How do I BP

shereth · February 19th, 2015, 01:20 PM

Ok, so I got to look through some photos of last weekend's trackday event that I attended. While there I was trying not to worry TOO much about things like holding the best lines and being too paranoid about body position, I was aware more often than not that my body positioning was not good, and looking over the photos confirms that fact.

Given that I was specifically trying not to stress it too much on my first day out on the track, and obviously it shows, I am led to wonder : is good body positioning something that you have to be constantly thinking about and aware of? Do you constantly have to remind yourself to loosen up on the bars, lean in over the tank, shift your arse out of the seat and so on? I'm not a little guy and I'm on a little bike so I know the proper positioning isn't going to come the most naturally, but, is it something that eventually becomes second nature?

I'm looking forward to the opportunity to head back and work on some improvement as far as that goes, but I'm wondering what some of the more experienced folks do other than constantly reminding themselves what they are doing wrong and what needs to be done right.

alex.s · February 19th, 2015, 02:03 PM

post pics.

practice makes permanent so if you practice crap BP, you get crap BP.

NDspd · February 19th, 2015, 02:28 PM

What Alex said...it's hard to tell what you are doing wrong if we can't see it.

Look around on youtube, take it with a grain of salt, but just watching motogp vids can help.

shereth · February 19th, 2015, 02:54 PM

Can't post any yet since I haven't decided if I like any enough to buy the rights from, but I can post links for anyone sufficiently motivated to take a peek and offer advice. I've a pretty good idea of what I'm doing wrong, but of course hearing it from people more experienced is good and if it helps me do better down the line it's worth it.

Being my first time, I'd like to think I'm still fresh enough to have not learned too many bad habits and still open to learning good ones

Sirref · February 19th, 2015, 03:31 PM

Ah now this is what novice BP often looks like, my trips to jennings gp have made me greatly misjudge what a novice group pace looks like. Nothing against you, they just don't have a real novice group there in the winter. A few here or there but it's mostly people who would get bumped up to intermediate at a lot of other tracks.

Disclaimer: I am far from the most experienced track rider but I do understand it better than I actually do it so I may be able to help a bit.

3 huge things for you along with a ton of minor things
1. you're crossed up, not really hanging off the bike or leaning with it for that matter. This reduces your available traction significantly
2. you need to lower your upper body closer to the tank, laying on the tank in the straights is the goal but being very close to it is fine. Basically you should always be low. In corners try to put your head lower than your inside handlebar, this is exceedingly difficult to do but the weight of your head + helmet is a significant part of the hanging off equation
3. Actually hang off, move the inside buttcheek off the seat right before you brake and lean your upper body into the corner to match it when you tip in. Dragging knee is flashy and unnecessary a lot of the time, it is not your goal. Being smooth and keeping the bike more upright to hold more corner speed while being safer is.

Smaller things:
your inside wrist should be loose. Try to angle it like you're holding a screwdriver or a bottle.
Your outside arm should rest on the tank, this relaxes your grip on the bars, makes you more relaxed overall, and holds you onto the bike a little bit better. I use my outside foot + knee as well as my outside arm to brace myself on the tank and tend to be very loose on the inside leg and arm.

The goal of body positioning is to keep the bike more upright so you can tip the bike in more to take a corner faster OR take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle (aka less risk), to keep you on the bike, as well as to keep you as relaxed as possible so you don't give the bike conflicting messages that would make it unstable

alex.s · February 19th, 2015, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

Ah now this is what novice BP often looks like, my trips to jennings gp have made me greatly misjudge what a novice group pace looks like. Nothing against you, they just don't have a real novice group there in the winter. A few here or there but it's mostly people who would get bumped up to intermediate at a lot of other tracks.

luls.

op- don't worry about BP for awhile. focus on putting correct input into the bike. you'll know when you need to worry about bp

Sirref · February 19th, 2015, 04:37 PM

^ 2 schools of thought there

bp first or bp after mastering other stuff, both are viable. I just like BP early since everything you do becomes habit quickly

also @alex.s my experience at every other track has been significantly slower in N group. Shenandoah is a technical track so a lot of people are slower for that reason and Mid-O has a school so you don't really focus on trying to put down lap times or anything like that in N there either, just learning. It's probably faster on the west coast since people ride more.

