Having the "what make motorcyclists so special" talk with a friend...

[Apex]

UGH.

The debate is lane splitting. Though it even isn't legal here, he posted a video of a motorcyclist getting doored. He stated that he wanted to do that to those motorcyclists.

Really? Is it worth not only damaging your vehicle, but endangering their life? REALLY?


I'm burned out on the subject. Still, I can't believe people think like this. Then again, people think cars own the road and they will take it out on others if they are slowed down.

Like a bicycle rider that got into an argument about the legalities of cycling on the roadway. The driver turned around and ran the guy down, killing him. Really?

Stuff like this has ALWAYS bothered me. How do people think like this and not think it is wrong?????????


Oh, and don't even get me started on the whole "why do cars get let off for hitting a motorcycle/cyclist when they say 'I didn't see him/her!'"

[Bigballsofpaint]

In reality it comes down to jealousy and/or lack of knowledge. The "I cant do that so why can they", or "why do I have to sit in traffic and they don't" mentality. Not researching the fact that it IS safer IF cars know it is allowed, and the fact that if there is enough people on motorcycles, it actually REDUCES traffic. This is assuming it is done in a safe manner, ie, during heavy traffic (sub 10 or 15mph), and the bike is going no more than 10mph faster than the cars.

[thisisbenji]

People "lane-split" in their cars every chance they get. Cars almost always pull into my lane at a stop to get around me and turn right. Cars will ride the shoulder to get into the right lane or drive on the yellow to get into the left lane. People don't complain about this because everyone can do it, but when I bike utilizes their smaller size to do the SAME EXACT THING people are up in arms.

[CC Cowboy]

There is a big mental health problem in this country (I should say the world).

It started back in the backpack generation (politically correct) with kids being told they were special (most were/are just special olympics). A trophy for showing up, I'll report you if I don't get my way, it's all about me, failure is always someone else's fault. Now we see it in government (blame someone before you take responsibility), business (too big to fail), and parenting (it wasn't my kid). It seems kids grow up seeing everyone lie so they join the crowd. When things don't go their way they blame others or go postal.

[greenaero]

^^^^ agreed!

Some people are dumb, some are crazy and some are just plain evil. We have to watch out for them and not give them the chance to take us down.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

There is a big mental health problem in this country (I should say the world).

It started back in the backpack generation (politically correct) with kids being told they were special (most were/are just special olympics). A trophy for showing up, I'll report you if I don't get my way, it's all about me, failure is always someone else's fault. Now we see it in government (blame someone before you take responsibility), business (too big to fail), and parenting (it wasn't my kid). It seems kids grow up seeing everyone lie so they join the crowd. When things don't go their way they blame others or go postal.

i was raised by wolves. does that mean i'm too big to fail? or should i blame someone elses kid?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

People "lane-split" in their cars every chance they get. Cars almost always pull into my lane at a stop to get around me and turn right. Cars will ride the shoulder to get into the right lane or drive on the yellow to get into the left lane. People don't complain about this because everyone can do it, but when I bike utilizes their smaller size to do the SAME EXACT THING people are up in arms.

this could be the best argument i've ever heard for this.

[capt_bugaloo]

There was a recent post here that even in California, where lane-splitting is legal and common, there are public service ads shown on TV to educate drivers that yes, lane-splitting IS legal.

I would lane-split, but here on Vancouver Island it is a "foreign concept". Car drivers I've talked to about it see it as "cheating", "butting ahead of the queue", "not waiting your turn", etc.

Yep, I've tried to explain that logically it actually makes sense to let scooters and motorcycles filter ahead and relieve the traffic congestion, but most folks are not that logical and just don't get it.

[Flying]

Originally Posted by capt_bugaloo

Car drivers I've talked to about it see it as "cheating", "butting ahead of the queue", "not waiting your turn", etc.

So. Childish.

Is commuting this?

[Sirref]

^ looking at the way the highway system works during rush hour, for the most part yes

[corksil]

I agree with the "I can't do it so why can he?" mentality.

I believe that to be the same reason why people sometimes honk, put on their highbeams, try to follow you when you pass them in non-passing zones.

"Woo, look at me in my car. Buzzing along the road, breaking the speed limit by a bit but watching my mirrors for cops because I'm such a badass, woo, yeah I'm so cool driving along in my WTF HOLY HELL WTF WAS THAT GOD DAMNIT..." *passed by motorcycle* "Oooooo, that asshole I'm gonna teach him a lesson, yeah that guy is such a dick I'm gonna honk at him and speed up and ride right on his back tire and show him who's boss, yeah he's gonna see who the big man is...!"

^^ Is that not the thought process of 99% of the commuting population? Notice that there wasn't any logic involved, there wasn't a consciously identifiable 'reason' to react that way, it was just the knee-jerk unconscious response.

Society trains us to become emotional. It rewards emotional outbursts, and further ingrains the mentality that "I have every right to make a scene, because I'm special and that will get me what I want."

Emotional people are easy to sell products to. Emotional people aren't thinking rationally. Emotional people can be told what to do more easily than un emotional people.

[Hero Danny]

I saw a video where a biker on a sport bike got so pissed at the car behind him for beeping, he pulled out a led pipe that was attached to his bike and started going towards the car, lmao the car immediately started backing up.

[Rifleman]

sadly two things are in play here.

1. some clods do go 100 and lane split, weave, use the shoulder and any other part of the road or illegal activity to get in front and be first... makes everyone on two wheels look like a hood.

2. The "I'm more important" attitude of a great many cagers, instant gratification, the world revolves around me, get out of my way types.

