When are you no longer a beginner?

[Hero Danny]

about approximately what amount of miles + time do you consider is required for someone to finally no longer become a "beginner".

Disclaimer, I am well aware that we are all different and it's impossible to measure experience in just miles or years, etc. This is just for fun and is completely up to your opinion.
This is completely just for fun, you can make up the ranks, number of miles/years whatever you'd like.


I'll start first,

I'd consider this:
==========================================
Complete Noob = 1,000 miles (or less) and no MSF course

Noob = 1,000+ miles or MSF course

Familiar = 5,000 miles or 6 months of riding.

Intermediate = 10,000 miles or 1 year of riding

Experienced = 20,000 miles or 2 years of riding

Expert = 40,000 miles or 10 years of riding

Master = 75,000 miles and at least 10 years of riding
==========================================

According to myself I'm a noob since I only have 4k miles and 5 months experience.

Who's next?

[choneofakind]

So what do you consider someone like me who has 19,000 miles over 5 seasons and has some track time in?

I don't think either of your metrics (mileage and time) are valid. I've driven a car a lot lot miles in 6 years. I still suck at it. I think your metric should be comfort level and ability to make an objective analysis of their riding level.

For example: total newbies are tense and nervous, know they suck, and ride with a stick up their butt. Noobs are undeservingly comfortable and think they're good riders but take risk. Intermediates are no longer stressed out by their own shadow and think they're average or maybe just a hair above but are a little more aware of the risks. Keep going down that line and you get to expert who is calm and alert, while knowing full well their abilities and what is appropriate for the riding situation.

[Hero Danny]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. This was just mainly for fun, and of course you really cannot say 2 people who have the same amount of mile experience are exactly the same riding level.

So sure, chalk it up as comfort level, whatever you want. This is just a generalized opinion for fun.

[Flying]

You're no longer a beginner if you can control the bike faster than speed of thought.

[snot]

All depends 5,000 miles on the highway vs the mountains is very different. I have 4 seasons, 3 bikes and 8000 miles. However, I consider myself still green.

[Sirref]

I don't really know objectively where it is but I consider myself to be a beginner and I have a solid (exact amount unknown because of broken speedo cable on my pregen ages ago) amount of miles under my belt that definitely exceeds 15k and 2 seasons along with 3 track days. I will continue to consider myself a beginner until I stop learning...I don't think that's any time soon.

[nickjpass]

When you stop puckering up.

I think some people learn to ride better than others. Quicker. Everyone is different.

[choneofakind]

Lol. You never stop puckering. Every once in a while you have a pucker moment.

[Sirref]

^ agreed, especially if you get into track riding or canyon carving

[snot]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Lol. You never stop puckering. Every once in a while you have a pucker moment.

Very true... I find a good pucker a few times a season.

[ally99]

I consider myself a permanoob. The day I think I'm an "expert" is the day I'm going to do something stupid.

[choneofakind]

Lol. I know in my head that I'm an idiot. I know all the stupid things I've done.

[Jono]

Still a newb! Probably close to 20k miles and 3 years riding.

[accumack]

You are no longer a noob when you know what counter steering is and know how to use it.

[Alex]

Some people have 1 year of riding experience, 20 times.

[cadd]

Mileage and time isn't the contributing factor of getting out of the beginner's stage.

I taught myself how to ride. I have 20 yrs of riding experience. Over 50,000 miles. I can't downshift correctly. I can't use my front brakes effectively (because no one taught me).

You have only 3 months of riding under your belt. You have only 3,000 miles under your belt. However, those three months and those 3,000 miles were spent with Keith Code at the track. You hired him to be your personal riding coach.

Who's a noob and who isn't? Difficult to determine.

[NevadaWolf]

<--- Rookie, or newb if we're sticking with the terminology of the poll.

I get my ass handed to me quite often by riders I consider dumber than me, equal to me, or far more experienced than me. All depends on the environment.

