R1 as first bike

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

i know ppl who started on R1's. not a big deal really to start on a liter or 600. don't really know what all the fuss is about. it all depends on the individual. but most of us prefer to ride a slow bike fast, rather than a fast bike slow!

Well it would be like learning to drive in a lambhorghini except that it can also fall over, do wheelies and flip over, and do stoppies and tumble over

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Arinze

I live up in Kennesae. do you live in GA??

I'm assuming that e should be a w, as in Kennesaw? If so, then I'm not too far from you. I live in Dallas.

There is actually an Atlanta riders thread on here somewhere.

[Hoodie Ninja]

Sweet bike, stupid rider.

[Arinze]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I'm assuming that e should be a w, as in Kennesaw? If so, then I'm not too far from you. I live in Dallas.

yea. its kennesaw. sorry about the typo. we should ride sometime

There is actually an Atlanta riders thread on here somewhere.

yea, i know about it but school was crazy. will be done tomorrow and then i can hook up with some people

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

I love when people like chime in with things like this.

*grabs popcorn* This is gonna be good.

omg starting on a 600 or 1000 is not possible! don't do it! LOL! ppl do it everyday. some wreck and get scared and never ride again. some take it easy and are just fine. again big freaking deal, when will people realize it's the rider not the bike.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

omg starting on a 600 or 1000 is not possible! don't do it! LOL! ppl do it everyday. some wreck and get scared and never ride again. some take it easy and are just fine. again big freaking deal, when will people realize it's the rider not the bike.

On a thou it's how experienced or lucky the rider is, 0% experience needs 100% luck one small fcukup on the clutch or throttle and the bike is doing an unhealthy speed for a newbie, grab a fistfull of brake & the bike is down, fcuk up a gearchange & the bike bucks around. - find me one rider who has never made a balls of one of these while learning.

You also forgot the 3 rd group, who wreck & don't get up again.

start on 650 sports or smaller for a while to pick up a bit of skill, then move up.

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

On a thou it's how experienced or lucky the rider is, 0% experience needs 100% luck one small fcukup on the clutch or throttle and the bike is doing an unhealthy speed for a newbie, grab a fistfull of brake & the bike is down, fcuk up a gearchange & the bike bucks around. - find me one rider who has never made a balls of one of these while learning.

You also forgot the 3 rd group, who wreck & don't get up again.

start on 650 sports or smaller for a while to pick up a bit of skill, then move up.

i assume most of you who are against this probably have never rode a SS yet. i personally don't believe that a complete noob should start on a SS, and I don't go around telling ppl they should start on a SS. i just don't agree with ppl acting like the sky's falling whenever this topic comes up. darwin's law will take care of them if they are ill prepared. yes we are on a 250 forum, and most everyone here thinks everyone should start on a 250. but just saying it's not impossible to start on a SS.

i actually learned how to ride on a buddies R6, but decided for myself that i'd be a better rider and it'd be cheaper financially to get a used 250R then upgrade. i don't feel the need to upgrade ATM, but i have ridden on a R6, CBR600, and GSXR 600 on more than one occasion. and i feel right at home on those machines. after riding a SS I can see that it's not entirely impossible for some one to learn on. yes, you have to be more careful with the throttle and the brakes, but it's not extremely difficult. if you can practice being smooth, you'll be fine. also the technology in bikes these days makes SS a slightly more friendly - power mode selector, traction control, etc. in the end it still comes down to the ability of the rider more so than what kind of bike he's on.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

i assume most of you who are against this probably have never rode a SS yet. i personally don't believe that a complete noob should start on a SS, and I don't go around telling ppl they should start on a SS. i just don't agree with ppl acting like the sky's falling whenever this topic comes up. darwin's law will take care of them if they are ill prepared. yes we are on a 250 forum, and most everyone here thinks everyone should start on a 250. but just saying it's not impossible to start on a SS.

i actually learned how to ride on a buddies R6, but decided for myself that i'd be a better rider and it'd be cheaper financially to get a used 250R then upgrade. i don't feel the need to upgrade ATM, but i have ridden on a R6, CBR600, and GSXR 600 on more than one occasion. and i feel right at home on those machines. after riding a SS I can see that it's not entirely impossible for some one to learn on. yes, you have to be more careful with the throttle and the brakes, but it's not extremely difficult. if you can practice being smooth, you'll be fine. also the technology in bikes these days makes SS a slightly more friendly - power mode selector, traction control, etc. in the end it still comes down to the ability of the rider more so than what kind of bike he's on.