It's not legal to lane split in Illinois, most likely wouldn't do it, even if it was unless traffic was fully stopped and my bike is blinking red from the heat.

I'm a pretty easy going guy, I get upset about government stupidity, but on the road i'm like sure, run right up there, go right ahead if it makes you feel better. I'm not that important, I can wait.

and then I find some back roads with no traffic and work it all out, horse power UNLEASHED!!!!

[momoru]

Definitely jealousy. Cars complain about cyclists running stop signs all the time, but I'm imagining the number of car drivers killed by cyclists running stop signs is in single digits.

Same with with motorcycles and lane splitting, people just see it as "cutting in line" and in America we're very serious about not cutting in line.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

I saw a video where a biker on a sport bike got so pissed at the car behind him for beeping, he pulled out a led pipe that was attached to his bike and started going towards the car, lmao the car immediately started backing up.

?

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by corksil

?

HAHAH! That's right! It wasn't a pipe, it was an AXE! Hahahah!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by momoru

Definitely jealousy. Cars complain about cyclists running stop signs all the time, but I'm imagining the number of car drivers killed by cyclists running stop signs is in single digits.

Same with with motorcycles and lane splitting, people just see it as "cutting in line" and in America we're very serious about not cutting in line.

cyclists who run red lights piss me the **** off. i have almost gone down twice trying to avoid some dumbshit bicycle running a red light not paying attention to whats going on around them. anyone who runs a red light without paying attention deserves to get hit by a car and to pay for the damages. it's a stupid thing to do.

[InvisiBill]

I think the biggest thing is that it seems unfair to them.

Personally, my biggest issue is that I don't trust the car in the lane next to mine to not run me over, much less if I'm specifically sharing a lane with them. Especially if they're feeling slighted by the fact that I can lane-split while they can't, I'm not sure I want to be trapped right next to them.

Another issue is that it adds some unpredictability. Rather than having each car in its lane, you now also have to be looking for small vehicles between lanes. Even in California, it's not legal for any vehicle other than motorcycles to lane-share. If a car is small enough to lane-split like a bike, should it be allowed to? If not, we're back to "Why are bikes special?"

Rules generally work well because everyone follows them, and you can expect people to follow them. When a car is approaching a stop sign, you expect them to stop. When a car is driving toward you, you expect them to be in the opposite lane. You may not blindly trust every vehicle all the time, but for the most part, you expect people to at least mostly follow the rules. The more conditional or judgment-based rules you add, the less standardized driving behavior becomes, and that makes it harder to properly respond to what other drivers are doing. People are bad enough drivers when they know exactly what everyone around them is doing. Throw a little confusion their way and you're just asking for more problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting has a decent bit of interesting info. Apparently, it's only legal in CA because there's no law specifically outlawing it.

[NevadaWolf]

I've never been specifically for or against lane splitting (basically following the "Wait your turn" line of thought).

However, this week has taught me one argument that pushes me more towards the side of supporting it.

In absolute standstill traffic, or traffic moving along at a mere 10-20 mph in short bursts, the rider is exposed to the elements. In extreme heat (oh let's say El Paso), the heat from the air, the pavement, the cars, and the gear can be potentially fatal to a rider unprepared for such conditions.

All the other arguments that I have heard should be more addressed by somehow forcing drivers to be more aware of others on the road (HA!) but when it comes to sitting outside on a bike vs inside an air conditioned car, get the rider off the road as fast as possible.

[Old Lemon]

byciclists...somethings that come to mind;

a pair riding side by side to one another one a one lane each way street

running stop signs and red lights without even goddam looking

its just endangering themselves to be on an unmotorized vehicle on a road of 40 mph not to mention damage to my own vehicle

(goes for joggers as well) USE THE ****ING SIDE WALK, i literally have no idea why those exist when everyone just does what they do in the street

[choneofakind]

Bicyclists also piss me off when they ride side by side. No point in that ****. Same with blatantly running signs or lights. The 'Idaho Stop' is fine. I do that. But involves slowing to ~3mph and running a light/sign where there's clearly no one coming. For actual traffic, I stop.

[Ninjinsky]

The problem with cagers is that they think their windscreen is a video game display, and that the world they see cannot get back at them.
It takes a guy with an axe to remind them it's real people out there.

Living mostly in a country where lane splitting is, and always has been totally legal I wonder what suits decided to criminalise it over there, and was the law introduced from naivete or malice?
90% of the reason for city commuting by bike is completely negated by that one dumb law.

[choneofakind]

I don't think it's a case of criminalizing the lane sharing as much as it is the law being written from the perspective of something to the effect of 'there shall be one vehicle per width of lane, passing other vehicles can only be safely done by moving to a left lane' and the motorcycles were just tossed in the mix. CA is just progressive enough that they allowed motorcyclists some freedom.

Have you seen how terrible our drivers are and how easy it is to get a license? I'm unhappy sharing a road with those folks, much less a lane. That's too intimate for my tastes.

[Ninjinsky]

Uk testing is rigorous and multi layered
There are compulsory training courses (below) you must complete before you can even apply for a test.
I believe Japan is similarly tough
Current page, although it looks like 90's HTML
http://www.90-one.com/cbt.html

[choneofakind]

That was kinda my point in reminding you how incompetent most of our drivers are.

You have much harder requirements than we do for getting a license. It would seem as though the majority of your drivers at least know the driving laws.

(I'm not in the UK )

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i was raised by wolves. does that mean i'm too big to fail? or should i blame someone elses kid?

It's a dog eat dog world we live in.