Motofool · February 19th, 2015, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shereth

............. I am led to wonder : is good body positioning something that you have to be constantly thinking about and aware of? Do you constantly have to remind yourself to loosen up on the bars, lean in over the tank, shift your arse out of the seat and so on?......... I'm wondering what some of the more experienced folks do other than constantly reminding themselves what they are doing wrong and what needs to be done right.

Most important things about riding well cannot be seen with the eyes, but felt by your body.
Same for street and for track, how you feel is more important than how you look.

Like with any new habit, you have to repeat an action in order to make it happen automatically and with little use of your attention.
Yes, it is just natural that you have to put effort on repeating that action in the proper manner.

How to brake properly and efficiently in any condition seems to me the number 1 new habit to develop.
Developing proper vision skills is also essential.

Learning the reasons behind smooth control inputs, aft and forward weight distribution, lower body anchoring, relaxed upper body, timing and intensity of steering, limits of traction for each tire, choosing of lines, gear shifting and entry speed will tremendously help you understand your machine and the sensory language that is speaking to you.

In other words, you will become a better rider as you become more educated about and more sensitive to the physics of riding.

csmith12 · February 19th, 2015, 05:22 PM

Alan, was there any classroom time available at your track day? Did you take advantage of the coaches there were out riding with you and in the paddock?

For you next track day, I prescribe doing one with a school component. You will learn much and ask plenty of questions.

In the mean time, just enjoy the track time and do stuff that brings plenty of smiles. If you want something to work on... do these to things. Make sure you are using a confident countersteer to control the bikes direction and a smooth throttle roll throughout the turn. These two things are much more important that bp at your track experience level. And when done well, can afford you the safety buffer to explorer bp with a lesser risk level. Which is why I mostly agree with alex.s here. It's not that Ben is incorrect or anything, I also believe that you should work on things before you need them but in this case... you got to handle the fundamentals before earning style points.

Lemme share this with ya too. Meet Don, a heavier rider on a small bike. This guy is crazy fast and you can be too with enough "seat time with goals" and practice working on skills. He gave my little chicken legged arse a run for my money on plenty of races and was a hellava nice guy to boot.

shereth · February 19th, 2015, 07:26 PM

Thanks for the advice and input everyone, I do appreciate it. I would be the last one to deny that I need to bone up on the fundamentals; I guess seeing yourself looking sloppy in photos tends to make you a little self conscious of the wrong things

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Alan, was there any classroom time available at your track day? Did you take advantage of the coaches there were out riding with you and in the paddock?

They did not have a classroom component but the coaches were helpful, especially helping to find the lines. Apparently there were a lot of first timers this last weekend though so their time and attention was at something of a premium and I didn't get to spend as much time as I wanted picking their brains.

I'll have to look into finding a trackday org that does classroom time, but what about the ERC/ARC courses offered by the MSF? I took the beginner's course a long time ago and it was great, but I don't hear much said about the other courses they offer and what you can get out of them.

Anyway thanks again to everyone who offered input. I had a blast at the track regardless and look forward to going again, but I'll try to worry more about getting the fundamentals down than how I look for the photog!

csmith12 · February 19th, 2015, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shereth

I guess seeing yourself looking sloppy in photos tends to make you a little self conscious of the wrong things

I kinda goes like this... baring any aliens, every track rider has some pictures that look like yours when they first start. It's all good, don't even sweat it.

Sirref · February 19th, 2015, 08:12 PM

^ The ones that look good in their first track day photos probably did some pretty stupid stuff on the streets

sharky nrk · February 19th, 2015, 08:32 PM

I vote just try and mimic Redding lol

LOL

In all reality just listen to all of the comments above. The biggest way to improve BP is to be able to focus on specific aspects of it. But to do that you have to have the attention percentage to focus on an aspect. That means being comfortable, comfortable with yourself, the bike, the track, etc. Comfortable with the basics. And most of the time it means slowing down. If your riding at 9 or 10/10 of YOUR abilty, then your just hanging on and trying to survive. When you knock that that down to 7 or 8/10s of your ability then you can focus on specific aspects of your riding.

Sirref · February 19th, 2015, 08:35 PM

How can he see like that?

