E10 + water = gasoline + ?

[Motofool]

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012DecEthanol.pdf

[Joshorilla]

Ethanol is hydrophillic, petrol is hydrophobic, you can seperate the two quite easilly that way I guess by decanting the junk, if you went on the evaporate the ethanol from the water you'd have yourself some moon shine!

[lgk]

Im lucky enough to still be able to get pure gas from an airport nearby.
The bike runs a lot better with it, so does the lawnmower and weed eater.

Using phase separation to purify gasoline is genius.
A good way to get the octane back is to add toluene.
When add oxygenators then its gas+.

Ethanol pump gas is gas-.

[Joshorilla]

It's all E5 here, which nobody seems to have a problem with.

I certainly don't mind E5

Since I am a boat owner I can buy duty free petrol and diesel for my "boat" which are both pure uncut dinosaur distillate jungle juice.

[rojoracing53]

This is very cool and if I can figure out how to do it with 15 gals a shot it may be worth while. Do you think DOT will have a problem with me towing a 15gal VP racing can behind the Ninjette for a few miles so I don't have to use my truck?

I'd love to see some do a Dyno comparison between E10, race gas and pure gas using this method. Since you lose octane and we use 87 anyways we should be able to use 91 for this and avoid needing an octane booster right?

[Snake]

All my vehicles and equipment now run terrible with E10. I hate to see what's going to happen when E15 comes out.

[rojoracing53]

Ok so I'm going to use an old plastic 5 gal gas can for this and I'm currently ordering all the nessisary parts to complete the rid. We're going to be running pure fuel this weekend. Ill be sure to post pics of what I end up with.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Since you lose octane and we use 87 anyways we should be able to use 91 for this and avoid needing an octane booster right?

So quick napkin math if you use E10 91 octane and you separate out the ethanol. Assuming ethanol has a 113 octane rating after separating you'd end up with an octane rating of 88.6.

[Joshorilla]

You could mix the pure petrolium distilate with the e10 in a 50 / 50 blend to get a compromise of e5 which runs great in my ninja.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

You could mix the pure petrolium distilate with the e10 in a 50 / 50 blend to get a compromise of e5 which runs great in my ninja.

Um where do you buy pure petrolium distilate?

Haha forget I asked this

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Panda

So quick napkin math if you use E10 91 octane and you separate out the ethanol. Assuming ethanol has a 113 octane rating after separating you'd end up with an octane rating of 88.6.

And if I start with 89 ill end up with 86.3

I love math

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Um where do you buy pure petrolium distilate?

Haha forget I asked this

Ha, no.

Petrolium being the stuff they get out the ground to make "gas", diesel, kerosene, all extracted by distillation.

Hence petroleum distilate, since the only petroleum distilate available to buy for automotive gas was what you'd call "gas" it got shortened to petrol, which is why british people say petrol, americans seem to like calling it gas, despite the fact that it isn't a gas, it's a liquid

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Ha, no.

Petrolium being the stuff they get out the ground to make "gas", diesel, kerosene, all extracted by distillation.

Hence petroleum distilate, since the only petroleum distilate available to buy for automotive gas was what you'd call "gas" it got shortened to petrol, which is why british people say petrol, americans seem to like calling it gas, despite the fact that it isn't a gas, it's a liquid

LOL

This post me made laugh.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Ha, no.

Petrolium being the stuff they get out the ground to make "gas", diesel, kerosene, all extracted by distillation.

Hence petroleum distilate, since the only petroleum distilate available to buy for automotive gas was what you'd call "gas" it got shortened to petrol, which is why british people say petrol, americans seem to like calling it gas, despite the fact that it isn't a gas, it's a liquid

I knew petrol is basically gasoline but I wasn't sure where to get pure petrol. Then I remembers this cool article discribing how to use water and pump gas to render pure petrol

[Brother Michigan]

http://pure-gas.org/

Ethanol-free gas listings!

[lgk]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

And if I start with 89 ill end up with 86.3

I love math

You going to mix back some toluene?

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by lgk

You going to mix back some toluene?

I shouldn't have to since we run such low compression.

[rojoracing53]

This is a 400cc test with 20cc of water added. So if the fuel really is E10 then I should end up with 60cc at the bottom of separation. After 10 minutes I've only got 45 so we'll see what it looks like in the morning.

[rojoracing53]

Alright so now I'm working with 4 gals of 91 from shell.

I added 1000cc of water shook it a lot, then an hour later I drained out 2200cc of water/ethanol mix. So you subtract the 1000cc of water and your left with 1200cc of ethanol. 1200cc of 4gals is 7.9%

I'd say that was a successful test, now I just have to find some dummy willing to pour this stuff into his tank

[lgk]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Alright so now I'm working with 4 gals of 91 from shell.

I added 1000cc of water shook it a lot, then an hour later I drained out 2200cc of water/ethanol mix. So you subtract the 1000cc of water and your left with 1200cc of ethanol. 1200cc of 4gals is 7.9%

I'd say that was a successful test, now I just have to find some dummy willing to pour this stuff into his tank

if i was closer i would try it, lol.

