'06 cranks but won't start after accident

[Leflerm]

Hey everyone,
I have an ’06 ninja 250 and I recently did something stupid and put my bike down on the right side (leaned over too far on an on-ramp just after it had rained). Miraculously, I was able to pick it up and after a bit of coaxing, I was able to ride it home. Since then I have tried to start the bike multiple times, and the bike cranks, but it just won’t start.

I have done the following to try to get it running again:
Drained the carbs
Replaced the oil
Charged the battery (via a battery tender)
Checked the fuses (all good)
Replaced the spark plugs
Removed the carbs to clean them

The fuel has had stabilizer in it since the accident, so I don’t think it’s a fuel issue. The carbs were clean as a whistle when I opened them up, so I just put them back. My next step is to check that my plugs are sparking… Yes, I replaced the spark plugs without checking if they were an issue, but they were old anyway. Other than that, I have no idea what the problem could be.

I’d really appreciate any insight as to what’s wrong with my bike.

Side note: I’m not any type of mechanic, so I may have done something wrong when I replaced my spark plugs or put my carbs back, so any advice on how to properly reinstall the carbs or replace spark plugs is also appreciated!

[jkv45]

Does it crank rapidly but doesn't fire or does it crank slowly?

Do you have a volt meter?

Vacuum line to the carb connected? Have you opened the float bowls drains to see if there is gas?

Carb info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

Plugs/service info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Engine

[Triple Jim]

You're right to check for spark. That's the next step... seeing if it's an electrical problem or a fuel problem. No need to take out hte plugs, you can pull off the plug caps, insert your old plugs, and lay them on top of the engine. Then crank and watch for sparks.

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Does it crank rapidly but doesn't fire or does it crank slowly?

Do you have a volt meter?

Vacuum line to the carb connected? Have you opened the float bowls drains to see if there is gas?

Carb info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

Plugs/service info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Engine

It cranks like it normally would, so I guess the first one is correct (cranks rapidly but won't fire).

Yes, I have a multimeter, and I have checked to make sure my battery has adequate voltage.

Of course the vacuum line is connected. And as I said, I drained the carbs. Then when I tried to start it again, I turned the throttle enough to get fuel into the carbs. Then when I removed the carbs, I had to drain them again. So there's no problem with fuel getting into the carbs.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Leflerm

It cranks like it normally would, so I guess the first one is correct (cranks rapidly but won't fire).

Yes, I have a multimeter, and I have checked to make sure my battery has adequate voltage.

Of course the vacuum line is connected. And as I said, I drained the carbs. Then when I tried to start it again, I turned the throttle enough to get fuel into the carbs. Then when I removed the carbs, I had to drain them again. So there's no problem with fuel getting into the carbs.

Well then, if you have gas in the floatbowls you either have issues with the carb or you aren't getting spark.

Are you giving me attitude here?

Turning the throttle has nothing to do with getting gas to the carbs - the vacuum from cranking/running opens the diaphragm in the petcock and allows fuel to flow. That's why I was asking you to confirm fuel in the floatbowls.

You wouldn't be the first to forget to connect the vacuum line back to the petcock.

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Well then, if you have gas in the floatbowls you either have issues with the carb or you aren't getting spark.

Are you giving me attitude here?

Turning the throttle has nothing to do with getting gas to the carbs - the vacuum from cranking/running opens the diaphragm in the petcock and allows fuel to flow. That's why I was asking you to confirm fuel in the floatbowls.

You wouldn't be the first to forget to connect the vacuum line back to the petcock.

Haha, maybe a little bit of attitude for the vacuum line, but not for the next part. The tubes on my bike have been in the same position for so long that they practically connect themselves. I'd know if the vacuum line wasn't connected because there would be a hose that's not connected to anything where it clearly should be!
And thanks for the lesson on how the fuel gets to the carbs. I always thought the throttle controlled that, but I guess that just allows the fuel to get into the carbs, not how it travels to the carbs in the first place?

[adouglas]

<attitude> Have you checked the blinker fluid? </attitude>

[Triple Jim]

Pulling the throttle cable causes the main air passage to open (the "bore" or on cars, a "barrel"), letting air pass thru the carburetor. The moving air then draws gasoline from the float bowl through one or more fuel passages, so it mixes with the air before entering the engine.