Singh2jz · February 19th, 2015, 08:51 PM

This foo trying to drag bicep or tricep? lol

adouglas · February 20th, 2015, 07:32 AM

Visualization helps a lot.

I'm still in novice group on the track, but I spend a lot of time off the bike thinking about this stuff so I don't have to occupy as much of my attention while on the the track.

Think about what you're seeing when you're stiff and upright like you are in your photos. Tank is underneath you, gauges are in front of you. That's your sight picture.

Now take a look at some more aggressive BP pics and think about what those riders are seeing.

Bike is beside them, right? Head is actually just a couple of feet off the ground... maybe less. Watch clips of racers.... look at @csmith12 's avatar. If he were to extend his arm and touch the ground, his elbow would be very bent. How close is his head to the ground?

I started looking at photos of good BP with this in mind an imagining what it must be like to have your face 18-24 inches off the pavement at 60+ mph. Freaky. But that's what's happening. I'm nowhere near that yet. But it feels like I'm really cranked over when I'm out there.

Take your hands and put them in riding position in front of you. Now shift them over and bring them up, so your right wrist is next to the left corner of your jaw. Compare the way this feels with what you see in photos of good BP.

On the bike... when I get off to one side, a key reference point is having my forearm in contact with the tank on the high side. You might be too big to do that.

This is all just little points of reference to cue you. You're "assuming the position" so it's good to know exactly what "the position" feels like.

PS: I have found myself putting way too much pressure on my inside arm, inintentionally trying to hold myself up.

csmith12 · February 20th, 2015, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

How can he see like that?

He don't need to...

Now why on earth would I say a thing like that?!?!?!?!?

csmith12 · February 20th, 2015, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adouglas

Visualization helps a lot.

Now take a look at some more aggressive BP pics and think about what those riders are seeing.

Bike is beside them, right? Head is actually just a couple of feet off the ground... maybe less. Watch clips of racers.... look at @csmith12 's avatar. If he were to extend his arm and touch the ground, his elbow would be very bent. How close is his head to the ground?

I need warning if your gunna call my avatar out. hahahahahhaha And attached is what I see if I look down when my head is at it's lowest. It's scary, freaky, and wicked fun all at the same time.

alex.s · February 20th, 2015, 09:14 AM

i think i actually look down... but my eyes are looking out the side of my visor. trying to wrench your head up is both uncomfortable and counter productive

adouglas · February 20th, 2015, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

I need warning if your gunna call my avatar out. hahahahahhaha And attached is what I see if I look down when my head is at it's lowest. It's scary, freaky, and wicked fun all at the same time.

Awesome that you have the presence of mind and dexterity to pull out a camera and take a photo at times like that....

Sirref · February 20th, 2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

He don't need to...

Now why on earth would I say a thing like that?!?!?!?!?

Because once his line is set he isn't making any changes to it just easing off the brake and starting a throttle roll on at the apex, therefore he prioritizes corner speed (more of which can be attained if he hangs off like that) over vision because he knows where the bike is going to go (to an extent) with his line choice as he turns in. He'll also bring himself and the bike up a bit on exit so vision will be restored when he actually does need it.

alex.s · February 20th, 2015, 11:57 AM

once you know a track, you can tell where you need to be based on smaller clues like the gator teeth or skid marks on the pavement... looking ahead is more about knowing where other bikes are

Sirref · February 20th, 2015, 12:08 PM

I'm just slow then

sharky nrk · February 20th, 2015, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

He don't need to...

Now why on earth would I say a thing like that?!?!?!?!?

Cause if he looked up then he would see how many bikes just yanked him down the straight like he was sitting still lol .......

But now he is on the full fat Honda and the Proddy Honda got its balls back.

adouglas · February 20th, 2015, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

once you know a track, you can tell where you need to be based on smaller clues like the gator teeth or skid marks on the pavement... looking ahead is more about knowing where other bikes are

I thought you just learned to use The Force.

Sirref · February 20th, 2015, 04:38 PM

Don't you be getting pod racing and bike racing confused now

Motofool · February 20th, 2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shereth

Thanks for the advice and input everyone, I do appreciate it. I would be the last one to deny that I need to bone up on the fundamentals; I guess seeing yourself looking sloppy in photos tends to make you a little self conscious of the wrong things

You are welcome

Just like it is natural for a baby to crawl before walking, things are not wrong while we are learning,..... and we are all constantly learning by forcing ourselves to improve today our skills of yesterday.

