January 9th, 2015, 05:00 AM | #1 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Turbo install
Hi,
Here's a link to my turbo install for those interested. A new project for the new year. Take a look. http://swarfman64.blogspot.com/2015/...o-project.html https://www.ninjette.org/forums/atta...1&d=1420804835 Last futzed with by swarfman64; January 9th, 2015 at 05:59 AM. Reason: poor spacing |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
January 9th, 2015, 05:38 AM | #2 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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January 9th, 2015, 06:06 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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Nice welcome
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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January 9th, 2015, 06:42 AM | #4 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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When will we see dyno numbers!
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January 9th, 2015, 01:26 PM | #6 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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awesomeness
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Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
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January 9th, 2015, 03:06 PM | #7 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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January 9th, 2015, 03:36 PM | #8 |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
Location: MA
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 CBR600rr, 1987 KLR 250 Posts: A lot.
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Awesome man! Looking forward to that dyno!
Btw nice EFI conversion!
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January 9th, 2015, 08:06 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tim
Location: NJ
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 47
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Sweet build. I want to hear that WG dump. What are you planning on going with? I know Turbosmart is in your neck of the woods. I run their 38mm wg on the racecar. Any idea of a wideband you're going to use and where you're going to mount it? What injectors will you use? The ones off the 300?
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January 10th, 2015, 03:35 PM | #10 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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I have just updated my blog to Jan 10 and added dates to sections so its a little easier to re-visit.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 10th, 2015, 03:47 PM | #11 | |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Quote:
Yes the 300 injectors at this stage, they will do fine to get the thing running. I guess it will depend on my will (wallet) to try for big HP. For now its about building a good reliable conversion. I have the Ecotrons ALM unit. It can be integrated into the ecu and log map data, then software is used to overlay that data over your base map. Clever stuff. You can see the wideband is about 75mm from the turbine outlet angled across the front of the crankcase.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 13th, 2015, 04:53 AM | #12 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Well it goes! 10 day build, now for the huge job of tuning. Blog updated and very short video on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ZXoO7qH_Q
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 13th, 2015, 05:03 AM | #13 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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What me fascinates the most besides the speed is the beauty of the build - congratulations
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January 13th, 2015, 05:28 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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Awsome job. Can't wait to see more progress
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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January 13th, 2015, 05:30 AM | #15 | |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Quote:
Ill be happy when the tune is finalised and I can ride it without hassle. Ill try and do a blog on the dyno build very soon for those interested.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 13th, 2015, 06:44 AM | #16 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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Man you put my few month long build to shame!!! I wish I could have gotten my stuff together as quick as yours!
Looking awesome! |
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January 13th, 2015, 09:02 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jay
Location: CT
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Make a few more headers, im sure you can find some buyers
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January 13th, 2015, 09:29 AM | #18 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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hmm...
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January 13th, 2015, 10:48 AM | #19 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jul '16
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damn.
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January 17th, 2015, 06:08 AM | #20 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Quick update, The short exhaust is way too loud for the street, I thought the turbo would quieten it down but not nearly enough. I'v built a new system from the turbo back. 1.75 inch into a straight through muffler. Really nice smooth note and painted black, looks much nicer. Updated on blog
Still waiting for Ecotrons support with the Procal files. Oh....and I've got an '09 engine that's done 700km on its way, Ill prep it for boost in my spare time.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 17th, 2015, 07:09 AM | #21 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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That still looks great! Yeah the dump pipe I have on my turbo 250 is loud but I won't be street riding lol
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January 20th, 2015, 05:37 AM | #22 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Update
Got my files from Ecotrons yesterday. All went well and I have begun basic tuning. Boost comes on around 4000 revs but I'm limited to 6 PSI because of poor ignition. Coil upgrade next. Had some BOV flutter in the transition from deceleration to acceleration so I've fitted a heavier spring and that seems to have fixed it. I also had the rising rate REG "T'd" off the BOV line so the fuel pressure went mad from the pulses in the line during flutter.
during my very limited testing and tuning I can see this is going to be a great street bike, giving the ninja a bucket load of torque. EGT at moderate (less than 25%) throttle was 1050deg.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 20th, 2015, 06:25 AM | #23 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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Awesome!
Hey what kind of timing is ecotrons running? |
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January 20th, 2015, 06:46 AM | #24 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Timing I think is way off, Basic a standard map with a few Deg taken off over about 6500 rpm. I'm going to see if they can do me a pressure retard map, to me it seams the simplest way. Start with the known STD map and just reduce in direct relation to boost.