Some carburetors have "accelerator pumps", which squirt a small amount of fuel into the carb bore when the throttle is opened. In that type of carb, opening and closing the throttle repeatedly will repeatedly squirt fuel into the man air passage, and when done too much when the engine isn't running, can cause "flooding". Our 250s do not have accelerator pumps, so opening and closing the throttle when the engine is not running doesn't do anything.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by adouglas

<attitude> Have you checked the blinker fluid? </attitude>

You should have seen the look on our heavy equipment platoon sgts face when I grounded his main Hy-Ex for a faulty "flux capacitor" and he went ordering for one to be delivered ASAP... He was promptly instructed he needed command level or higher authorization (so you know he went to see the big bosses); it was funny AF but my chest and arms hurt till I fell asleep; was totally worth it though!

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Pulling the throttle cable causes the main air passage to open (the "bore" or on cars, a "barrel"), letting air pass thru the carburetor. The moving air then draws gasoline from the float bowl through one or more fuel passages, so it mixes with the air before entering the engine.

Some carburetors have "accelerator pumps", which squirt a small amount of fuel into the carb bore when the throttle is opened. In that type of carb, opening and closing the throttle repeatedly will repeatedly squirt fuel into the man air passage, and when done too much when the engine isn't running, can cause "flooding". Our 250s do not have accelerator pumps, so opening and closing the throttle when the engine is not running doesn't do anything.

Good to know! Thanks for the explanation. Since my carbs are clean and there's no problem getting fuel into them, I'm going to assume it's an electrical issue. I'll post again when I get a chance to check the spark tonight!

[Triple Jim]

Just because carbs look squeaky clean doesn't mean the tiny passages responsible for idle aren't totally blocked, for example. Checking for spark is a first, easy step in narrowing down the problem.

[Leflerm]

Thanks, Triple Jim, but I checked all the tiny holes in the main jets and pilot jets and they were all clear. Like I said, clean as a whistle. The mechanic who helped me open them (I didn't have the JIS screwdriver, so I took my carbs in just to get the screws taken out) said they looked like they had just been rebuilt.

[Motofool]

The bike just doesn't like the way you have treated her.
What side did you fall over?

(Never mind - you have sparks; safety switches are OK).

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Just because carbs look squeaky clean doesn't mean the tiny passages responsible for idle aren't totally blocked, for example. Checking for spark is a first, easy step in narrowing down the problem.

I'm getting a spark from both sides. So it doesn't appear to be an electrical issue either... Any other ideas?

[Triple Jim]

Good information. I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought the problem was lack of spark. Your checking for spark and finding that it's there would indicate that you're on the right track to work on a fuel problem. Now you (we) need to start narrowing down that side of things.

How long has the bike been sitting since you crashed?

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Good information. I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought the problem was lack of spark. Your checking for spark and finding that it's there would indicate that you're on the right track to work on a fuel problem. Now you (we) need to start narrowing down that side of things.

How long has the bike been sitting since you crashed?

The bike has been sitting for about 4 and a half months. I attempted to start it again within the first two weeks of crashing, but it did the same thing then as it's doing now. And I tried to start it at least once every couple of weeks since then. I've also been moving the bike around so that the gas isn't sitting still for too long. Like I said in the initial post, it has stabilizer in it, but if you think replacing it will help, I'll give just about anything a try, haha

[Triple Jim]

If the pilot jets are clogged, moving the gas around or replacing it isn't going to help. I wonder if the crash stirred up some debris in the tank, which then found its way into the carbs. Do you have a fuel filter installed, or are you running just the tank screens?

I know you said the pilot jets were clear, but I'm still thinking they need a wire run through them, and a fuel filter installed.

[Leflerm]

No fuel filter, but like I said, the carbs looked like they had just been rebuilt. The main jets and pilot jets were all clear. I could see through the little holes and there was no debris anywhere that would be clogging them.
I think I maybe just don't want to take the carbs out again, haha. It's not that bad except for those fender bolts right in front of the rear tire. Those suckers are a pain in the ass to get to.