[five10]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

This is a 400cc test with 20cc of water added. So if the fuel really is E10 then I should end up with 60cc at the bottom of separation. After 10 minutes I've only got 45 so we'll see what it looks like in the morning.

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Alright so now I'm working with 4 gals of 91 from shell.

I added 1000cc of water shook it a lot, then an hour later I drained out 2200cc of water/ethanol mix. So you subtract the 1000cc of water and your left with 1200cc of ethanol. 1200cc of 4gals is 7.9%

I'd say that was a successful test, now I just have to find some dummy willing to pour this stuff into his tank

What're the results of this?

[rojoracing53]

Ok so I dumped in the 4 gals minus the 1200cc of removed ethanol I had made last week and went for a ride on Saturday. As expected there were no changes in performance and it just ran like normal. I didn't have enough fuel to top off the tank so I can't give you an MPG estimate but I will tell you I used every last drop I put in. When I filled the tank the next time on the ride I put in over 4.8 gals so I know I was on fumes. I'd be curious to see how much it change my jetting but without a dyno it'd be hard to messure.

If I was a weekend rider then I would give this a better shot and continue doing it since I could probably get away with one batch a month. But since I fill my bike of once or twice a week its just not worth it.

I read that there was talk about the new e-15 regulations may require a seperate E0-E10 pump just for motorcycles. If this is the case then maybe we could get E0 more readily available. My guess is we'd have to pay a premium price and I bet the best we'd get in CA would be E10

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

..........I read that there was talk about the new e-15 regulations may require a seperate E0-E10 pump just for motorcycles............

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...676#post705676

[lgk]

i wonder if you could freeze concentrate the ethanol you extract from this

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by lgk

i wonder if you could freeze concentrate the ethanol you extract from this

Not sure but it seems to make a great base for moonshine so far

[lgk]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Not sure but it seems to make a great base for moonshine so far

you drank it!!!1!11!

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by lgk

you drank it!!!1!11!

Not strait

You have to distill it first

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

now I just have to find some dummy willing to pour this stuff into his tank

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Ok so I dumped in the 4 gals minus the 1200cc of removed ethanol I had made last week and went for a ride on Saturday.

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Not sure but it seems to make a great base for moonshine so far

Originally Posted by lgk

you drank it!!!1!11!

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Not strait

hilarious!

[GlassAnkles]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

http://pure-gas.org/

Ethanol-free gas listings!

+1 this should be a sticky on ALL motorcycle forums.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by GlassAnkles

+1 this should be a sticky on ALL motorcycle forums.

Works for everywhere but Ca

[rojoracing53]

Pulled 1400cc of Ethanol out of 5 gals today which is 7.3%

I can't seem to get that last 2 or so % or maybe the E10 is slightly shy I'm going to do the whole process again tomorrow with the pure fuel I mad today and see if I can get even more out.

Also my new setup is much easier to use

[lgk]

At first i figured it could be 10% by weight, but it still doesnt add up.

Add 20% more water see what happens.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by lgk

At first i figured it could be 10% by weight, but it still doesnt add up.

Add 20% more water see what happens.

I'm already at adding 5% water which is more then double the recommended 2% but that's why I'll add 5% again tomorrow and see what happens.

[lgk]

If you cant extract any more,
im guessing either its just the blend of the distributor, or the moisture inside the gas station storage tank absorbed 2%.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by lgk

If you cant extract any more,
im guessing either its just the blend of the distributor, or the moisture inside the gas station storage tank absorbed 2%.

The stickers at the pumps state: "Contains up to 10% Ethanol".

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The stickers at the pumps state: "Contains up to 10% Ethanol".

I'm aware it's up to 10% but I figure they would have that stuff dial in to within 1/2 a % if it's a way for them to make more money.

Also I've been looking the last couple weeks and can find anything on any of the pumps stating there is ethanol in the mix, maybe CA doesn't require labeling

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, someone take a picture of where the label is located please.

[rojoracing53]

So I was able to get another 150cc out of the same 5 gals from yesterday so now that's 8.1% ethanol removed. I'm starting to think the mix needs to be agitated several times every few minutes at least a couple times to get full absorption and separation to happen. It's like the ethanol content in the petrol is not constant and unless the water directly comes in contact with it it won't seperate it. It seem total osmosis doesn't occur naturally.

[Panda]

If you're judging percentage by volume it's not going to be completely accurate. When the water and ethanol mixes I think you are going to lose some volume. Also not sure this is an osmotic process.

[crazymadbastard]

How is this working out? I've noticed if I leave out my lawnmower uncovered in the rain I have to drain the carb bowls to get it working again...

[Bubba]

In parts of Europe, bike shops are starting to sell drums of ethanol free gas, as all pump gas will have ethanol this year. It's really expensive.
old bikes and engines will get ruined with ethanol gas.