I know I am not an experienced rider in any way, shape, or form. I know many mistakes I make, and welcome anyone to tell me where I am wrong and how to fix it. I know i am stubborn enough to not take the advice as gospel, but I will meld it with what I know works for me and find my style. Then work to improve that until its second nature.

I am a bad student, but I am always a student.

[MrAtom]

And some people just have a natural comfort level with anything. Learning to drive a car was super easy for me, and learning to ride a bike wasn't any harder. Or maybe I just have a really bad ego. I'll let you guys know in the crash section later on :P

[nickjpass]

Driving a bike is easier to me. Cages are ew

[jenkem]

[cuong-nutz]

You are no longer a beginner after you wreck and upgrade to an R6.

[Ninjinsky]

It is more a matter of "modes"
In every new situation you encounter, you are a beginner at that particular element.
You can for example have ridden for 10 years before your first ride on ice or having to come to a stop from speed with a flat.

I planned to remain a beginner on riding in the rain but because of the famous unpredictability of British weather became experienced at it within a week. It was however many years before I experienced riding on melting tarmac

PS I just read up wiki on the ^^^ Dunning-Kruger effect:
"The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras"

[CC Cowboy]

It's a matter of talent, not time or mileage. Some people are a natural, others should never be on a bike.

[Rifleman]

yeah, i'm going to say the mileage and years is a good gauge... but..

I'm pretty noobish that first week or two in the spring... no, I didn't forget how to ride the bike over the winter... just that everything isn't as "normal" as it is after a month.

complete noob- must think about everything, shifting, braking, throttle control, clutch operations.

Noob - operates the bike well under normal conditions

Familiar - operates the bike well under adverse conditions (rain, fog... dark)

intermediate - performs emergency maneuvers well under "test" conditions.

Experienced - performs emergency maneuvers when surprised.

Expert and Master...Same as above


I've got 30 years and 200,ooo+ miles and I still drift around between Intermediate - Master

[LittleRedNinjette]

Its all about feel, not miles.

I would feel comfortable saying i'm "familiar". I'm confident and comfortable riding it a variety of situations like what Rifleman said. BUT i still have stuff to improve on. Everyday is a learning experience and i still have those "lightbulb" moments.

[sharky nrk]

lol this one is simple ........

when you get your expert plates. As such I am apparently a permanoob as well.

[SteveL]

On two wheels you never stop learning until your dead I have had a motorcycle licence since 1964 and I still have things to learn.
Steve

[Hero Danny]

There is a clear distinction between an expert rider and a noob rider. Even experts still have stuff to learn, I'd never call someone like csmith a noob. Even if he could always continue to learn more.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by cadd

Mileage and time isn't the contributing factor of getting out of the beginner's stage.

I taught myself how to ride. I have 20 yrs of riding experience. Over 50,000 miles. I can't downshift correctly. I can't use my front brakes effectively (because no one taught me).

You have only 3 months of riding under your belt. You have only 3,000 miles under your belt. However, those three months and those 3,000 miles were spent with Keith Code at the track. You hired him to be your personal riding coach.

Who's a noob and who isn't? Difficult to determine.

Excellent points. I think the more important factors are about training and learning certain techniques more so than time or mileage. One rider may learn to apply certain riding techniques much quicker than another rider that has more time and riding experience under his/her belt.

To reword the question a little bit, what would you consider to be beginner riding techniques that should be mastered before other techniques are attempted?

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

about approximately what amount of miles + time do you consider is required for someone to finally no longer become a "beginner".

Disclaimer, I am well aware that we are all different and it's impossible to measure experience in just miles or years, etc. This is just for fun and is completely up to your opinion.
This is completely just for fun, you can make up the ranks, number of miles/years whatever you'd like.


I'll start first,

I'd consider this:
==========================================
Complete Noob = 1,000 miles (or less) and no MSF course

Noob = 1,000+ miles or MSF course

Familiar = 5,000 miles or 6 months of riding.

Intermediate = 10,000 miles or 1 year of riding

Experienced = 20,000 miles or 2 years of riding

Expert = 40,000 miles or 10 years of riding

Master = 75,000 miles and at least 10 years of riding
==========================================

According to myself I'm a noob since I only have 4k miles and 5 months experience.