Assume what you like, and I admit I may be slightly biased seen as most of the SS/SB class bikes I've been on were older models without a slipper clutch, traction control & the power selector was my right wrist... new toys may make it easier for a newbie but hopping onto (eg) a ZX-9 with 0 experience would be suicidal.

I'm on a 250 for 2 reasons, a) learning to ride a slow bike fast makes you a better rider, but mostly B) Safety nazis in Brussels & Dublin decided not to allow new riders on higher powered (>33bhp) bikes for 2 years after passing the test (with over a 9 month wait for the test)

Any higher powered bikes I've taken out were done illegally (borrowed from mates, not covered by my licence, so not insured either) so I tried to keep a pace that wouldn't draw too much attention before I got out of town.

[Malicious Logic]

I really want to jump into this but I can only give responses based on what I've researched and what I've gleaned from more experienced riders on here so I'll just say this: Can you learn on a 600? Sure, you can learn on any bike. I think I speak for everyone when I say that, that has never been a point of contention. What is, however, is that riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous. The danger and risked is multiplied when you take an inexperienced rider and throw him on the back of a bike that has gobs of power on tap and powerful brakes to counteract that power. I'm sure you can learn the basics on it without too much headache but I think the bottom line is that 650s and smaller are more forgiving than a super sport. Countless incidents could happen on the road that an inexperienced rider isn't prepared/experienced enough to handle properly and thus, they may end up grabbing too much throttle or too much brake. Too much brake and you could lock it up. Not knowing what to do in that situation means they'll probably be on the ground soon. Same goes for the throttle. Too much and they either take off or it pulls forward more than they were expecting. Then we go back into the braking. It only takes one mistake to hit the pavement. Sure these mistakes will happen to everyone but a smaller bike is more inclined to take it in stride instead of bucking you off.

Sure, this is an circumstantial and I'm sure there are riders out there who've learned on a 600 or even a 1000 and never had any problems. But do you really want to take that risk and make your learning curve more difficult than it needs to be? I know I don't. I agree with you that I don't think it's the end of the world if someone starts on a bigger bike but I'd definitely do my best to educate them on what the better choice would be.

[Daeldren]

Ninja 250 a p#$$y bike? Hahaha he will find out soon enough when a cruiser out corners him. Chances are if he lives long enough he will either ride like a delicate flower or leave it in the garage to show off to his buddies. More respect for a cat that rides the proverbial wheels off of a rebel or ninja 250 than a poseur who just wants to be seen on their flashy new honsukwamaha 10000000000.

[TnNinjaGirl]

This guy started on a liter bike... We both have about 12k on the odometer and he's a better rider than I am. I started on a 250. Thought I'd play devil's advocate.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

i assume most of you who are against this probably have never rode a SS yet.

yet there are many who have extensive experience on larger bikes who still push starting small, like my father's coworker whom I ride with who started out in England on a tiny bike 30+ years ago.

While I wouldn't call my experience on a larger bike "extensive", it's enough that I cannot recommend a larger bike to anyone as a starter bike, even if they have dirt experience. Streets are different than dirt; suck it up for one season, and sell for the same you put into it. I won't bash people for starting larger, but I will question them on it, and them show them up in the twisties.

