Octane, Money and You??? What do you run in your 250 and why?

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You shouldn't expect to find no ethanol in CA...

Nope.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

That's not really correct, because you are confusing the slow burning with the "slow to burn".

Are you sure you aren't confusing octane with cetane?

Lets put it this way, if our mythbusters pour a 100 foot long trough full of 87 regular and a second one full of 100LL avgas, and light one end of each at the same time, which flame will get to the end first?

My money is on the 87 regular.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Are you sure you aren't confusing octane with cetane?

Lets put it this way, if our mythbusters pour a 100 foot long trough full of 87 regular and a second one full of 100LL avgas, and light one end of each at the same time, which flame will get to the end first?

My money is on the 87 regular.

That may or may not be significant, since gas burning from a gas state and gas burning from a liquid state may not be the same thing.

But yes, I know the difference between octane and cetane, though they are similar rating.


The point is that the higher octane gasoline can be compressed more without it lighting off on it's own, which is why it is required for higher compression motors.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Are you sure you aren't confusing octane with cetane?

Lets put it this way, if our mythbusters pour a 100 foot long trough full of 87 regular and a second one full of 100LL avgas, and light one end of each at the same time, which flame will get to the end first?

My money is on the 87 regular.

That's deflagaration not detonation.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Panda

That's deflagaration not detonation.

Yes technically speaking, deflagaration is what makes the flame spread inside a cylinder that pushes the piston down. But you're right about the gaseous vs liquid differences. Still, my money is on the 87 regular.

In any event, the bottom line is that you don't need anything higher than 87 in your Ninja. Supersports have labels that read "90 octane or higher only". I've never owned one so I can't tell you if they run on 87 or not.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

A diesel doesn't even have a fuel charge when it compresses so there can never be compressive pre-detonation in a diesel.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/diesel1.htm

I stand corrected. Ya learn something new every day.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by corralhollowkid

Point well made ... But its gonna take me about 6 tanks to save enuff for a beer

gotta love the ninja
Posted via Mobile Device

not at the VFW thats atleast 1 beer per tank

[rcruz17]

I put 93 because I saw somewhere that it said 91 minimum octane....plus it makes me feel like im keeping my carbs clean with clean fuel.... anyone ever add additive to their tank to clean carbs?

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by rcruz17

I put 93 because I saw somewhere that it said 91 minimum octane....plus it makes me feel like im keeping my carbs clean with clean fuel.... anyone ever add additive to their tank to clean carbs?

Higher octane means higher octane, not cleaner.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by rcruz17

I put 93 because I saw somewhere that it said 91 minimum octane....plus it makes me feel like im keeping my carbs clean with clean fuel.... anyone ever add additive to their tank to clean carbs?

The recommended octane on the 250 is 87. The supersports say 90.

[Jiggles]

It says 91 for those stupid European numbers, they always overestimate ****. It's 87

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by kkim

[JohnnyBravo]

Ethanol free when I can find it, 87 when I ain't gota run premium to be ethanol free...
Nice bump

[NevadaWolf]

Standard ol cheap stuff. Whatever the regular octane is at the station I happen to stop at.

[CC Cowboy]

I use aviation fuel whenever I can get it (I hear it can make the bike fly). Problem is I have never been able to get it.

[kirk595x]

87 unless I have to stop at Arco or some other cheap fuel station, then I use 91. I also add Startron once a week.

[DEFY]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I use aviation fuel whenever I can get it (I hear it can make the bike fly). Problem is I have never been able to get it.

I think there is a real life experience about this on family guy, totally true. lol

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by DEFY

I think there is a real life experience about this on family guy, totally true. lol

It could only happen in Rhode Island. Everything is on the black market there.

[mataleo]

i just got 300cc se in thailand

kawasaki told me 95 is better for it (thats 91 in usa i think)

here thay do 91 gasohol petrol with ethanol

not sure 95 contain it

[mataleo]

in manual it says minimum 87 octanes / 91 europe

and it says gasohol with up to 10% of ethanol is aproved

and no more then 5% methanol

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by mataleo

in manual it says minimum 87 octanes / 91 europe

and it says gasohol with up to 10% of ethanol is aproved

and no more then 5% methanol

Follow the manual!

[Twitchy Stitch]

So I have a 2007 ninja 250r and I've been feeding her premium...Should I keep doing that or stop???