Who's next?

Originally Posted by Rifleman

yeah, i'm going to say the mileage and years is a good gauge... but..

I'm pretty noobish that first week or two in the spring... no, I didn't forget how to ride the bike over the winter... just that everything isn't as "normal" as it is after a month.

complete noob- must think about everything, shifting, braking, throttle control, clutch operations.

Noob - operates the bike well under normal conditions

Familiar - operates the bike well under adverse conditions (rain, fog... dark)

intermediate - performs emergency maneuvers well under "test" conditions.

Experienced - performs emergency maneuvers when surprised.

Expert and Master...Same as above


I've got 30 years and 200,ooo+ miles and I still drift around between Intermediate - Master

Combining these two matrices, I would consider myself a familiar intermediate. I know what I'm supposed to do without thinking about it. I can execute emergency maneuvers from sun up until sun down in the safety of a closed course (I hope I can do it from muscle memory when the time comes). I'm confident in my skills and know I still have plenty of things to learn and work on. I seek out and practice the advice of more seasoned riders on a regular basis.

For me, I knew I had transitioned from noob to intermediate when my husband no longer felt the need to shadow me on every street ride. Once he trusted me to take off on my own adventures, I knew I had mastered the fundamentals and could start working on those that are more finesse than anything else. Also, he's a very demanding rider coach! Receiving instruction from him is definitely not for the faint of heart or weak of spirit.

[csmith12]

I confess myself still a n00b.

[nickjpass]

I'm a pro

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I'm a pro

quoted for when you come back to this thread after your track day

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

yeah, i'm going to say the mileage and years is a good gauge... but..

I'm pretty noobish that first week or two in the spring... no, I didn't forget how to ride the bike over the winter... just that everything isn't as "normal" as it is after a month.

complete noob- must think about everything, shifting, braking, throttle control, clutch operations.

Noob - operates the bike well under normal conditions

Familiar - operates the bike well under adverse conditions (rain, fog... dark)

intermediate - performs emergency maneuvers well under "test" conditions.

Experienced - performs emergency maneuvers when surprised.

Expert and Master...Same as above


I've got 30 years and 200,ooo+ miles and I still drift around between Intermediate - Master

I like this scale a lot more, in the original scale I would be intermediate-experienced but this one has a lot more to do with the actual skills involved.

On this scale my street riding would be intermediate/experienced (some surprises are a bit more trying than others)

personally I rank my riding skill heavily on track days where I have been humbled and built back up though am still a novice and will be for quite some time on the sport side of riding as it is a fairly difficult sport to learn properly

[mikromo]

I've been riding 50 years (started at 13), at least 50 different bikes, 2 California Superbike schools, raced off road for 15 years, I must be a Grandmaster....... At my ripe old age of 63, I probably ride near 20,000 miles per year. Still all ate up with it. Problem.....I can't seem to slow down, I still ride too fast on the street, but in my defense, I ride fast on mostly country roads without much traffic, or down in Northern Arkansas, were the twisties never seem to end and the police presence is light indeed....

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

I'd consider this:
==========================================
Complete Noob = 100,000 miles or less

Noob = 100,000+ miles or run at least 10 track days

Familiar = 500,000 miles

Intermediate = 1,000,000 miles, or completed 1 season of racing with less than 2 DNFs

Experienced = 2,000,000 miles, or completed 5 seasons of racing

Expert = won a national championship

Master = you've won several international championships or your name is rossi, marquez, or kenny roberts.
==========================================

i've adjusted your numbers to what i consider to be correct.

[Desmoluci]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I confess myself still a n00b.

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I'm a pro

[csmith12]

I like alex's scale pretty good, but it only needs one change.

Experienced = 2,000,000 miles, or completed 5 seasons of racing/100 track days

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Sirref

quoted for when you come back to this thread after your track day

I kid I kid

[Desmoluci]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i've adjusted your numbers to what i consider to be correct.