, not anymore.

The unit itself was much cooler, than the OEM ever was.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

RIDE REPORT:

It finally was a nice day, so I put 160 miles on it today.

It worked perfectly, I did notice that the voltage was more constant, even at lower RPMS. Before the upgrade at low RPMs my voltage indicator would go from constant green, to blinking green, not anymore.

The unit itself was much cooler, than the OEM ever was.

What type of voltage monitor are you using?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

What type of voltage monitor are you using?

one of these, while not a true read out, I have seen a difference, the LED is now solid green all the time now, as compared to before when it would blink all colors, depending on the loads., sometimes without any loads, especially on long trips, when the shunt R/R would get hot, I took this as a sign, for things to come.

Here is my complete write up on the LED.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/blog.php?b=8351

And the link to the item.

http://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae...cts/BIKE-E-12V

Here is also the link to the Main site, they offer a lot of other products, also in different styles, personally I'm going to add the ice warning light, and update the voltage to the auto brightness model.

https://estore-sslserver.eu/gammatro...1-e89006e78fbe

Ice warning unit: http://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae...fbe/Products/F

Hope this answers your questions, I am planning to do a comparison between the R/Rs using a digital volt meter, once the weather warms up, for members whom prefer numbers.

SIDENOTE: complete kit including new FH020 http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com/ And pick up the Metri-Pack 280 Connector Sealed Option for Part B @ http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html

And that should take care of any issues whatsoever.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I was thinking of installing something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Dig...ital+voltmeter

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I was thinking of installing something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Dig...ital+voltmeter

Just as good for sure, I just prefer the light style, easy to just glance at, no need you me to focus my attention on something.