[Triple Jim]

Well, you have spark, your carbs are clean, and you have fuel getting to them. I guess you need to crank the engine and put a timing light on the spark plug wires to verify it's sparking at the right time, and you didn't shear the key and get the alternator rotor turned, or something like that.

[Leflerm]

That sounds like a lot of work, and it sounds like I might be better off just taking it to a mechanic:/

Is there anything else you can think of that I could do pretty easily?

[spent_too_much]

I keep thinking that perhaps a safety switch might be the culprit - but then it wouldn't even crank, right?

Fresh fuel never hurts.

Ths carbs are tough. I have rebuilt several in the last 6 months. Each time, I was sure that they were clean - everywhere. But, for my last set, I missed something, becuase it would take forever to start. I swapped out another set of carbs, that I knew were good, and it fired right up.

You mentioned that you are not that mechanically inclined, so perhaps a professional carb service is in order? Just in case something was missed...

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

I keep thinking that perhaps a safety switch might be the culprit - but then it wouldn't even crank, right?

Yes sir!, no crank and/or engine kill (if running) when a safety switch is the issue.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

...so perhaps a professional carb service is in order? Just in case something was missed...

If Leflerm told me he was tired of working on that bike and that I could have it, the first thing I'd do after I got it home would be to take the carbs aparts and verify that they're really clean.

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

You mentioned that you are not that mechanically inclined, so perhaps a professional carb service is in order? Just in case something was missed...

Never said I wasn't mechanically capable. Just said I wasn't a mechanic. I am able to take something apart and put it back together with good precision. And I am usually pretty meticulous. When I say I just put the carbs back, I checked everything before doing so, just to be sure. Also, before the accident I asked a mechanic how much it would be to get my carbs done, and they gave me a quote of ~$700... which is more than half of what I paid for the bike!

As for you, Triple Jim, I am reasonably confident that the carbs are not the issue. When the mechanic took out the screws, he also took out the jets because he didn't believe how clean they were. Seriously, my carbs are good. Are there any other things that might cause a problem similar to dirty carbs?

[Triple Jim]

Once I got through checking the carbs, I'd do what I suggested above and find out when the sparks were happening. Like if the pickup wires got reversed and the sparks were happening at the wrong time, it wouldn't run, for example.

For future reference, Gordon (Ducatiman) here on the board does pro carb work. I haven't had him do work for me, but some of the guys here might be able to tell you what he charged them. I have a feeling it's less than $700, probably much less.

[juliusmichaelhonrada]

if your lazy like me and doesnt care about things that much i would spray straight unleaded gasoline in the carbs while cranking , im not responsible if anyone dies .

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

For future reference, Gordon (Ducatiman) here on the board does pro carb work. I haven't had him do work for me, but some of the guys here might be able to tell you what he charged them. I have a feeling it's less than $700, probably much less.

Good Lord, significantly less

Leflerm..Wow, a carb clean quote of $700 is tacit code for "we don't want to work on your bike".

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

Good Lord, significantly less

Leflerm..Wow, a carb clean quote of $700 is tacit code for "we don't want to work on your bike".

Yeah, I figured that was maybe on the high side of things. I just assumed it was because it would take a while to take it apart and put it back together again, but having now done that myself, I can't imagine it would take that much effort for someone who is experienced at that sort of thing.

[obake]

Is the engine moving air through it?

I mean I would suspect carbs 99% of the time, but it is possible that a side impact knocked something loose that wouldn't normally come out.

Pulling off the valve cover and checking that your rockers are as they should be is fast and easy compared to another round of re-re-re-cleaning carbs.

I am also assuming the airbox and filter were put back in place so the already lean-running idle isn't so lean it won't run.

[Leflerm]

Originally Posted by obake

Is the engine moving air through it?

I mean I would suspect carbs 99% of the time, but it is possible that a side impact knocked something loose that wouldn't normally come out.

Pulling off the valve cover and checking that your rockers are as they should be is fast and easy compared to another round of re-re-re-cleaning carbs.

How do I check if the engine is moving air through it? I admit, I'm kind of a noob at this, so is there a good video or something that shows how to do what you suggested?

Originally Posted by obake

I am also assuming the airbox and filter were put back in place so the already lean-running idle isn't so lean it won't run.

I put everything back as it was, so it should start like normal if it was going to start.