Clunking noise when stopped...only once

[DSomething]

I went out riding today and heard/felt the strangest thing...a relatively loud clunk AFTER I clicked into first. I'll explain...

Every ride, I start out in the hood across the street from me to warm up so to speak. Everything was fine in there; all stops, starts, shifts (although I only get up to 4th in there). I did about 6 laps, split between going around to the right and left in the little hood.

Every ride, I do that and then come out to the first main light to make a right onto the main street where I live. Today, I come up to the light, downshift into first like normal and then about a split second AFTER clicking into first, I hear what sounded like a clunk from under the bike. I heard it and felt it. It was very similar to the clunkiness of shifting into first BUT maybe a couple of times louder and stronger. And, the first gear clunk occurred like normal when I shifted into first right before I heard this noise.

I looked down to make sure nothing fell off the bike (forgive me for I am a noob). Everything looked where it was supposed to be. I then made the right and the first right back into the little hood. I rode around there a few times making sure everything worked OK...and it did. I then went down the street, into a little parking lot, and looked over my bike. Frankly, I have absolutely no idea what I was looking for but I checked for leaks anywhere and checked my oil level. All good on both ends.

I then went on my normal ride, although I made sure to not stray too far from home just in case. Everything went just fine. I stopped a couple of times throughout to check for leaks and the oil level and, again, everything was good. My total ride today was 41 miles around town.

What could that clunk have been? I am still under warranty, should I take it to the dealer and have them check out my bike? If so, my dealer is close to 25 miles away from my house so should I ride it there? Would it be safe?

Thanks for all your expertise and help!

Oh, and no sound clip because I don't ride with a camera. I have 1,074 miles and my first service was done on time.

D.

[cuong-nutz]

The clunk could be loudered and felt more into first when you're coasting and shifting down into nuetral and quickly shift into first since the gears are still spinning at at different rate of speed than the transmission.

Other thing could be what you are hearing and feeling is the slack in the rear cush drive. You click into first and the transmission bites a little and pulls the chain forward removing all the slack in the rear cush drive.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

The clunk could be loudered and felt more into first when you're coasting and shifting down into nuetral and quickly shift into first since the gears are still spinning at at different rate of speed than the transmission.

But I had already clicked into first successfully and was currently stopped at the light for a moment. No coasting, and was finished shifting down.

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Other thing could be what you are hearing and feeling is the slack in the rear cush drive. You click into first and the transmission bites a little and pulls the chain forward removing all the slack in the rear cush drive.

Again, could this happen when stopped? The chain wouldn't have been moving because the wheels were not moving, right? And, what is the cush drive?

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

......... Today, I come up to the light, downshift into first like normal and then about a split second AFTER clicking into first, I hear what sounded like a clunk from under the bike. I heard it and felt it. It was very similar to the clunkiness of shifting into first BUT maybe a couple of times louder and stronger. And, the first gear clunk occurred like normal when I shifted into first right before I heard this noise.

I would explain exactly this to the dealer and ask for advise.

Can you check the slack of the chain by yourself?

The cush drive is a rubber coupling between the sprocket and the rear wheel.
It develops some rotational slack with time.

[dcj13]

Could you have possibly let the clutch out just a little bit without realizing it?

[adouglas]

That would be the transmissing.

You heard a clunk... and now it's missing.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I would explain exactly this to the dealer and ask for advise.

Can you check the slack of the chain by yourself?

The cush drive is a rubber coupling between the sprocket and the rear wheel.
It develops some rotational slack with time.

I have no idea how to check the chain slack. I wouldn't feel confident in doing so.

D.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Could you have possibly let the clutch out just a little bit without realizing it?

I really don't think I did, nope.

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

I have no idea how to check the chain slack. I wouldn't feel confident in doing so.

D.

The instructions for checking the slack are in your owner's manual.
You don't have to adjust it yourself, but it would be healthy to learn how to measure it.