From what I understand the turbo capable ninja kit from Ecotrons doesn't have any solid maps to go with it, it's all under development......looks like by me! It's almost 1:00 in the morning here and I'm researching stick coils and othe alternatives, man I got it bad.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 20th, 2015, 06:48 AM | #25 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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Racer X is using Takai coils.
would you be willing to post the timing chart online here? I'd like to compare to mine Or let me know what degree's they are running at WOT? |
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January 20th, 2015, 04:21 PM | #26 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Here's a photo of the supplied ignition file. Again there is no evidence that this is a good known ignition MAP.I still believe a pressure retard MAP is the most useful, It directly relates to manifold pressure so changes like turbo types, valve timing and piping (things that can change the time and amount of boost at specific RPM) are compensated for without re mapping. I'm looking at about a 1.5DEG per psi reduction in timing.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 20th, 2015, 05:45 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot.
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That is a good map for naturally asperated engines. For the turbo about three to five less
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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January 20th, 2015, 06:00 PM | #28 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Have you used a map similar? With the vz turbo?
Its only early days in tuning but it seems a little advanced around 4000 and up. Boost is well stared by then. If I could log an actual boost map it would be easier to alter this map in the boost areas. That's why I'd like the simplicity of a boost/rpm retard map I've asked Ecotrons about the coil driving capability of there ECU and I'm waiting a reply. I hope it is going to be happy driving a 1.5 ohm coil (stick coil) without burning out long term(factory is 3 ohm).
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 20th, 2015, 06:43 PM | #29 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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I have used a map similar to that for motors without nitrous. I have the same basic mat but drop to 32 deg after 10000. That is when the nitrous comes in.
I use stick coils from Takai. Don't know the ohm on them but they worked with the Ecotrons system
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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January 20th, 2015, 07:32 PM | #30 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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For information this is the ninja 300 timing chart. From 6 grand and up I put the timing at 30* I tried 25* and no change with my 9,600-10,000rpm limiter im getting. The stock 08 250 is supposed to have 34* timing I believe
I did just change a setting in the ECU and I'm going to give it a try tomorrow. The Woolich software lets you combine both maps so you only have to make your tuning adjustments once and not for each cylinder. Going to see if maybe its not a ECU hangup. Keep up the good work you guys! |
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January 20th, 2015, 07:40 PM | #31 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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I was just looking in the manuals. Figured I'd share....
The 88-07 250 shows max timing of 38* The 08-12 250 shows max timing of 35* The Ninja 300 shows max timing of 31* |
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January 20th, 2015, 07:56 PM | #32 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Here's the information about ignition from the new-gen from what I have
The values of the Thai-Version are from the ecu and the ignition of my Ninja is advanced by 5 degrees, the others are informations I found in the net |
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January 21st, 2015, 06:12 PM | #33 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Thanks for the info' guys. I'm trying a timing map tonight. Basically stock but reducing to 30deg as load and rpm increase. Ran separate wire/fuse/relay directly from battery to coils, Made a marked difference. Did some tuning last night only up to 25% throttle and 9 psi, around 950 deg egt. This is going to make a fast and light street bike! Its got so much torque from 4000 rpm that I'll have to do a major gearing change to use it properly.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 22nd, 2015, 04:59 AM | #34 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Hmmmm, Im getting some serious compressor surge, I think. I'm just checking the preload on the wast gate first but I'm getting pulsing/flutter under moderate throttle. Sounds like comp surge to me. It boosts about 7psi on 100kmh cruise at 1200 deg EGT and a rich 13:1AFR. I'm actually thinking this turbo is a little on the small side. No mapping until I sort the pulsing
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 22nd, 2015, 05:20 AM | #35 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
For a turbo at least you'll be better in the range of 11.5 - 11.8:1 AFR, but when you're changing it then go stepwise like 0.3 to keep it a little bit in the 'soft' range. Good luck |
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January 22nd, 2015, 05:46 AM | #36 | |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Quote:
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:17 AM | #37 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:18 AM | #38 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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What RPM's is it doing it at? My bike cruises with boost as well but I've got it even in the 14.5:1 AFR range and its alright.
Have you dont any WOT runs yet? I wonder if these turbos arent going to cut it? Maybe thats why my bike is only getting to 9600-10,000 and cutting out. The odd thing is is the boost pressures are fine up until it breaks up... Even on the 26pisi runs! |
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January 22nd, 2015, 06:43 AM | #39 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Cruise is 7600 rpm that's at 100kmh (our speed limit). The surge/ flutter happens from about 4500 rpm, sometimes it is a continuation from deceleration flutter that transitions into acceleration. Other times boost may be stable during beginning of acceleration then as boot increases the flutter comes in. Mine will start boost at 3500 rpm, 6PSI by 4200 at under 25% throttle. I'm not condemning it yet but It looks way too small. If it can boost that well at low rpm it's got to pass a lot more exhaust gas by 13000rpm. It's boosting at throttle openings I'd expect no boost at.
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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January 22nd, 2015, 08:05 AM | #40 |
KAWASAKI GURU
Name: Shawn
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863
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Mine is running simliar boost levels on cruise... hmmmm. whats your timing around that area?
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