Solving some issues with my first ninja

[Goatsby]

Hello everyone! I'd like to introduce myself and my bike, a 2006 EX250 with 18k miles on the clock. I purchased this bike saturday for 1100 USD and is my first bike.



I've just ridden up and down the street so far and I've noticed a ton of hestitation on the bottom end, going so far as to die out if I like the bike coast. I figured that since the bike has started once in the past 6-8 months that it would need a good carb cleaning, as gas was allowed to sit in the bike.

I'd also like to point out that one of the previous owners had installed a full muzzy exhaust system and pod filters. From what I understand, if the carbs were not rejetted this could also have an effect on really poor low speed performance? Would it be worth the trouble of hunting down a stock airbox and filter and replacing the two pods?

With the clutch lever fully depressed, should I be able to roll the bike freely and easily in first gear? Thanks everyone.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

There will still be drag if the bike is in gear, I would reccomend a full carb clean and rebuild, if the pilots look shotty replace them. Replace the fuel mixture screws. If you have stock needles I'd get a jetkit (I run dynojet) but atleast change mains and shim the needles to the popular setup for pods and a muzzy.

[SLOWn60]

With 18k; you should check your valves unless you know for sure they were checked before. But I'd still check them. It's not hard to do.

I almost forgot! Welcome!!!

[Goatsby]

Alright thanks for the info, I'll do that!

[csmith12]

Welcome Kris!

It sometimes takes a little time to "wake" these bikes back up after a long slumber in storage. Run the bike a bit more before jumping into a full carb clean. It just might save you some work. Check the airbox and such while your at it.

If nah... then yea, carb clean time.

Good luck!

[jkv45]

First thing I would do is drain the tank and floatbowls completely, then refill with fresh 87 octane (no ethanol if possible) and 1oz per gal of a strong fuel system cleaner like Chevron Techron Concentrate.

Then I would check to see if the idle mixture caps have been removed. If so, check the setting. They should be in the 2.5 turns-out range - maybe more if it's cold or you are running gas with ethanol. Once the engine is warm, and hopefully running pretty well, set the idle speed to 1300 RPMs.

Chances are you could make some adjustments and re-jet, but you can get it to run fine with pods. I prefer an airbox, but the Ninja's is pretty crude, so it's not as important as some other models. We have one with pods and one without, and both run fine from idle to redline and beyond. Running pods does make it a lot louder when you open it up, and the Muzzy isn't really quiet either.

I would plan to change the oil and filter if you don't know when it was done last or what oil is in it. Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 is a good all-around choice.

This page has a lot of technical info concerning carb adjustments and cleaning, among other things - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

[Motofool]

Welcome, Kris !!!

Carbs need deep cleaning:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

Start there and see how it works after that.
Then, perform a full service, like if nothing has been done before:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Service_Schedule

The clutch is multi-disc in oil bath, so there is always drag, more when the oil is cold.

[Goatsby]

Wow that is definitely more help than I expected, you guys are a helpful lot! I'm going to go through the service on the wiki and start off with a good carb cleaning, doing the oil, and adjusting the valves.

[CarbonElite]

Let us know how it turns out, nice pickup!

[Goatsby]

Tore down one carb to see what I'm dealing with.



Doesn't look terrifically clean...



The jets. The main is 114 and the pilot is 48. I noticed the needle has a little clip, I'm assuming that a jet kit was installed on this bike? Does that sound like it's in the right direction for a desert environment at 2,000 feet abouce sea level?

I took out the diaphragm and slider, after I repeat the process on the other side, is the carb safe for dipping in a cleaner of some sort? I was thinking chem dip.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

Tore down one carb to see what I'm dealing with.



Doesn't look terrifically clean...



The jets. The main is 114 and the pilot is 48. I noticed the needle has a little clip, I'm assuming that a jet kit was installed on this bike? Does that sound like it's in the right direction for a desert environment at 2,000 feet abouce sea level?

I took out the diaphragm and slider, after I repeat the process on the other side, is the carb safe for dipping in a cleaner of some sort? I was thinking chem dip.

Are you sure it has a 48 pilot? It should have a 38 (maybe 40, but 38 is stock).