You need to lube your chain every 200 or 300 miles of riding, I don't think that you will take the bike to the dealer just for that.
Instructions for doing that are in the same manual.

There is a set of simple inspection tasks that you should do regularly on your bike and that will need to learn to do sooner or later.
Those are not difficult to learn and can save your bike from expensive repairs.

Lubing and checking slack of the chain are among those simple inspection and maintenance tasks.

Please, take a look at these:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...9&postcount=17

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...9&postcount=20

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50404

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19368

[DSomething]

Thanks Motofool. Yeah, I was planning on cleaning and lubing the chain myself at 1200 miles since it was done at my 600 mile service (which was done at about 700). I feel like I can do that no problem.

Update: just came back from my ride. It happened again, except this time I'm sure it came from the chain. It sounded like it was snapping into place. Again, it happened immediately after I stopped after warming up for about 15 minutes.

Also, as I was riding, I noticed that when I was holding steady at around 30mph I was feeling the bike sloshing forward and back. I'm thinking my chain needs adjustment.

A few questions...

I have no idea how to do this, don't have the tools to even try, and I'm not even remotely confident in my mechanical ability to even attempt this. If I bring it to my dealer, how much do they typically charge for that?

If I'm under warrant, does this count towards my warranty?

Is it safe to ride the 25 miles to get it there?

Is there anything else I need to be aware of?

Thanks for your input and advice!

D.

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by DSomething

A few questions...

I have no idea how to do this, don't have the tools to even try, and I'm not even remotely confident in my mechanical ability to even attempt this. If I bring it to my dealer, how much do they typically charge for that?

No idea, I do majority, if not all my work. I imagine at $75 an hour. maybe $75

If I'm under warrant, does this count towards my warranty?

No unless you have one of those super rare cool Dealerships. Chain adjustments are considered a maintenance/wear and tear item.

Is it safe to ride the 25 miles to get it there?

depends on how much slack you have in your chain or how tight your chain is.

Is there anything else I need to be aware of?

Can't say without knowing more

Thanks for your input and advise!

D.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by DSomething

Again, it happened immediately after I stopped after warming up for about 15 minutes.

Can you clarify what you mean by warming up for 15 minutes?

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Alex

Can you clarify what you mean by warming up for 15 minutes?

I usually ride around in the neighborhood across the street for about 15 minutes. I warm up both my bike and myself, doing starts, stops, shifts up, and downshifts. I can get it up to 4th in there. I did that both yesterday and today, as usual.

Yesterday, the clunk noise occurred coming to the main stop light down the street of this neighborhood, after I shifted into first, within seconds of stopping. Today, I did the same routine; however, this time the clunk occurred coming to a stop, in the same way as yesterday, but in a different location on my ride.

However, BOTH instances happened relatively in the beginning of my ride...say, within the first 20 minutes (which includes the 15 minute warm up) and never occurred again throughout the ride (about an hour long or so).

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

Thanks Motofool. Yeah, I was planning on cleaning and lubing the chain myself at 1200 miles since it was done at my 600 mile service (which was done at about 700). I feel like I can do that no problem.

Update: just came back from my ride. It happened again, except this time I'm sure it came from the chain. It sounded like it was snapping into place. Again, it happened immediately after I stopped after warming up for about 15 minutes.

Also, as I was riding, I noticed that when I was holding steady at around 30mph I was feeling the bike sloshing forward and back. I'm thinking my chain needs adjustment.

A few questions...

I have no idea how to do this, don't have the tools to even try, and I'm not even remotely confident in my mechanical ability to even attempt this. If I bring it to my dealer, how much do they typically charge for that?

If I'm under warrant, does this count towards my warranty?

Is it safe to ride the 25 miles to get it there?

Is there anything else I need to be aware of?

Thanks for your input and advice!

D.

