Refurbishing an old battery

[MrAtom]

So, motorcycle batteries go bad way quicker than a car battery because of the charging system that a motorcycle has. And, as we all know, there's stuff you can do to help prolong battery life (no short trips, using a tender, don't let it sit on low voltage, etc), there isn't much of a way around this. Little battery + lame charging system = shorter battery life.

But my question is, what exactly goes bad on the battery? I know someone's going to give me a lot of crap for this one, but here goes. Would refurbishing an old lead-acid battery be a hugely dangerous task like replacing the lead plates? Or could I just neutralize the acid in a container that the acid wouldn't eat away (just like in high school!), and replace the acid in the battery? Is it worth it? Is it cost effective?

[quarterliter]

I think I paid 40 some bucks for a battery for my 250. And I doubt anyone sells a "rebuild" kit for them. It's safe to say you would be better off buying a new one

[MrAtom]

I paid $70 for mine, and it's 4 amps instead of 6. I think I'll buy online next time

[flitecontrol]

I tend to get around five years from an automotive battery. I get much more than that from motorcycle batteries because I buy quality batteries. Yuasa makes the best batteries that fit the Ninja, and they aren't but a few dollars more than the made-to-fail-soon cheapo Chinese batteries.

The OEM Yuasa in my 2004 Rebel is still going strong. The bike gets ridden often and the battery hasn't been on a tender since I bought it.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by flitecontrol

I tend to get around five years from an automotive battery. I get much more than that from motorcycle batteries because I buy quality batteries. Yuasa makes the best batteries that fit the Ninja, and they aren't but a few dollars more than the made-to-fail-soon cheapo Chinese batteries.

The OEM Yuasa in my 2004 Rebel is still going strong. The bike gets ridden often and the battery hasn't been on a tender since I bought it.

Hey - we agree on something!

I also buy good batteries, and got about 7 years from my OEM Yuasa battery in my 2006 SV. Never used a tender either, just occasional charging over the off-season.

I believe the plates will sulfate and disrupt the internal connections eventually, killing the battery. There are electronic chargers that have "de-sulfate" settings if you feel it's an issue.

[M42]

There isn't any way to safely refurbish a battery, especially not at home. Pony up for a yuasa, it'll last a really long time. The stock yuasa on my SV lasted literally 10 years before dying.

[spent_too_much]

Sears in my area advertises a replacement for $20. It would not be worth playing with acid for that price.

[NevadaWolf]

Wow, really?

My stock Yuasa lasted three years. Just replaced it with the exact same thing. How y'all getting 7-10 years??

[ninjunk]

letting them go below 40% or sit at less than full charge will kill them fast.

also overcharging them.

a ground fault in the charging system can also overcharge them... blow bulbs too. you can check your system voltage with a DMM if you keep killing batteries and can't figure out what you are doing wrong.

the plates in a moto battery are much smaller, lighter, finer than in an auto battery so they can get the same voltage in a smaller package. they also have less reserve liquid so they get hotter faster and are more likely to dry out.

supposedly these new Shorai lithium-iron (not lithium ion) batteries are way superior to lead-acid. I haven't ponied up the cash to buy one yet but they are lighter, more capacity and more robust. Might be worth the investment if it is a recurring problem for you.
http://www.batterymart.com/p-shorai-...wZ8aAu0o8P8HAQ


I run Gel-cell batteries in some of my smaller bikes and 6v bikes... non electric start... they don't discharge as readily as liquid acid batteries and seem to last longer (forever? i've never had one die unless i did something really naughty) but usually they don't come in the right sizes with enough CCA for an electric starter.

[flitecontrol]

The AGM Yuasa batteries outlast the flooded cell type.

[dcj13]

Cool! A battery thread! It's about time...

[Hero Danny]

Messing with a battery can be dangerous... just a warning.

New batteries from amazon are fairly cheap... like $40 and you only need to buy one every 3 years or so.

[flitecontrol]

Buy this one and you shouldn't have to replace it for 5-10 years: http://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-YUAM327B.../dp/B000WJX29U

[fast1075]

A conventional lead/acid wet cell battery most often fails from sulfation caused by being discharged to a low level and left that way. The sulfur from the sulfuric acid in the battery reacts with the metals causing a white paste that covers the surface of the plates. The chemical reactions that produce the current are on the surface of the plates. Gooped up plates=loss of capacity. Most motorcycle batteries have a translucent case. If you see white splotches in the battery that is giving you trouble, it is DONE. You can check the chemical condition of the battery by checking the specific gravity of the electrolyte. Low specific gravity and uneven specific gravity between cells are indications of low charge, or failing cells.

To test a battery, it must first be properly charged.

If not sulfated, the next most common failure NOT caused by low charge/sulfation, is caused by vibration. The plates in the cells are connected together. vibration breaks the connections loose.

Ways you can murder a perfectly good battery: (a) Let it completely discharge. (b) Charging it at too high an amperage rate. (c) Charging overvoltage. (d) Letting it freeze (e) Not keeping it clean and dry. (A wet/dirty battery top will discharge itself through the electrically conductive gook.