[patw]

I've been on a few litre bikes, and not all are temperamental monsters, hell-bent on killing you. Just the supersports

Here's some semi-acceptable 1000cc+ machines for your friends who will not listen to reason:

- Harley Davidson Sportsters. Unless it's the XR1200R, it's a pretty safe starter machine. Plus with all the chrome maybe he'll spend more time cleaning it.
- Bandit 1200 (GSF1200). Yeah this is stretching it, but it's pretty tame compared to other litre bikes, plus he could bag it up and do some touring. This one will also teach him how to properly pick up a bike. The thing is so top heavy he's sure to drop it at least once while duck walking it
- Vulcan 900. Not quite 1000cc but easy enough to ride.
- Harley Davidson Road King. Yeah man! Who wants to ride some crappy 1000cc machine when you can have nearly 2000cc!! Seriously though it's for old people and it one of the tamest bikes I've ever ridden. Talk about how much of a man he'll be on a 1.8L engine. Plus it's not very fast...
- BMW R1200GS. Show him Long Way Round, and if he doesn't lust for the bike he's broken or something. Be sure to bring a camera the first time he tries to bring it off road

Now if you totally hate the guy, tell him real riders start on Suzuki TL1000R's or Honda RC51's. Nearly crippling ergonomics and completely unforgiving engines will ensure a short litre bike fixation. If he lives, I'm sure he'll come around to the idea of a 250cc machine to learn on

[choneofakind]

I've heard TL1000R's refered to as "widow-makers"

Now RC51's on the other hand, me likey

[patw]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I've heard TL1000R's refered to as "widow-makers"

Now RC51's on the other hand, me likey

The sound of an RC51 with aftermarket exhausts is... epic. They really are lust worthy bikes, but the owners will always admit they're horribly uncomfortable.

[choneofakind]

all supersports are horribly uncomfortable. Plus, I'm 19, comfort isn't mandatory just yet. I want one!

[patw]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

all supersports are horribly uncomfortable. Plus, I'm 19, comfort isn't mandatory just yet. I want one!

Thankfully, most 19 year olds can't afford insane machines. It's bad when you're mid 30's and feeling that way and DO have the money for them

I resisted, and got a beat up dual sport and learned how to wrench and ride off-road. Probably the best decision I've ever made.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by patw

...
- Bandit 1200 (GSF1200). Yeah this is stretching it, but it's pretty tame compared to other litre bikes, plus he could bag it up and do some touring. This one will also teach him how to properly pick up a bike. The thing is so top heavy he's sure to drop it at least once while duck walking it
...
Now if you totally hate the guy, tell him real riders start on Suzuki TL1000R's or Honda RC51's. Nearly crippling ergonomics and completely unforgiving engines will ensure a short litre bike fixation. If he lives, I'm sure he'll come around to the idea of a 250cc machine to learn on

Do not do this...


Not because it will kill him, but because it would be such a waste of a marvelous piece of machinery. SPs are rare enough and I WANT ONE
Like this (not a single sticker on it, all decals airbrushed on)


I've been on a couple of spins with the owner of this beast, its fcukin fast

BTW the bandit 12 is known for being a great wheelie machine...

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by patw

It's bad when you're mid 30's and feeling that way and DO have the money for them

I'll still be playing soccer and riding bicycles. Not a worry

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

all supersports are horribly uncomfortable. Plus, I'm 19, comfort isn't mandatory just yet. I want one!

Not mandatory, but still nice for those long rides though.

[choneofakind]

just go faster, the wind will lift part of your weight up and it will be just like a lazy boy that has your head forward

[Xoulrath]

I personally find supersports rather comfortable for several hours at a time. I get a hot spot in my right knee after several hours or a few hundred miles, but other than that I am perfectly comfortable. If I remember I don't have to keep the balls of my feet up all the time on the street, then the hotspot goes away.

With regards to beginners and 600/1000cc race replicas, yes people start on them, live to tell the tale, and some even become great riders. It's all about minimizing risk in an already risky sport. Others have pointed this out. The one thing everyone fails to realize about these success stories is that they are the exceptions.

Most people will not fare so well with the SS bikes. Electronics can not fix poor form and electronics are not capable of stopping all accidents. They also fail. For those who are serious about riding, but made a poor choice in first bike by getting a 600+ SS, they will likely do well and research and seek out training to acquire the skills they need, albeit with a steeper learning curve. For those who are more into the "look," well I hope they have a great guardian angel.