You are very welcome, D

Lubrication after 700 miles is not close to be enough.
The danger is in the O-rings of the chain getting dry and deteriorating the seal from external water for the internal lubricant.
When that happens, each link gains some pitch or distance between pins, resulting in a longer chain between both sprockets.
When the chain becomes too long, it also becomes too sloppy or loose and it could jump out of the sprockets.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133019

No need to panic.
You can easily do the inspection that my first link above explains.
If the chain moves up and down at the middle point more than 30 mm, then, the slack of the chain needs to be re-adjusted.
The farther from 30 mm it is, the more dangerous riding to the dealer it could be.

This thread could give you some options for mechanics closer to your home:
http://www.soflasportbikes.com/forum...ops-avoid.html

TT Motosports has good reviews and is located by Sample and Dixie.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You are very welcome, D

Lubrication after 700 miles is not close to be enough.
The danger is in the O-rings of the chain to get dry and deteriorating the seal from external water for the internal lubricant.
When that happens, each link gains some pitch or distance between pins, resulting in a longer chain between both sprockets.
When the chain becomes too long, it also becomes too sloppy or loose and it could jump out of the sprockets.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133019

No need to panic.
You can easily do the inspection that my first link above explains.
If the chain moves up and down at the middle point more than 30 mm, then, the slack of the chain needs to be re-adjusted.
The farther from 30 mm it is, the more dangerous riding to the dealer it could be.

This thread could give you some options for mechanics closer to your home:
http://www.soflasportbikes.com/forum...ops-avoid.html

TT Motosports has good reviews and is located by Sample and Dixie.

Thanks again Motofool, you're really an asset to us noobs. I am starting to think I may be taking too long between lube intervals, based on this experience, and your advice. Therefore, I plan on cleaning and lubing once a month (I only put about 200 miles per month on my bike). Would that be too much?

OK, just spoke to the dealer. He was very nice, took a lot of time with me on the phone (which counts for something these days). He said I should bring it in because they should really check it out. However, he was very nice in that he suggested I use it as one of the services on my prepaid plan (yes, I purchased the prepaid service plan because I'm useless mechanically). This way, I don't pay for a diagnostic check, will have my chain cleaned, lubed, and adjusted, and if they find anything, it will hopefully be under warranty to fix. I get 6 services over three years so I'm good there. This one will only be my second after the 600 mile service. I only ride an average of about 200 miles a month so I should be good for my 3,800 mile service as well.

In the future, or when I need something else I will definitely check out TT Motorsports. Riding down to Sunrise, especially if there may be an issue, is not something I want to do all the time.

Oh, and he also said that after they're done with my bike, they will show me how to check the slack. I will review the link you shared also. I'm a visual learner and then I have to do it so this combination should work well.

I'm hoping to be able to bring it in next weekend...weather permitting.

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

....... Therefore, I plan on cleaning and lubing once a month (I only put about 200 miles per month on my bike). Would that be too much?.........
I'm hoping to be able to bring it in next weekend...weather permitting.

Yes, I do it every full tank, which in my 250 is around 200 miles.
The trick is to keep the O-rings of each chain's link moist for the constant relative movement they have against the metal plates of the link.

Hope everything goes well.

[dcj13]

Makes me appreciate shaft drive all the more!

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, I do it every full tank, which in my 250 is around 200 miles.
The trick is to keep the O-rings of each chain's link moist for the constant relative movement they have against the metal plates of the link.

Hope everything goes well.

OK, just checked the slack as per your first links picture. If I'm measuring at the right location, which I think I am, it measures 1.25 inches, which is slightly out of the recommended range. I'm gathering because it's more than what the measurement should be by 0.05 inches that means it is loose.

Is it safe to ride to the dealership at this spec? To me, that's not exceptionally loose but I'm not sure if in the motorcycle world 0.05 is indeed way too loose.

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

OK, just checked the slack as per your first links picture. If I'm measuring at the right location, which I think I am, it measures 1.25 inches, which is slightly out of the recommended range. I'm gathering because it's more than what the measurement should be by 0.05 inches that means it is loose.