Replacing the electrolyte accomplished nothing unless you tip the battery over and lose the original. Electrolyte is a mixture of sulfuric acid and demineralized water. The water can evaporate, but the acid cannot. Just keep the level full by adding water as needed.

It is a myth that you need to use distilled water. You can if you want, but the truth is, if you can drink it, you can use it in your battery.

AGM batteries are the next better thing than a wet cell. They don't spill, and can be mounted any way you like. If you choose to try a LIPO , LION, or other such batteries, chose and buy carefully, some are very, very fussy with charging systems, and the charging system on a 250 is not very sophisticated. You may need to change to a MOSFET regulator. Not hard to do really, just better voltage control.

The information above is from working 10 years in an auto-electric shop, and several Delco service schools. My best advice is for normal service and reliability, buy Yuasa. And one final parting shot: Batteries DO NOT "come charged". After you fill a battery, it must be fully charged at the correct rate and voltage until it is fully charged BEFORE you put it in service. Those that report "10 year" service life....I will guarantee you THAT battery was properly serviced before it was put to use.

[ninjunk]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Cool! A battery thread! It's about time...

Didn't realize this was a common occurrence, I guess that figures... i'll refrain from wasting valuable electrons.

also to add, i've had some bikes that just seem to love eating batteries. I had a C70 honda passport that chewed through one every year, and it was a pretty good sized battery running a very small moto.

I think the voltage regulator was corroded on its ground mounting screw, but i fixed that then sold the bike right after so never found out if that was the issue... probably not something that would happen on a late model bike, but worth checking. If the ground connection on the regulator has resistance, the chassis reference will 'float' above the true ground signal and make the battery voltage artificially high... at least on some systems, not sure if the ninja system would experience that fault.

if you are running heated clothing and stuff, which i saw from another thread, that could also be an issue. I noticed my ninja has a battery tray insert thing that makes it smaller but you could try to take that reducer out and shove a bigger battery in there. It wouldn't fix the problem but it might ease the cyclical load on your charging system if you are doing a lot of idling in traffic or something like that.

[MrAtom]

Hmm.. Okay. Not worth doing. I thought it probably wouldn't be thanks everyone.

[crazymadbastard]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Hmm.. Okay. Not worth doing. I thought it probably wouldn't be thanks everyone.

Just got this on the mail. Smaller dimensions than stock,Has internal balancing circuit weighs nothing And can mount anyway you choose.Was $70 from amazon. Crazy Stuff!

[ninjunk]

wow! that's pretty neato... a lot cheaper that the SHORAI ones.

you'll have to let us know how it works out. if the charging circuitry prevents it from going into deep draw and killing itself (i would assume it does) that alone should ensure much better life expectancy, as it seems like most moto batteries die from 1 or 2 deep draw incidents.

[crazymadbastard]

Originally Posted by ninjunk

wow! that's pretty neato... a lot cheaper that the SHORAI ones.

you'll have to let us know how it works out. if the charging circuitry prevents it from going into deep draw and killing itself (i would assume it does) that alone should ensure much better life expectancy, as it seems like most moto batteries die from 1 or 2 deep draw incidents.

You can use a lead acid charger(normal). My guess is the system will balance the battery- supposedly you should rebalance the "normal lithium" batteries a couple times a year which requires a special lithium charger.

[JohnnyBravo]

It doesn't have the proper zddp to be used in a motorcycle... Wait wrong thread

I don't like messing with batteries, got my fill working at a golf course, then really killed the battery crap in the army... Spend a few dollars an get a good one an ya won't have the problems

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

It doesn't have the proper zddp to be used in a motorcycle... Wait wrong thread

I don't like messing with batteries, got my fill working at a golf course, then really killed the battery crap in the army... Spend a few dollars an get a good one an ya won't have the problems

I love them Hawker batteries! They're great for welding and crap.

[JohnnyBravo]

Good batteries indeed!

[LNasty]

Bike sat for the last 4 days due to Tropical Bill. I forgot to put it on the tender and the battery went dead. I have the 8amp stanley charger that has a motorcycle setting and left it hooked up all night. Went to check this morning and showed that battery was fully charged, but when I went to start it, just clicked like it had before charging it. battery is now around 3 years old. Is it completely fried?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by LNasty

Bike sat for the last 4 days due to Tropical Bill. I forgot to put it on the tender and the battery went dead. I have the 8amp stanley charger that has a motorcycle setting and left it hooked up all night. Went to check this morning and showed that battery was fully charged, but when I went to start it, just clicked like it had before charging it. battery is now around 3 years old. Is it completely fried?

Probably, but it would be best to check the voltage before buying a new one.

Check the voltage as it sits - it should be 12.6V or higher if it's fully charged.

Then check it as you hit the starter button. If it drops below 10V it has an internal short and needs to be replaced.

A battery can show full voltage when not under load, then drop-off completely when any load is applied.

If it shows 12.0V or so when cranking you most likely have a bad connection in the starter circuit somewhere.