[Arinze]

walking to the bike parking lot with my helmet in hand, this dude walks up to me and was like "u own one of those bikes" when i said yes, he told me he was going to get his this week and went on about how sweet the bike was. pulled out his cell and dude wants to get a hayabusa. said d dealer told him it fits him cos hes 6'2" and 260lbs. well i stood there and talked to him for 2 hrs, sat on my bike and all that and he saw it in a different way. he decided to get a 250 or 500 max...came home with the strong feeling of saving a life

[Jiggles]

Hmm, ur 6'2? Yea I think you need one of THE FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLES EVER BUILT

[Arinze]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Hmm, ur 6'2? Yea I think you need one of THE FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLES EVER BUILT

I told the dude he'd be dead in a week

[Jiggles]

Try 6 seconds

[Arinze]

but some of these folks dont know better and I feel the dealers just take advantage of them

[choneofakind]

I feel like telling him he would die was a little bit of a hyperbole

[Arinze]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I feel like telling him he would die was a little bit of a hyperbole

didnt intend it to be. no riding experience and jumping on one of the fastest bikes...i see it as suicide

[Whiskey]

As I've been predicting for a while theres a new 400 in the works, about 50 bhp (47 I'd guess), may be another option to start on everywhere bar europe where it will be a stage 2 bike

Honda cbr 400 parallel twin,

Can someone make this a link, im on my phone
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...pan/20578.html
Posted via Mobile Device

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

i assume most of you who are against this probably have never rode a SS yet. i personally don't believe that a complete noob should start on a SS, and I don't go around telling ppl they should start on a SS. i just don't agree with ppl acting like the sky's falling whenever this topic comes up. darwin's law will take care of them if they are ill prepared. yes we are on a 250 forum, and most everyone here thinks everyone should start on a 250. but just saying it's not impossible to start on a SS.

i actually learned how to ride on a buddies R6, but decided for myself that i'd be a better rider and it'd be cheaper financially to get a used 250R then upgrade. i don't feel the need to upgrade ATM, but i have ridden on a R6, CBR600, and GSXR 600 on more than one occasion. and i feel right at home on those machines. after riding a SS I can see that it's not entirely impossible for some one to learn on. yes, you have to be more careful with the throttle and the brakes, but it's not extremely difficult. if you can practice being smooth, you'll be fine. also the technology in bikes these days makes SS a slightly more friendly - power mode selector, traction control, etc. in the end it still comes down to the ability of the rider more so than what kind of bike he's on.

Traction control makes me think of this gsxr vid:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[choneofakind]

That's funny. They're using their lack of traction control system and marketing it as an advantage.

[Miles_Prower]

There must be a lot of crappy dealers out there if they are all suggesting to get bigger bikes.

The dealer I bought my bike from not once suggested I should "upgrade." The guy told me, "This is a great bike to start on, and is a LOT of fun. Once you ride for a few years and get some experience, and you want to get another bike, come on back and we'll set you up." I had mentioned I wanted a ZX-6R, but it would be a while before I get one. Never tried to sell me on anything else, no warranties, no extra gear that I didn't want, nothing. Great shop, great people.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Miles_Prower

Great shop, great people.

Sounds like you found a great dealership who's actually trying to set up a relationship with their customers so they have repeat customers and not just one-time sales. They sound like a keeper

[thisisbenji]

I hope people don't see the GSXR1000 video and think they can go out and do that..

[adouglas]

I live across the street from an elementary school and watch people teaching their kids to drive in the parking lot all the time. It shows me exactly why one should start modestly and take your licks before diving into the deep end of the pool.

I don't see this as a black and white issue. Can you learn safely on a superbike? Yes, just as you can learn to drive in a 500-horsepower Ferrari. Are you more likely to wad it up and hurt yourself? Yes. Is the undeniable added risk worth it? I don't think so, personally.