I've soaked my carbs in buckets of carb cleaner overnight no problem, just keep the carb slides out, the diphrams get soft and hard to work with.

[Goatsby]

Oops, it's a 42, not a 48.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

Oops, it's a 42, not a 48.

I reccomend to start with get a keihn 38 piolt and set the idle mixture screws to 2.5 turns out. (I run 38 with 3 turns out). Are your mains genuine keihn mains? I don't think keihn makes a 114, they should make 112,115,118,120.

[Goatsby]

I have no clue, according to some googling it might've come all together with a DJ jet kit. The needles are of the adjustable clip type instead of the OEM.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

I have no clue, according to some googling it might've come all together with a DJ jet kit. The needles are of the adjustable clip type instead of the OEM.

Its defiantly a dynojet jet kit. I Run the 114s, clip in the 3rd position, and 38 pilots 3 turns out.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

This should be a download link to the instructions that came with the kit. http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/2138.pdf&...3E7FcbohahANLQ

[Goatsby]

That link is dead but I'll see if I can find it. Should I order a pair of 38s before I bother putting the carbs back together after cleaning?

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

That link is dead but I'll see if I can find it. Should I order a pair of 38s before I bother putting the carbs back together after cleaning?

Set your valves while you're waiting!
You want to set your valves before fiddling with carb adjustments

[Goatsby]

That was the plan, I just have to hunt down my feeler gauges!

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

That link is dead but I'll see if I can find it. Should I order a pair of 38s before I bother putting the carbs back together after cleaning?

http://bit.ly/1QTaJc0 Try this one. And yeah I'd probably order a pair from jetsrus.com or pick them up from a local stealership that way I know they are genuine keihns.

[Goatsby]

That works, thanks. Hah, would you look at that, dynojet is literally located down the street.

[Goatsby]

Alright, I got the carbs apart, cleaned em, then put em back together today. She runs a lot better down low but won't idle know, probably going to have to fiddle with the tuning. I also got to get her up in the higher RPMs a little for the first time, it feels so nice! Would you guys recommend switching to a 38 on the pilot jet size over the 42?

[Sarge1992]

Did you adjust the idle screws 2 1/2 turns out?

[Goatsby]

Yeah, 2.5 from bottoming out. Also, I had a hard time telling from the parts diagram, does the metal washer on the idle mixture needles go closest to threads on the screw, or does the rubber washer?

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

Yeah, 2.5 from bottoming out. Also, I had a hard time telling from the parts diagram, does the metal washer on the idle mixture needles go closest to threads on the screw, or does the rubber washer?

I'm like 97% sure the order goes carbs, rubber o ring, washer, mixture screw, but @ducatiman would know.

[Goatsby]

Alright, that's the way I put it. Maybe the idle is too low, or the mixture needles need to come out more? The bike won't run without full choke, but i've only started it once, the battery is completely dead. I used the parts diagram to help me make sure everything went back together properly otherwise.

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

Yeah, 2.5 from bottoming out. Also, I had a hard time telling from the parts diagram, does the metal washer on the idle mixture needles go closest to threads on the screw, or does the rubber washer?

hold the pilot screw, tip upwards, slide the spring on, next washer, finally oring.....install *as an assembly* working upwards into pilot screw orifice.


Note... working downwards (with carbs upside down on bench) increases the likelihood of the oring and washer dislodging and mangling deep within the orifice.

You did install the spring, right?

If bike runs only with choke...something within your pilot system is suspect...jet metering openings or pilot passageways

[Goatsby]

I installed mixture srews their springs and their washers by only working upwards because I didn't want the rubber o-ring to get smooshed. Bottomed them out then backed them two and a half turns.

[jkv45]

Did you completely drain the fuel out? What gas are you running? What is the temp there?

If it won't idle without choke you still have some adjustment to do or the carb is not clean.

Go to 3 turns out, and after it's warm, set the idle speed to 1300.

A dead battery will give you odd running problems as well, so I would take care of that before going much farther. It should show 12.7V or more when standing (after a few hours if it has been running) and should give around 11V during cranking.

A new battery may need to be charged before use, keep that in mind if you replace it.

