Crazysauce IL Law

[tnr4]

This is nuts: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...is-go-to-jail/

Of course doing wheelies and whatnot is dangerous, and there are laws against it (reckless driving). But JAIL TIME?!?! Crazysauce.

[himynameisjoe]

I get so tired of laws that don't help anyone. If you or I go out and do wheelies, the only person we're likely to hurt is ourselves. How can it be illegal if I hurt myself? Isn't that like the ultimate punishment?

[n4mwd]

Laws like that are stupid. Florida has similar stupid laws about wheelies. Sometimes they are accidental - especially stoppies - but the law here does not differentiate. Also, the way the law is written here, it basically says that a car that can do a wheelie is OK, but motorcycles aren't.

[Joshorilla]

My uncle lives in Florida, last time I was over he said your law officers had the power to impound and crush your bike if they catch someone pulling a wheelie.

Pretty harsh!

[TheDementedDrummer]

Yeah, but if you wheelie into someones' car, or if you wheelie and crash, and cause another biker to crash, that's damage to other people's property.
that's the only reason they're doing it, they're avoiding lawsuits.

[Jono]

This is ridiculous!

[NevadaWolf]

The bit that gets me is the standing bit. If the article is right, does that make it now illegal to stand going over a speed bump, rough road, dirt road, just stretching your back? I stand quite a bit on long runs. Eek

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

The bit that gets me is the standing bit. If the article is right, does that make it now illegal to stand going over a speed bump, rough road, dirt road, just stretching your back? I stand quite a bit on long runs. Eek

My assumption is that "standing" means "on the seat" and no hands while stunting.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

My assumption is that "standing" means "on the seat" and no hands while stunting.

Possible. This is the only bit I could find. Most of this law deals with the registration plate and how you can have your license (variety of legal terms) taken away.

****(b) A person shall ride upon a motorcycle only while sitting astride the seat, facing forward, with one leg on each side of the motorcycle.

My worry is an over eager cop or lawyer will take that literally and if someone's butt is not in the seat for any reason they they are busted.

[thisisbenji]

I just wish they would enforce the texting laws. I see people texting constantly it seems just about every other driver in Illinois is text messaging, even right by the cops. I'd also like to see stronger fines put in place. They're a joke right now.

[Motofool]

"Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed." - Benjamin Franklin

[ChaoSS]

Not saying it's a good thing, but it does have merit. It's only while speeding, so you shouldn't be having issues if you take off from a light and accidentally pull the front wheel off the ground a little bit.

This is about stunting, and stunting can kill other people.


The sitting/standing thing should be addressed, though, as standing up is, at times, proper riding technique.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Possible. This is the only bit I could find. Most of this law deals with the registration plate and how you can have your license (variety of legal terms) taken away.

****(b) A person shall ride upon a motorcycle only while sitting astride the seat, facing forward, with one leg on each side of the motorcycle.

My worry is an over eager cop or lawyer will take that literally and if someone's butt is not in the seat for any reason they they are busted.

Over zealous cops? Yep, they're out there.

Link to original page on YouTube.

The guy being arrested in the video was not stunting or speeding. However, there were other bikers who were. The same cop was caught on video earlier kicking a suspect with about half a dozen other cops all on top of him.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by himynameisjoe

I get so tired of laws that don't help anyone. If you or I go out and do wheelies, the only person we're likely to hurt is ourselves. How can it be illegal if I hurt myself? Isn't that like the ultimate punishment?

well that just makes too much sense...

[lgk]

here is the bill
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3452&GAID=11&GA=97&DocTypeID=SB&LegID=65055&SessionID=84

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Not saying it's a good thing, but it does have merit. It's only while speeding, so you shouldn't be having issues if you take off from a light and accidentally pull the front wheel off the ground a little bit.

This is about stunting, and stunting can kill other people.


The sitting/standing thing should be addressed, though, as standing up is, at times, proper riding technique.

THAT IT'S ILLEGAL has merit -- this new law is about punishment, and it's insane. 6 months in jail for popping two wheelies? I'm sticking with my initial judgment here: crazysauce.

[lgk]

yea, that's what happens when you get ignorant haters passing laws...
i deal with it all the time.

:crazysauce: is accurate.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by tnr4

THAT IT'S ILLEGAL has merit -- this new law is about punishment, and it's insane. 6 months in jail for popping two wheelies? I'm sticking with my initial judgment here: crazysauce.

