December 2nd, 2015, 01:01 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Looking for advice
I have a video here of me riding at the FAST Riding School Phase 2 this past summer and was wondering if anyone has time to watch to give me advice on what I may be doing right or wrong.
I am 5'7" 150 lbs without gear, riding a stock Ninja 300 ABS with race fairings. I set the tire pressure to 30 psi front and back cold and did not even change the clicker on the suspension. I am not worried about any harsh criticism as you won't hurt my feelings. Any help would be appreciated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFHj_E3RnuQ Edit: I posted this exact same thread on multiple forums to get different perspective from different people, if anyone is interested in reading on the advice of others you can check out these links. This one is from a Toronto, Ontario, Canada based forum: http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...ing-for-advice This one is from a Ninja 300 forum: http://www.kawasa***************/for...ritique-2.html Last futzed with by Supernam; December 10th, 2015 at 10:57 AM. Reason: included links to other threads on same topic |
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December 2nd, 2015, 01:11 PM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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I watched a bit from the link in your other thread. Is this your first time at any track or just this one?
I will watch it all and get back with ya. EDIT: NM, I see this is your 3rd time on track.
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December 2nd, 2015, 03:34 PM | #3 |
Cat herder
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Jerky camera makes it a bit hard to really see what's going on...
I'm no expert, but overall I think you look pretty good. Better than some of those around you. You're not crossed-up. From what I can tell you look pretty smooth. Upper body does look a bit stiff to me. I'm the same height as you and I'm sure you can get more dynamic on the bike. Chris knows best. Listen to him.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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December 2nd, 2015, 06:28 PM | #4 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
Quote:
Any advice on my leg/knee positioning? |
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December 2nd, 2015, 06:32 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kate
Location: South Bay, CA
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ninja 300, Yamaha TTR 125 Posts: 124
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The video doesn't paint a great picture and even though I'm no expert, I've taken enough riding courses to know that the instructors would definitely tell you to work on your body position. I don't know if you're sliding your butt off the seat at all but your upper body seems like it needs to be off the bike more. Try leading with your outside shoulder and "kiss the mirror"
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December 2nd, 2015, 11:20 PM | #6 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
Finally got to watch the vid in its entirety. It's not the best to gauge things from, but much better than nothing. I wish I could hear your throttle control but alas... Things that I noticed for a rider on his 3rd track day. 1. Get off the seat earlier, before hitting the brakes as best you can 2. The timing of your looking and turning is off, keep your eyes at least one step ahead. Look before you turn. 3. You're missing your apexes every now and then because of #2 but mostly because your tip in points are different lap per lap (points will give you consistency ) 4. When you're on the rear wheel of someone, don't follow their lines... making their same riding errors. Their riding leaks into yours if you visual linger on them too long and it gets worse and worse the longer you follow them. Ride your own ride, even when following them. 5. Slide back off the tank a bit. (Had to watch in slo-mo for this one) Things I liked. 1. Great self control and restraint on entry to turn 1 and other corners. Notice how your line would intersect with other riders if you didn't hold back and anticipate. Well done... 2. Overall pace as consistent throughout the lap, not camping any specific corner and such. 3. Seems like you mostly set a line and keep it, with only a few "major" steering corrections. Do you feel yourself ever adding lean + throttle at the same time? Why do you think that is? How do you feel about steering the bike? Based on this video, do you feel you steer quickly? Is steering the bike related to #'s 2, 3 & 4 from the list of tips? Could you benefit from steering faster? Last question... What were the temps in this video? Were you able to relax? Looks like a fun track, bigger than kart tracks but smaller than the big ones. Seems like a perfect fit for the smaller cc bikes. Thanks for sharing and hope to help.
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December 2nd, 2015, 11:30 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Here is one more tip I wish I was told earlier on in my track riding.
When you catch up to traffic and rules prevent a pass, use that time very wisely. You're going slower than you normally would right? Then why aren't your throttle control, lines and apex's perfect during those times? What else are you thinking about...? Many riders cruise through hot pit slowly to get clear track, but all those half laps start to add up to a lot of wasted time. Feel me?
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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December 3rd, 2015, 05:03 PM | #8 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
Quote:
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December 3rd, 2015, 09:09 PM | #9 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205642
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 4th, 2015, 10:09 AM | #10 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Ah, cool.
Your next time at the track, let's focus on these 2 items as they are fundamental skills that many other skills are built upon. Quote:
Assuming your throttle control is good... if not start there. In the material, you will find 3 chapters concerning vision. Directly related to my comments is found in chapter 23, the two step drill. The two step drill trains you on WHAT to look at and WHEN to look at it. Don't worry, 3 chapters is only like 10 or so pages. It's a quick read. The other section related to my comments is chapter 18, steering. How quick, how much and where... Per your current riding, start with the "where" part. Once you know where to turn, you can then set a brake marker based of that turn point. And lemme add one more specific note since you are actively searching for workable lines. Through any corner there are multiple good lines. When you pick a turn in point and give it a try, how do know it's a good line? What can you use to judge it?
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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December 4th, 2015, 08:13 PM | #11 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
I think it is a good line when I can neutral throttle and hit the apex, then gradually throttle on after apex and accelerate without running of the track. Each time I get to the corner I try it, then I try it faster the next time around. |
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December 4th, 2015, 08:43 PM | #12 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
It is basically saying to do a quick flick smoothly to hit apex then throttle on to stand the bike up. I am not sure this applies to track riding. |
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December 5th, 2015, 07:04 AM | #13 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
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sounds crazy and maybe insane, but the best advice i have gotten for riding a 250r at the track was "more throttle and less brakes."