[Goatsby]

Yes, I completely drained the fuel tank and bought new 87 octane. I have a battery on order, I put it on the charger and drops to like 6v after a few seconds of cranking. I'm going to wait for the battery to come in from ebay, and do the valve adjustment and replace the spark plugs. The bike idled before so I think it might have something to do with the tuning.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

I know it shouldn't, but on my bike the needle effects the idle mixture. So if the pilot or the needle is off, I could never get the bike to idle.

[Goatsby]

I found out that it's generally helpful to actually have the idle screw touching the bracket that controls the butterflies... The bike will now idle with no choke. It still feels pretty poor down low, i'll give it a good bit of throttle and it'll hesitate around 3-5k before going on as normal. That has nothing to do with the exhaust system and pod filters, and is most likely carb tuning, correct? I also figured out why my muzzy is so loud, someone cut a square hole in it for some reason!

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

I found out that it's generally helpful to actually have the idle screw touching the bracket that controls the butterflies... The bike will now idle with no choke. It still feels pretty poor down low, i'll give it a good bit of throttle and it'll hesitate around 3-5k before going on as normal. That has nothing to do with the exhaust system and pod filters, and is most likely carb tuning, correct? I also figured out why my muzzy is so loud, someone cut a square hole in it for some reason!

Yeah it sounds like a jetting issue. what do you mean idle screw touching the throttle bracket? If you are talking about the idle speed screw, the only thing that it does it keep the butterflies slightly open to set the idle speed. (1500 rpm is a good idle for you).

[Goatsby]

The idle speed screw was completely backed out, yes.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

The idle speed screw was completely backed out, yes.

Well that would defiantly cause a problem with your idle. Mine is about 1/8" depressed into the butterflies. Start the bike and ride it to get it up to temp, once its up to temp try to get the idle at close to 1500 as you can, if it has to be higher, just get is as low as you can. Adjust the mixture screws while blipping the throttle, if when you let go of the throttle the idle speed drops below your set speed then tighten the mixture screws, if when you let go the speed hangs then falls to idle loosen the mixture screws. I recommend adjusting the screws a half turn at a time until you get it close.

[Goatsby]

Thanks, I'll try that after I get the battery and spark plugs in.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

I found out that it's generally helpful to actually have the idle screw touching the bracket that controls the butterflies... The bike will now idle with no choke. It still feels pretty poor down low, i'll give it a good bit of throttle and it'll hesitate around 3-5k before going on as normal. That has nothing to do with the exhaust system and pod filters, and is most likely carb tuning, correct? I also figured out why my muzzy is so loud, someone cut a square hole in it for some reason!

When you are tuning, think of it in terms of throttle position and not just RPMs.

Like - "it feels flat up to 1/4 throttle, then hesitates until it passes 1/2 throttle, then pulls strong at WOT".

Adjust the idle mixture screws to get clean running in the under-1/4 throttle range, the needle adjustment (clip or washers) for the 1/2 throttle range, and the Main Jet for top end (WOT). Generally you want to get the Main Jet correct first, then make the other adjustments. If you are backed-out more than 3 turns on the idle mixture screws you could go to a richer Pilot Jet.

[Goatsby]

I just noticed that there's a dent in the gas tank from where the plastic piece on the left handlebar made contact with it, I'm assuming when the bike was dropped before. I also now realize that the handles turn quite a bit more left than right. Should I be concerned?

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Goatsby

I just noticed that there's a dent in the gas tank from where the plastic piece on the left handlebar made contact with it, I'm assuming when the bike was dropped before. I also now realize that the handles turn quite a bit more left than right. Should I be concerned?

How mechanically inclined are you? If you feel comfortable supporting the bike, taking the front wheel off, forks off, triple trees off, greasing the steering stem bearings, reassembling and torquing to spec I would reccomend it. Its likely just the forks twisted in the triple clamps, and you don't need to do thus, but it wouldn't hurt. Also it might be bent bar mounts, do the grips look straight with the forks, how about the wheel?

[Goatsby]

The left bar looks bent. The bike tracks straight and doesn't seem to turn easier left or right. I'm not terribly mechanically inclined, I've only done the carbs, adjusted the valves, done a few engine swaps in cars, rebuilt a few transmission and built an engine, etc.