[DaBlue1]

Ethanol free 87 Octane is all you need (if you can get). It's worth the few extra cents if it's not too high. For our bikes, it makes a little more power, lasts longer an is not subject to issues as much as gasoline with ethanol.

Throw in some Iridium Spark plugs and enjoy the ride.

Good reading material- https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...&postcount=548

[ForceofWill]

Put 87 in the bike. You want to run the lowest octane fuel you can get away with, which for us is 87.

If you can't readily get pure gas, don't fret about it. Nearly everywhere is E10 now.

[dfox]

87.

as stated above, ethanol free is better, but don't worry about it. Use Stabil if it's going to sit longer than a few weeks to prevent water absorption.

Gas stations advertising higher octane gas as "premium" is quite silly. It doesn't "burn cleaner" or any garbage like that. It simply is harder to combust. That helps if you are running higher compression, or forced induction (turbo) but on the ninjette, 87 is ideal.

You'll get a more complete burn using the lowest octane that your vehicle is designed for. And that's good for all sorts of reasons. Vehicle performance, emissions, etc.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Ethanol free 87 Octane is all you need (if you can get). It's worth the few extra cents if it's not too high. For our bikes, it makes a little more power, lasts longer an is not subject to issues as much as gasoline with ethanol.

Throw in some Iridium Spark plugs and enjoy the ride.

Good reading material- https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...&postcount=548

That article was written by a local race shop owner/rider/fabricator that I've known for over 30 years. He knows his stuff, and is all business - no BS. Anything he recommends has been thoroughly tested - they have a dyno - and is stated in "layman's terms" rather than technical terms so it's easier to follow.

Per his recommendation - 87 without ethanol is always the winner for the Ninja.

He could update that article to include "America's Fastest Ducati" as well as "America's Quickest Ducati" . He has gone 212+ at Bonneville since that was written. My shop has coated parts on both of the bikes.

Here's a link to the Tech Tips page with more info and maintenance tips - http://www.motorcycleperf.com/TechTips/TechTips.html

[Alex]

/merged with existing mongo "octane" thread

[rojoracing53]

Funny this thread pops back up just as my dad asked me to make some more ethanol free gas for his landscaping equipment. Every 6 months or so I take some 91 and pull the ethanol out with a little bit of water to make ethanol free 88-89 octane.

As for the ninja a go with 87 and it's still going strong after 45k miles. I never stop ridding it but every year I run a tank of seafoam through it and a little in the oil right before changing it. I've never had my bottom end off but every time I inspect my valves the coating of oil looks nice and clean.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Funny this thread pops back up just as my dad asked me to make some more ethanol free gas for his landscaping equipment. Every 6 months or so I take some 91 and pull the ethanol out with a little bit of water to make ethanol free 88-89 octane.

As for the ninja a go with 87 and it's still going strong after 45k miles. I never stop ridding it but every year I run a tank of seafoam through it and a little in the oil right before changing it. I've never had my bottom end off but every time I inspect my valves the coating of oil looks nice and clean.

Come to NY we have ethanol free 91

[cbinker]

premium, because it is usually ethanol free.

[Ducati999]

Well I know this has been said before but here goes. All gas is the same! The higher octane numbers are just chemicals they add to slow the burn rate (slightly) in the cylinder. The little ninja has low (for a bike) compression so 87 octane is fine and actually better. You get more power with less octane! The higher octane is only good for highly tuned motors with timming advance and high compression. Turbo motors have lower compression but force more air/fuel into the cyl so they (some) require higher octane. When an engine is highly tuned for power it becomes more important when and how fast the fuel burns and this is where the higher numbers give an advantage. The rule of thumb is to use the lowest octane possible until knock occurs. Using anything higher will not hurt the engine (may see lower power or mileage) but it will not get you any benefits. Lots of the newer high performance bikes have <12.1 compression ratios and run timming advance to the max depending on RPM vs throttle position/load that is why they require higher octane. Cars are a different animal all together. So unless you have had motor work, heads ported and the jetting changed on your bike, run 87 and save your money.

Ride happy
Ant

[Linkin]

91 stuff, Australian standard. Whatever that is.

I'd prefer 95 but the local servo doesn't have it.