Read "A twist of the wrist 2" if you have not read it yet, it is a very good book regarding the reasons behind good riding techniques.

Please, check these old threads as well:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116824

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127153

https://ninja250forum.com/forums/sho...d.php?p=709395

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185205

alex.s · February 20th, 2015, 06:27 PM

i practice BP while going straight... you can get way off and lean into the side and all that without actually turning. makes things really obvious. plus you can tell what works and what doesn't based on how far the bike is leaning away from you. you wind up having to steer away from the lean like you're turning the wrong way in order to keep the bike from falling

ally99 · February 24th, 2015, 06:51 PM

I haven't read through the other tips, so I apologize if any of this has been said already.
Grip the tank with your knees while braking for the corner (or any braking ever)
Scoot your butt back on the seat.
Lower your upper body, chest to tank. Use your core and legs (not your arms to lower yourself).
Slide half an ass-cheek off the seat.
You want to? Let that knee hang out.
Nose and eyes pointed toward corner exit.
Loose, loose, loose upper body, grip tank with outside knee.
Kiss the mirror (unless you've taken it off for the track. Then do like @csmith12 and drag elbow.

)

cbinker · February 24th, 2015, 10:46 PM

Honestly, I would say start with good body position so when it comes to going faster all you really need to develop the confidence. Bad habits are difficult to break and can be frustrating while working on them, and may cause some of the enjoyment to be lost.

Spot · February 24th, 2015, 11:49 PM

There are 101 ways to do body position. From GP style to endurance racing (energy conserving) to old school almost counter weighting. I say keep trying different ones and see what works. There are racers faster than me that don't even lean off the bike and at the same time others and hang it all out. My experience of schools, Lee Parks Total Control, Jason Pridmore Star School, Chris Peris 2-on-1, RacersEdge Performance, of all those schools 3 had completely different body positions. So play and have fun with what works best for you.

alex.s · February 25th, 2015, 12:35 AM

adouglas · February 25th, 2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spot

There are 101 ways to do body position. ... So play and have fun with what works best for you.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Spot · February 25th, 2015, 02:05 PM

That will take the weight off your bars

February 19th, 2015, 01:20 PM	#1
shereth ninjette.org member Name: Alan Location: Phoenix Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 73	How do I BP Ok, so I got to look through some photos of last weekend's trackday event that I attended. While there I was trying not to worry TOO much about things like holding the best lines and being too paranoid about body position, I was aware more often than not that my body positioning was not good, and looking over the photos confirms that fact. Given that I was specifically trying not to stress it too much on my first day out on the track, and obviously it shows, I am led to wonder : is good body positioning something that you have to be constantly thinking about and aware of? Do you constantly have to remind yourself to loosen up on the bars, lean in over the tank, shift your arse out of the seat and so on? I'm not a little guy and I'm on a little bike so I know the proper positioning isn't going to come the most naturally, but, is it something that eventually becomes second nature? I'm looking forward to the opportunity to head back and work on some improvement as far as that goes, but I'm wondering what some of the more experienced folks do other than constantly reminding themselves what they are doing wrong and what needs to be done right.

February 19th, 2015, 02:03 PM	#2
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	post pics. practice makes permanent so if you practice crap BP, you get crap BP. __________________________________________________