Is it safe to ride to the dealership at this spec? To me, that's not exceptionally loose but I'm not sure if in the motorcycle world 0.05 is indeed way too loose.

D.

1.25 inches = 31.75 mm, which is perfectly acceptable to ride to the dealership.

Nevertheless, going back to the noise of the original post, it is unlikely that the measured slack is the cause of the noise.

I would take the bike back to them and would focus on the abnormal clunking noise only (just as you have explained it here) and would let them find the possible cause.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

1.25 inches = 31.75 mm, which is perfectly acceptable to ride to the dealership.

Nevertheless, going back to the noise of the original post, it is unlikely that the measured slack is the cause of the noise.

I would take the bike back to them and would focus on the abnormal clunking noise only (just as you have explained it here) and would let them find the possible cause.

OK, cool. I can now ride to the dealership without worrying about the chain. I will certainly have them look into the clunk but ALSO adjust the slack. But, what if they don't find anything? Then what? I know what I heard and felt and if they can't replicate it or find something then I'd be worried.

D.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

OK, cool. I can now ride to the dealership without worrying about the chain. I will certainly have them look into the clunk but ALSO adjust the slack. But, what if they don't find anything? Then what? I know what I heard and felt and if they can't replicate it or find something then I'd be worried.

D.

It is only so much what we can do over the web.
If they are as good as we are, they will find the problem while being able to touch the bike.

We would like to know their diagnostic, please.

[DSomething]

Alrighty, just came back from the dealership...

They said that they didn't want to rip apart the bike because if they didn't find anything then I would have to pay for the time to rip it apart and try and find something that could not be replicated upon my arrival at the dealership.

They checked the clutch and oil level. They determined the oil level was way too high (filled the entire window) and said that could have been the cause of the clunk noise because there might have been too much oil pressure, which would cause the clutch to possibly have trouble engaging correctly.

They drained some of the oil and told me if I hear the noise again to bring it back. They felt pretty confident that was the cause. Now, they were the ones who put all that frickin oil in because they were the ones who did my first service

As for the chain, they cleaned, lubed, and adjusted the slack. It appears, from the alignment tick marks, they moved my wheel back maybe 1-2 millimeters. There was about 1.25 inches of play before I brought it in and now there's about 15 millimeters of play so they definitely tightened it.

All in all, it cost me a $20 tip to the guy who worked on my bike. They didn't write it up and it didn't cost me a service. It would have cost me $20 for the work on the chain anyway so whatever.

Good news is, I didn't hear the clunk on the ride there nor the ride back!!

D.

[dcj13]

Excellent news! Thank you much for the report.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

......... They determined the oil level was way too high (filled the entire window) and said that could have been the cause of the clunk noise because there might have been too much oil pressure, which would cause the clutch to possibly have trouble engaging correctly......

That is a real peculiar explanation !!!

Hope the noise does not come back.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

That is a real peculiar explanation !!!

Hope the noise does not come back.

I'm no mechanic, but what he explained is the high oil pressure might cause the clutch to have difficulty, which would cause a pop at times, and that pop could have been the clunk I heard.

Again, no clue about these things but tell me if that is completely absurd...please.

If it is, should I bring to TT Motorsports? Are they an authorized Kawi service place?

D.

[Ninjinsky]

Level wouldn't affect oil pressure (unless you run out) and oil pressure doesn't clonk anyway.
It is a wet clutch so again wouldn't make any difference.
The transmission (primary drive) can clonk if you have a misfire or the engine stumbles slightly.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

I'm no mechanic, but what he explained is the high oil pressure might cause the clutch to have difficulty, which would cause a pop at times, and that pop could have been the clunk I heard.

Again, no clue about these things but tell me if that is completely absurd...please.

If it is, should I bring to TT Motorsports? Are they an authorized Kawi service place?

D.

As Paul explained above, the pressure of oil has nothing to do with the level of oil in the clutch cavity.
The discs of the clutch rotate in a bath of non-pressurized oil and they slip or grab commanded by your hand lever: nothing to do with the random noise.