[Ninjinsky]

95 which is the lowest here.
let me explain.....
There is no point using anything higher because pregen Ninjas don't have an engine management system to adjust the timing.
You can put 99 in but you wont get any more power because without knock sensors and management all the timing stays right where it was before.

[TheRidingSparky]

So these of you who read my welcome know that I just purchased a new 2015 300, the owners manual says nothing less than 87. Would it be more beneficial to the engine and overall power to put 94 with NO ethanol in it? Or should I save myself the few extra bucks and go 87 WITH ethanol?

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by TheRidingSparky

So these of you who read my welcome know that I just purchased a new 2015 300, the owners manual says nothing less than 87. Would it be more beneficial to the engine and overall power to put 94 with NO ethanol in it? Or should I save myself the few extra bucks and go 87 WITH ethanol?

Running any higher octane than is recommended is a waste of money UNLESS you get a programmer and have it tuned for the fuel.

Just run good old 87 pump gas.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by TheRidingSparky

So these of you who read my welcome know that I just purchased a new 2015 300, the owners manual says nothing less than 87. Would it be more beneficial to the engine and overall power to put 94 with NO ethanol in it? Or should I save myself the few extra bucks and go 87 WITH ethanol?

No ethanol 87 is best
No ethanol 94 is better than 87 with, but if all grades have ethanol then use 87.

I have 34,000 miles on my '13 300 and it has not seen anything but 87 with ethanol but I do run a tank with seafoam about every oil change and all winter.

[csmith12]

Save the coins. Your bike will not gain any real additional performance from the higher priced gas.

To give you some homework to think about, google octane rating and ignition timing or more commonly referred to as spark advance. In bikes, this (and fuel mapping at specific rpms) is tweaked with products such as bizzaz, power commander or ECU flashing.

[adouglas]

Here we go again....

Premium won't hurt your bike. It will hurt your wallet.

Ethanol over the very long term reportedly causes issues with O-rings, plastic and such.

So it comes down to a cost/benefit question.

Here's my $0.02:

Millions of people have put billions of miles on engines running typical "no more than 10%" ethanol-blended fuel.

How many people do you know who've had car trouble traceable to ethanol in the fuel?

I don't know about anyone else, but my last four cars were all run on pump regular after they started blending at the end of the 1980s. Collectively they've taken me more than 650,000 miles -- so far -- with ZERO fuel-related issues. As in NO IMPACT of ethanol on the engines or fuel systems that resulted in a failure of any kind whatsoever.

Now, absence of proof is not proof of absence. There is documented proof that ethanol damages fuel systems in various ways. The real question is whether that matters or not in the real world. My personal experience is that it doesn't.

Is your goal to maximize engine life? Engines do wear out, ethanol or not. The question here is when, and whether any reduction in life span matters. The number of engines that actually reach end of life before the vehicle is sold or crashed is miniscule compared to the total number of engines in use. If you want an engine to last forever, pickle it and never start the damned thing.

Since you have access to unblended fuel, go for it if it makes you happy. You will spend more and get peace of mind that you're using 100% pure dino juice in your bike.

Will your bike run a lot better? Not really.

Will it get better gas mileage? Yes, because the energy density of ethanol is lower. But drastically better? Not really, and definitely not enough to offset the added cost.

Will your bike last longer? Aside from the high likelihood of you moving on long before it wears out (thus making the question moot), in theory yes, but not that much (willing to be proven wrong, but any counter must be supported by actual evidence, not mere assertion).

Will you make more power? See above about energy density. Will you notice? Probably not.

This opinion is based entirely on personal experience, observation and plain old common sense. Take from it what you will. It's worth every penny you've paid for it.

[jkv45]

I vote for the lowest octane that doesn't contain ethanol.

I have ethanol-free 87 octane available, but if I don't I'll go for the next lowest octane without.

Gas with ethanol won't damage most newer engines, but it has disadvantages. If your cycle has a carb, gas with ethanol will make your mixture leaner, which it may be already if it hasn't been adjusted, so running ethanol-free may give you better running and performance. Ethanol-free will also give you better mileage, but at increased cost, so it may be close to even.

[LittleRedNinjette]

These are always entertaining.

FWIW i have only ever run premium in my bikes. Burns cleaner (as per my mechanic and other half) and gives me the warm fuzzies.

it's more or less personal preference.