February 19th, 2015, 03:31 PM	#5
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	Ah now this is what novice BP often looks like, my trips to jennings gp have made me greatly misjudge what a novice group pace looks like. Nothing against you, they just don't have a real novice group there in the winter. A few here or there but it's mostly people who would get bumped up to intermediate at a lot of other tracks. Disclaimer: I am far from the most experienced track rider but I do understand it better than I actually do it so I may be able to help a bit. 3 huge things for you along with a ton of minor things 1. you're crossed up, not really hanging off the bike or leaning with it for that matter. This reduces your available traction significantly 2. you need to lower your upper body closer to the tank, laying on the tank in the straights is the goal but being very close to it is fine. Basically you should always be low. In corners try to put your head lower than your inside handlebar, this is exceedingly difficult to do but the weight of your head + helmet is a significant part of the hanging off equation 3. Actually hang off, move the inside buttcheek off the seat right before you brake and lean your upper body into the corner to match it when you tip in. Dragging knee is flashy and unnecessary a lot of the time, it is not your goal. Being smooth and keeping the bike more upright to hold more corner speed while being safer is. Smaller things: your inside wrist should be loose. Try to angle it like you're holding a screwdriver or a bottle. Your outside arm should rest on the tank, this relaxes your grip on the bars, makes you more relaxed overall, and holds you onto the bike a little bit better. I use my outside foot + knee as well as my outside arm to brace myself on the tank and tend to be very loose on the inside leg and arm. The goal of body positioning is to keep the bike more upright so you can tip the bike in more to take a corner faster OR take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle (aka less risk), to keep you on the bike, as well as to keep you as relaxed as possible so you don't give the bike conflicting messages that would make it unstable __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 19th, 2015, 04:37 PM	#7
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	^ 2 schools of thought there bp first or bp after mastering other stuff, both are viable. I just like BP early since everything you do becomes habit quickly also @alex.s my experience at every other track has been significantly slower in N group. Shenandoah is a technical track so a lot of people are slower for that reason and Mid-O has a school so you don't really focus on trying to put down lap times or anything like that in N there either, just learning. It's probably faster on the west coast since people ride more. __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 19th, 2015, 08:12 PM	#12
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	^ The ones that look good in their first track day photos probably did some pretty stupid stuff on the streets __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 19th, 2015, 02:28 PM	#3
NDspd 1/4 English, 3/4 Kick Ass Name: Jeremy Location: Dayton, OH Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Triumph Speed Triple 955i, '05 Suzuki SV650S(retired), '11 Ninja 250R(sold) Posts: A lot.	What Alex said...it's hard to tell what you are doing wrong if we can't see it. Look around on youtube, take it with a grain of salt, but just watching motogp vids can help.

February 19th, 2015, 02:54 PM	#4
shereth ninjette.org member Name: Alan Location: Phoenix Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 73	Can't post any yet since I haven't decided if I like any enough to buy the rights from, but I can post links for anyone sufficiently motivated to take a peek and offer advice. I've a pretty good idea of what I'm doing wrong, but of course hearing it from people more experienced is good and if it helps me do better down the line it's worth it. Being my first time, I'd like to think I'm still fresh enough to have not learned too many bad habits and still open to learning good ones http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h1590a2f8 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h1fb4e6a8 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...0a2f8#hb5310c3 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...0a2f8#h74df1b2 http://www.racersphoto.com/p698713319/h1590a2f8#h38ee9a http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h37234842 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h2a222dd4 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h313142d8 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h22a6f88d http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h35fc9e9e http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h2d604e78 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h23ade209 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h304c7103 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h2101f83c http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h39a69191 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h28b89fb3 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h30a0aca6 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h348c1d75 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h3b054249 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h3dd72460 http://www.racersphoto.com/p69871331...a2f8#h3460878e

February 19th, 2015, 08:32 PM	#13
sharky nrk Fighting Texas Aggie '05 Name: Neil Location: Hutto, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.	I vote just try and mimic Redding lol LOL In all reality just listen to all of the comments above. The biggest way to improve BP is to be able to focus on specific aspects of it. But to do that you have to have the attention percentage to focus on an aspect. That means being comfortable, comfortable with yourself, the bike, the track, etc. Comfortable with the basics. And most of the time it means slowing down. If your riding at 9 or 10/10 of YOUR abilty, then your just hanging on and trying to survive. When you knock that that down to 7 or 8/10s of your ability then you can focus on specific aspects of your riding. __________________________________________________ Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

February 19th, 2015, 08:35 PM	#14
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	How can he see like that? __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 19th, 2015, 08:51 PM	#15
Singh2jz ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Inderveer Location: San Jose Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '07 ex250-F/J Posts: A lot.	This foo trying to drag bicep or tricep? lol __________________________________________________ The Bike \| The Truck