I don't think crazysauce is inaccurate, just think that some people are making some over reaching comparisons...

[LoneRonin]

all this law is going to do is make a simple stunter flee from the cops and create a larger threat to the public...

[lgk]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

all this law is going to do is make a simple stunter flee from the cops and create a larger threat to the public...

yup, statistically it so rare, it shouldn't even be an issue.
from my research, there's no real basis for the punishment or the law itself.

it is pure :crazysauce:

and to prove you logic,
yes i would run if they tried to get me for a year in jail.

[GreenNinja]

Originally Posted by tnr4

THAT IT'S ILLEGAL has merit -- this new law is about punishment, and it's insane. 6 months in jail for popping two wheelies? I'm sticking with my initial judgment here: crazysauce.

Well the law does mention doing wheelies WHILE exceeding the speed limit. I would conclude it is okay to do a wheelie while under the speed limit. The dumbest part of the law is that the handle bars can't be higher than the person's head. I always thought the super tall ape hangers were stupid but making it against the law? I guess they are trying to piss off the Harley riders.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by GreenNinja

The dumbest part of the law is that the handle bars can't be higher than the person's head. I always thought the super tall ape hangers were stupid but making it against the law? I guess they are trying to piss off the Harley riders.

It is a safety issue, it can be harder to properly control a bike with the hangers, putting people in danger.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

all this law is going to do is make a simple stunter flee from the cops and create a larger threat to the public...

True they run now whenever they see a cop. A law like that will only make things worse.
On the bright side, a penalty of jail means that criminal evidence rules apply. The cop has to prove you did a wheelie rather than just saying he saw you do it while speeding.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

True they run now whenever they see a cop. A law like that will only make things worse.
On the bright side, a penalty of jail means that criminal evidence rules apply. The cop has to prove you did a wheelie rather than just saying he saw you do it while speeding.

Right, just like with DUIs, right?


Don't ever think that this sort of thing will ever work in our favor, if a cop wants to lie and arrest you, it's happening, and the courts just don't care.

[sneakyraffki]

guy from IL here, we're getting a lot of laws like California around here and its so stupid. laws to protect us from our self. Laws like this is mostly cause of Chicago, it doesn't matter what part of Illinois you are from, if Chicago cops want to make a law it always goes threw. The county that Chicago sits in has more push and pull for laws in Illinois then every other county put together.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Right, just like with DUIs, right?


Don't ever think that this sort of thing will ever work in our favor, if a cop wants to lie and arrest you, it's happening, and the courts just don't care.

With any type of criminal charge, the burden of proof is on the cop and DA.

They get around this burden of proof for most traffic stops by calling it an "infraction." An infraction cannot carry jail time. So if you get a huge speeding ticket infraction, you do have the option of surrendering your license for life and not paying the ticket. But who does that?

With a criminal offense, the judge assumes the defendant is telling the truth and the cop must prove otherwise. With an infraction, the judge just takes the cop's word for it and most of the time doesn't really care what you have to say.

These days, cops get drunks on video, printed tickets from the breathalyzer, blood work, and a second breathalyzer conducted by another officer at the jail (they can calculate your BAC based on how long ago you were in the car). Its not easy for a drunk to escape a DUI conviction if the cop followed procedure and has all his ducks in a row.

With the IL wheelie law, a cop must have some kind of video that shows the biker stunting and also some kind of means to simultaneously record the bikers speed - since the biker must also be speeding. That's not impossible, but its pretty much going to be what is required for a conviction short of a confession. I'm thinking that stupid stunters that pass cops while doing wheelies would be the first to get convicted of this.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by sneakyraffki

guy from IL here, we're getting a lot of laws like California around here and its so stupid. laws to protect us from our self. Laws like this is mostly cause of Chicago, it doesn't matter what part of Illinois you are from, if Chicago cops want to make a law it always goes threw. The county that Chicago sits in has more push and pull for laws in Illinois then every other county put together.

have you contacted the reps, and asked what was the reasoning behind the law?

let me know if you do, i'll send a message too.
just make it seem neutral, or you'll get ignored.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Don't ever think that this sort of thing will ever work in our favor.

i don't think it can...