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December 5th, 2015, 07:41 AM | #14 | ||
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Quote:
Re when you roll on the throttle... from the TOTW2 book (and it's also quoted in the video): Quote:
The sooner you can reduce those cornering forces, the sooner you can get on the throttle because you'll free up some of your traction budget that you can then use for acceleration. When you quick flick, you're at max lean for less time. Therefore you can get on the throttle sooner and get a better drive out of the corner. Absolutely applicable to track riding. Seriously... just buy the book and the video. Read/watch repeatedly. It won't sink in the first time, or even the first five times.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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December 5th, 2015, 08:02 PM | #15 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Quote:
In fact, if you google up some CSS reviews of the level 1 course. You will find that it very much mirrors the same tips I gave you, however.... they present it much better than I did. Here are the lvl 1 drills, in the order they give them; (steering drill in paddock) 1. throttle control 2. turn points 3. quick turn 4. relax 5. 2 step turning (vision drill)
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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December 6th, 2015, 06:13 PM | #16 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
Quote:
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December 7th, 2015, 12:00 PM | #17 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): currently: Yamaha YZF 250 dirt/motard Posts: 787
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Quote:
And follow everything else he has suggested and you'll be riding like a pro in no time If you have any more specific questions about any of the techniques you are reading up on let me know as I've coached with CSS for 11 years now and I've also ridden raced at Shannonville :dance cool: Misti
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December 9th, 2015, 12:28 AM | #18 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
So basically, don't worry about body position as much and focus on throttle, eyes and quick turning first? I always associate body position with greater corner speed, so that is why I placed that as high importance. But I guess if I can't so the previous 3 things properly, that would affect my corner speed a lot more. Does that sound right? Last futzed with by Supernam; December 10th, 2015 at 10:40 AM. Reason: spelling |
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December 9th, 2015, 01:41 AM | #19 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Maybe I missed it or did nobody talk about the way how to use the brake?
This in my opinion is an important point also but in many cases forgotten. So please help me someone to describe in an understandable way what I would say in German with the word 'ride in a precise and smooth line'. Plus a second important point is that the suspension setup is just as stiff as needed and not 'too hard' what also helps to ride a 'clean line'. |
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December 9th, 2015, 07:14 AM | #20 |
Cat herder
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If "ride a precise and smooth line" refers to braking, then I'd say it means to avoid grabbing the brakes. Apply, then squeeze hard... as you release, also release smoothly.
The reason behind the "apply then squeeze hard" has to do with the front tire contact patch. As the weight transfers forward under braking, the tire deforms and the contact patch grows, giving you more traction. If you suddenly grab the brake, the tire doesn't have time to do this and you're more likely to lock the front. When you squeeze, you're allowing the contact patch to grow a bit, which then allows you to brake much harder. One of the biggest eye-openers for me when I hit the track was just how hard you can brake. That's hard to get used to if you drive like I do... in my car I use the brakes as little as possible, for efficiency's sake.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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December 9th, 2015, 07:03 PM | #21 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Yes, I think that's a good way to describe what I'd want to say, in German language it would be much easier for me. I think everybody knows the word: 'He won the fight for the corner or the race on the brake.' |
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December 10th, 2015, 10:44 AM | #22 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
Quote:
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December 10th, 2015, 11:26 AM | #23 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Overbraking is one of the most common rider issues. We all do it to some extent.
You can't pick a good braking marker and work to improve braking skills until you have a really good, workable turn point and entry speeds. When your ready, read this first (picking a brake marker). Then after having worked on getting your turn points and entry speeds perfect, give this a read to improve it even further. Other members have contributed a lot of good stuff on braking as well. If you do some basic searches, it should keep you busy for a while.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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December 10th, 2015, 03:16 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 33
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Quote:
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December 10th, 2015, 03:17 PM | #25 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
"Braking itself is an art within the art of cornering. Your sense-of-speed is the underlying resource you have to get it right." - Keith Code http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=310 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...showtopic=2423 http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/bl...kes-code-break http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/bl...ing-code-break
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 10th, 2015, 07:05 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Brad
Location: Denver
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Three tips from me: Ass off the seat a little more. Get your head and torso down towards the tank more. and lastly, move your head further off the bike and your torso should follow.
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December 10th, 2015, 07:32 PM | #27 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
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All the great advisors here have already covered everything. I'd only add you really look stiff. Any athlete will tell you to be loose and nimble. Loosy goosy. No matter what's happening; your body and arms need to be relaxed.
Shannonville is a great track! I'm jealous!
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December 14th, 2015, 12:59 PM | #28 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): currently: Yamaha YZF 250 dirt/motard Posts: 787
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Quote:
That would be my suggestion first, yes. Your body position looks fine for right now and you are correct that throttle control, vision and quick turning will affect your corner speed a lot more than your body position. If you were extremely crossed up or shoving the bike underneath you then I may address body position first but from the video i'd say work on those things first....then we can look at your body position
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December 14th, 2015, 01:01 PM | #29 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): currently: Yamaha YZF 250 dirt/motard Posts: 787
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