February 20th, 2015, 07:32 AM	#16
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	Visualization helps a lot. I'm still in novice group on the track, but I spend a lot of time off the bike thinking about this stuff so I don't have to occupy as much of my attention while on the the track. Think about what you're seeing when you're stiff and upright like you are in your photos. Tank is underneath you, gauges are in front of you. That's your sight picture. Now take a look at some more aggressive BP pics and think about what those riders are seeing. Bike is beside them, right? Head is actually just a couple of feet off the ground... maybe less. Watch clips of racers.... look at @csmith12 's avatar. If he were to extend his arm and touch the ground, his elbow would be very bent. How close is his head to the ground? I started looking at photos of good BP with this in mind an imagining what it must be like to have your face 18-24 inches off the pavement at 60+ mph. Freaky. But that's what's happening. I'm nowhere near that yet. But it feels like I'm really cranked over when I'm out there. Take your hands and put them in riding position in front of you. Now shift them over and bring them up, so your right wrist is next to the left corner of your jaw. Compare the way this feels with what you see in photos of good BP. On the bike... when I get off to one side, a key reference point is having my forearm in contact with the tank on the high side. You might be too big to do that. This is all just little points of reference to cue you. You're "assuming the position" so it's good to know exactly what "the position" feels like. PS: I have found myself putting way too much pressure on my inside arm, inintentionally trying to hold myself up. __________________________________________________ I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.

February 20th, 2015, 09:14 AM	#19
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i think i actually look down... but my eyes are looking out the side of my visor. trying to wrench your head up is both uncomfortable and counter productive __________________________________________________

February 20th, 2015, 11:57 AM	#22
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	once you know a track, you can tell where you need to be based on smaller clues like the gator teeth or skid marks on the pavement... looking ahead is more about knowing where other bikes are __________________________________________________

February 20th, 2015, 12:08 PM	#23
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	I'm just slow then __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 20th, 2015, 04:38 PM	#26
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	Don't you be getting pod racing and bike racing confused now __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

February 20th, 2015, 06:27 PM	#28
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i practice BP while going straight... you can get way off and lean into the side and all that without actually turning. makes things really obvious. plus you can tell what works and what doesn't based on how far the bike is leaning away from you. you wind up having to steer away from the lean like you're turning the wrong way in order to keep the bike from falling __________________________________________________
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February 24th, 2015, 06:51 PM	#29
ally99 Ninja chick Name: Allyson Location: Athens, GA Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 4 MOTM - Dec '13, Feb '15	I haven't read through the other tips, so I apologize if any of this has been said already. Grip the tank with your knees while braking for the corner (or any braking ever) Scoot your butt back on the seat. Lower your upper body, chest to tank. Use your core and legs (not your arms to lower yourself). Slide half an ass-cheek off the seat. You want to? Let that knee hang out. Nose and eyes pointed toward corner exit. Loose, loose, loose upper body, grip tank with outside knee. Kiss the mirror (unless you've taken it off for the track. Then do like @csmith12 and drag elbow. ) __________________________________________________ Sometimes it's the journey that teaches you a lot about your destination. ~Drake Check out my Appalachian Trail journal, 2015! Postwhores are COOL! ~Allyson

February 24th, 2015, 10:46 PM	#30
cbinker Track Clown Name: Chris Location: Kingman, AZ Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot. MOTM - Sep '15	Honestly, I would say start with good body position so when it comes to going faster all you really need to develop the confidence. Bad habits are difficult to break and can be frustrating while working on them, and may cause some of the enjoyment to be lost. __________________________________________________ TEAM ALFALFA www.apexassassins.com

February 24th, 2015, 11:49 PM	#31
Spot ninjette.org member Name: JOHNNY Location: Somerton AZ Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 250r / RC31 / XR100 / CANNONDALE SCALPEL Posts: 16	There are 101 ways to do body position. From GP style to endurance racing (energy conserving) to old school almost counter weighting. I say keep trying different ones and see what works. There are racers faster than me that don't even lean off the bike and at the same time others and hang it all out. My experience of schools, Lee Parks Total Control, Jason Pridmore Star School, Chris Peris 2-on-1, RacersEdge Performance, of all those schools 3 had completely different body positions. So play and have fun with what works best for you.

February 25th, 2015, 12:35 AM	#32
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	__________________________________________________

February 25th, 2015, 02:05 PM	#34
Spot ninjette.org member Name: JOHNNY Location: Somerton AZ Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 250r / RC31 / XR100 / CANNONDALE SCALPEL Posts: 16	That will take the weight off your bars
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