[sneakyraffki]

Originally Posted by lgk

have you contacted the reps, and asked what was the reasoning behind the law?

let me know if you do, i'll send a message too.
just make it seem neutral, or you'll get ignored.

most likely cause of Harley riders, cops and the state wont care cause giving out tickets. and what one guy said on the comments

"On a serious note, having spent a lot of time working in rural Illinois and knowing what the riders out there are like, I can comfortably assume that the Harley riders, a group that makes up the lion's share of riders out there, is behind this legislation. Think about it; they've banned exhibitionist behavior typical of young sportbike riders, but have also gone so far as to outlaw certain practical riding behavior akin to the Aventure Touring and Commuter types. Meanwhile, the state continues to be a helmet free state so you can still "ride free" on your road king.

EDIT: I read through bill and noticed this.
20 (c) No person shall operate any motorcycle with handlebar
21 grips handlebars higher than the height of the head shoulders
22 of the operator when the operator is seated in the normal
23 driving position astride that portion of the seat or saddle
24 occupied by the operator.

Notice the change in provisions that raises the legal height of the handlebars... Definitely the work of the Harley guys."

but like I said on my other comment, it could be because the city of Chicago is having a problem with people wheeling and thats why the law seems to be very harsh.

If it was any other county that made this proposal, there would only be tickets ranging from 300 bucks and higher, but never jail time. But Jail time will never happen. at most I believe you will get your M class licence revoked

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

With a criminal offense, the judge assumes the defendant is telling the truth and the cop must prove otherwise. With an infraction, the judge just takes the cop's word for it and most of the time doesn't really care what you have to say.

These days, cops get drunks on video, printed tickets from the breathalyzer, blood work, and a second breathalyzer conducted by another officer at the jail (they can calculate your BAC based on how long ago you were in the car). Its not easy for a drunk to escape a DUI conviction if the cop followed procedure and has all his ducks in a row.

I understand the concept of how it is supposed to work, but I think that the majority of DUI charges involving local LE has no video of the person actually driving, which, I assume, must make up a significant part of the criminal charge. Most CHP cars have cameras, I believe, but not our local LE, not around here. I know this, because when I got arrested, and the cop blatantly lied about what happened, I figured it would be an easy issue, since part of it happened right in front of his car. When I demanded a copy of the video, I found out that they don't have cameras in their cars.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

I understand the concept of how it is supposed to work, but I think that the majority of DUI charges involving local LE has no video of the person actually driving, which, I assume, must make up a significant part of the criminal charge. Most CHP cars have cameras, I believe, but not our local LE, not around here. I know this, because when I got arrested, and the cop blatantly lied about what happened, I figured it would be an easy issue, since part of it happened right in front of his car. When I demanded a copy of the video, I found out that they don't have cameras in their cars.

Sometimes they get video of the person actually driving (weaving and such) and use that as evidence of probable cause. Their case goes a lot better for them if they can show why they thought they had probable cause to stop you.

But to actually convict you, they like video showing you staggering around outside the car and failing a sobriety test. Still that isn't enough because there are other reasons for weaving and staggering besides being drunk. The breathalyzer and/or blood test is generally what they get people with since the law typically requires a certain BAC.

The laws in some states may vary, but if stopped and the cop says you were drunk, then you should insist on a blood draw - unless you really were drunk. Some states might not allow you to specify the type of test. You shouldn't need to prove your innocence, but a blood draw will allow you to do so if you need to.

I was stopped one time because I was weaving. I hadn't had anything to drink, but it wasn't my car and the steering wheel had a bar right over the speedometer so I kept having to turn it to see it. The cop lectured me about the evils of drunk driving and let me go.

But a friend of mine was stopped for no apparent reason and the cop insisted on a breathalyzer. My friend's brother was with him and he told him about reports of corrupt cops faking breathalyzers on innocent drivers so my friend insisted on a blood test. The cop backed down and let him go.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

<snip>

Let me clarify, I wasn't arrested for DUI. I was arrested after, long story short, a cop told me to get my dogs out of my house (he had been harassing me about my dogs for awhile) and when I did he arrested me for releasing vicious dogs on him, charges were assault on a police officer and resisting arrest. That's not how his report read, of course, but that's when I learned that locally, nobody but the CHP has cameras in their cars. And yes, local LE does a lot of DUI enforcement, with nothing but their word that the person was actually driving the vehicle.