Again, no need to worry.
They adjusted the slack of the chain, which was the major suspect, and that should improve noises and safety.

I have no idea about what TT Motorsports are; I just found them in the web as a shop close to your area that had some good references.
Even if you take the bike to them or any other mechanic, they will find everything OK, unless they are able to reproduce the noise.

Keep an eye on the slack of the chain and lubricate it as frequently as 200~300 miles.
If the slack grows rapidly, the chain is worn and should be soon replaced.
If not, there is nothing to worry about, unless the noise returns.

[Aufitt]

If your chain has 15mm freplay it will be rooted in no time.
You'd be shocked to see how loose racers run chains for best performance, 35 mm at a bare minimum for me and Ive never had to adjust or replace a chain on a bike ive owned myself from new in my life.
Loose=Good
Tight= very bad.

Also there is no need to put bikes this down to first gear unless stopped or crawing pace.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

If your chain has 15mm freplay it will be rooted in no time.
You'd be shocked to see how loose racers run chains for best performance, 35 mm at a bare minimum for me and Ive never had to adjust or replace a chain on a bike ive owned myself from new in my life.
Loose=Good
Tight= very bad.

Also there is no need to put bikes this down to first gear unless stopped or crawing pace.

I get that tight is bad but it wasn't tightened out of the spec range so I'm good.

Also, I only click into first right before I stop so no worries there.

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

As Paul explained above, the pressure of oil has nothing to do with the level of oil in the clutch cavity.
The discs of the clutch rotate in a bath of non-pressurized oil and they slip or grab commanded by your hand lever: nothing to do with the random noise.

Again, no need to worry.
They adjusted the slack of the chain, which was the major suspect, and that should improve noises and safety.

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense now. For what it's worth, the bike did feel better on the ride home.

Originally Posted by Motofool

I have no idea about what TT Motorsports are; I just found them in the web as a shop close to your area that had some good references.
Even if you take the bike to them or any other mechanic, they will find everything OK, unless they are able to reproduce the noise.

Oh, ok. I'll look into some shops around here for the future. I know there's a shop in Margate...cycletek or something like that. Is where I went for my MSF. I'll check them out too.

Originally Posted by Motofool

Keep an eye on the slack of the chain and lubricate it as frequently as 200~300 miles.
If the slack grows rapidly, the chain is worn and should be soon replaced.
If not, there is nothing to worry about, unless the noise returns.

I am for sure going to be checking the slack and cleaning, lubing the chain more frequently. It sucked worrying about my bike. The worry made the ride less enjoyable and this is something that can easily be taken care of. Lesson learned.

D.

[xorbe]

My 1st gear is always rather clunky ...

[DSomething]

Yep, the clunk occurred again yesterday. Hadn't heard or felt it for about a month. This time, it for sure was felt and heard either from the rear brake pedal or that localized area. Again, it happened AFTER clicking into first and right when I stopped. It is NOT the clunk you feel WHEN clicking into first because I had already clicked into first.

As we thought it could be the chain before, I checked the slack and it's fine. Also can't be that the chain needs lubing because it was cleaned and lubed a little less than 200 miles ago.

Don't know if it's related but I also noticed my clutch is squeaking when I pull in the lever. I checked the mechanism near the clutch box and noticed there is no grease there. Thinking this could be related because the clunk was felt and heard in that area.

Could the clunk and squeak be related? Could I need to lube the clutch cable or grease that little mechanism by the clutch box? If so, is there a really good video on how to do that?

Thanks in advance for your insight!

D.

[csmith12]

Is there any movement or jerkiness associated with the clunk? When as the last time you had your rear wheel off? Cush drive is intact and all right?

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Is there any movement or jerkiness associated with the clunk? When as the last time you had your rear wheel off? Cush drive is intact and all right?

No movement or jerkiness as it always happens right when coming to a stop, after I'm already in first, almost immediately upon stopping.