Watching those new drivers screw up every weekend brings home a very simple fact. When you're new, you make mistakes. It's inevitable. That's how people learn.

So why stack the deck against yourself? Scaring the bejeezus out of yourself doesn't teach you anything other than to fear the beast. Plus there's the fact that you fark up on a literbike you're a lot more likely to have something Really Bad happen than if you do so on a more modest and tractable machine. I don't think I could make my Ninjette flip over backwards if I tried. On a literbike it's easy.

Frankly, I'd say the same kinds of things about a 600. The class may be the tamest of supersports, but look at them in context. They're really serious machines.

All this year one of the rags (Motorcyclist or Cycle World, can't remember which) is doing a series on motorcycling at 100. Last month they reprinted a review of the old Honda CB750, which was considered a potent motorcycle in its day.

It made 68 horsepower.

[Boomstick1491]

There is this fool I know from work who has expressed interest in learning to ride. He talks to me because he sees me come in every day on my bike and apparently thinks I give a sh*t what he has to say. Little backstory, he's an obnoxious, smug, turd who seems, in my estimation, to want to learn to ride for the image of it.

Don't get me wrong, I am still learning myself, but when people talk to me about learning to ride, I am ALWAYS happy to talk to them about it and tell them about the BRC, learning on a small bike, and wearing proper gear. I thought this guy was no different, so I talked to him one afternoon and encouraged him to sign up for the BRC. Now the floodgates have opened and every day he tries to talk to me about bikes etc. This seemed innocuous enough until he started yapping my ear off about buying a 1000cc bike, all before, mind you, the BRC. Admittedly, he is not going to buy a 1000cc sport bike, but he refuses to listen when I talk to him about the likelihood of him going down (I did within two days of getting my Ninjette), the added difficulty of controlling something with a lot of power, and excess weight, etc. I think he wants validation that he SHOULD buy this 1000cc Ducati cafe racer something or other. At this point, I am almost inclined to tell him to buy the bike so he can ride himself into the back of a semi and then I can say "I told you so." Of course, I do not hope that happens, but I wish I could talk some sense into him. Alas, my powers of persuasion are not as strong as Obi Wan. "This is not the bike you are looking for..."

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Boomstick1491

There is this fool I know from work who has expressed interest in learning to ride. He talks to me because he sees me come in every day on my bike and apparently thinks I give a sh*t what he has to say. Little backstory, he's an obnoxious, smug, turd who seems, in my estimation, to want to learn to ride for the image of it.

Don't get me wrong, I am still learning myself, but when people talk to me about learning to ride, I am ALWAYS happy to talk to them about it and tell them about the BRC, learning on a small bike, and wearing proper gear. I thought this guy was no different, so I talked to him one afternoon and encouraged him to sign up for the BRC. Now the floodgates have opened and every day he tries to talk to me about bikes etc. This seemed innocuous enough until he started yapping my ear off about buying a 1000cc bike, all before, mind you, the BRC. Admittedly, he is not going to buy a 1000cc sport bike, but he refuses to listen when I talk to him about the likelihood of him going down (I did within two days of getting my Ninjette), the added difficulty of controlling something with a lot of power, and excess weight, etc. I think he wants validation that he SHOULD buy this 1000cc Ducati cafe racer something or other. At this point, I am almost inclined to tell him to buy the bike so he can ride himself into the back of a semi and then I can say "I told you so." Of course, I do not hope that happens, but I wish I could talk some sense into him. Alas, my powers of persuasion are not as strong as Obi Wan. "This is not the bike you are looking for..."

Paul Smart 1000?

What is it with twats wanting to kill all the cool rare bikes

Tell him to suck it up, learn then buy the fcukin thing when he can appreciate it.

[Boomstick1491]

I don't know what he wants to be honest. I think he said sport classic, which (according to Wikipedia) that one seems to be, but I have no idea.

That thing is heinous IMO.

[Whiskey]

Matter of opinion, I like the look of Cafe racers, like V-twins, like Ohlins. The green/blue frame is a bit dodgy tho