I have never taken my wheel off. However, I did get me chain adjusted a little less than 200 miles ago but they don't take the wheel off, do they?

Cush drive...no clue what that is nor how to check to see if it is intact or OK. If you let me know how to do that I will check. Unless it requires taking something apart because I do not have confidence to do that without screwing anything up

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DSomething

.......... Could the clunk and squeak be related? Could I need to lube the clutch cable or grease that little mechanism by the clutch box?..........

The squeak comes from metal moving over metal without lubrication.
Put some oil or grease between any metal parts that slide or rotate respect to each other, mainly the head of the cable-lever.

Take a look at the nuts (92015) on the right side that work with those three long bolts shown on the left of this diagram.
Those should be tight and tend to get loose, allowing some movement of the engine respect to the frame when the chain is under/released from tension.

Use a 14mm socket and apply a torque value of 24 ft-lbs while holding the head of the long bolt:

http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslis...55092_83ae.gif

[csmith12]

Well, diagnosing clunks and other vibrations is actually pretty easy. But there are some common issues that go clunk.

Here are you next steps;

Pull the front brake hard and push down and forward on the bars. Clunk? If so, it's the head stem nut. Pretty common to work it's way loose as it's not super tight when all is good. Or, some dirt/grit has gotten to the bearings in there. You will know if it is from the stem nut as the clunk sound will come from high on the bike.

Next is the front brakes. Ensure all bolts are tight and the pads can slide freely on the slides. Sometimes brakes are noisy but properly cleaned and lubed calipers are fairly quiet.

Next would come the forks, stiction (sticking in place) in the forks can clunk if you're low on oil. Any fork oil leak?

Now comes the rear shock and swing arm. Same deal with the rear shock, any stiction and or fluid leaks? The swingarm may just need some cleaning and lube. Just the same as you pushed the front down, hold both brakes and push the rear down hard. Any clunks? If so, check chain, cush, brake caliper bolts, caliper cleanliness + lube and caliper mounting alignment. And make sure to check the upper and lower shock + dog mount bolts.

Also, check motor mount bolts, there are 3 or 4 of them. It's fairly common for one or two to work their way loose.

These are pretty simple machines overall, if you take your time... finding the source of sounds is pretty easy if you divide and conquer. Just don't try to find a sound while riding or with your helmet on. It masks the source bad enough to have you chasing your tail for a minute.

And since it seems you may need some direction on how to find stuff. Do a search, I am sure the repair manual is avail for download somewhere. If not... do yourself a favor and order one. The $35 it costs will pay itself back many times over from what you will save by doing the work yourself. AND.... you will know the work was done to your satisfaction.

Good luck and we are here to help as best we can.

[csmith12]

Other sources of pops and clunks are dry cables that suddenly break free from their binding. Your cables for clutch and throttle should be smooth, easy, free and SILENT! If not, they need lubed, rerouted or replaced before they cause a bigger problem.

[DSomething]

OK, well, I think I found the source of the clunk. I just investigated the bolts all around my rear break pedal and it appears that the black fairing, the one that says kawasaki, right below the break pedal is loose. It moves and when I move the tail of it up and down, and it clunks.

It seems to be moving where the bolt is right below the break pedal, it can wiggle relatively easily. I tried to tighten the bolt but it I can't tighten it any further than what it already is.

Is there another way to fix that?

[dcj13]

Remove the bolt, add a washer or two, and reinstall the bolt?

[DSomething]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The squeak comes from metal moving over metal without lubrication.
Put some oil or grease between any metal parts that slide or rotate respect to each other, mainly the head of the cable-lever.

Regardless of the source of the clunk...which I think I found, the clutch is definitely squeaking AT the mechanism by the clutch cover, on the bottom, right side of the bike.

So, how do I grease that part? Just put grease on my finger and try to grease that area up? Should I use oil instead? What grease and/or oil should I get? Any brand in particular?

Thanks for all your help!

D.