A moral dilemma

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Seems we are saying the same things different ways. Yep, the military channel shows certain things, like I said... "for show". However, my problem doesn't lie there. It is with the general public; who mostly act like they have no brains, no self control, understand no consequence for their actions and expect 100% perfection.

Osama did great, he accomplished his goal, and as it relates to this thread.... The goal is to stop the train with as little collateral damage possible, the lever and the large man are tools. Much like a drone, it's how you use them that makes it bad. Pulling the lever, some may say is not bad but pushing a man over the bridge to his certain death can be considered an act of the same measure of doing nothing and letting 5 rail workers die.

And... fyi. My grandfather used to work for NASA. We talked alot and he showed me plenty of pics. The stuff you see on the military channel is just the toys they let the kids play with. Still to this day... the art of deception is the most powerful force on the planet. Facebook is nothing more than a distraction and/or decoy at best.

Facebook & Google, the 2 biggest intelligence services in the world, they know more about anyone than the Stasi CIA & KGB ever could have hoped to.

[csmith12]

You think so? Because I also have 0 doubts.

While everyone complains about FB chat app security, only but a few complain about the tower that gets built close to their location, because it improves their cell signal. Now think further.... how many wireless frequencies are coming out of your house right now that can be caught by that tower? I assure you, what channel your TV is on right now is being logged for review on some report somewhere.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You think so? Because I also have 0 doubts.

While everyone complains about FB chat app security, only but a few complain about the tower that gets built close to their location, because it improves their cell signal. Now think further.... how many wireless frequencies are coming out of your house right now that can be caught by that tower? I assure you, what channel your TV is on right now is being logged for review on some report somewhere.

that is why i did this:

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You think so? Because I also have 0 doubts.

While everyone complains about FB chat app security, only but a few complain about the tower that gets built close to their location, because it improves their cell signal. Now think further.... how many wireless frequencies are coming out of your house right now that can be caught by that tower? I assure you, what channel your TV is on right now is being logged for review on some report somewhere.

They've got shed loads of data on every one of their members, both can probably tell not only what you had for breakfast, but where you bought it, how much you paid for it & which of their advertisers could sell you it cheaper...

That's how they make money.

Facebook was seriously criticised recently for not sharing their info on a terrorist who planned an attack in London, they'd closed 7 of his profiles for posting terrorist material & he'd planned the attack through it.

That info was passed on a month after the attack

[eddiekay]

Given that FB and all social media are businesses first, I believe that all of the publiciity about guarding privacy is disinformation. I mean, what better way to catch a thief than to make him think his secrets are safe with you.
Assuming you want to catch the thief in the first place.

[tnr4]

This thread is awesome! Turns out, I'm a philosophy professor, and I use trolley problems in every class I teach. I just taught Bioethics this semester, and I used it to illustrate the 'Doctrine of Double Effect', which is very close to what Alex wrote. Those who endorse it claim that it is worse to intentionally kill for the sake of promoting some foreseeable good than it is to intentionally promote some good, while foreseeing that a death will result. This sort of reasoning is used to explain why a physician is allowed to administer morphine to a dying patient for the sake of relieving pain, while foreseeing that it will hasten death, but not allowed to administer morphine to kill the patient, for the sake of relieving pain. It also is used in just war theory to explain why 'strategic bombing' is allowed to defeat an enemy, sometimes even when children are collateral damage, but bombing the same number of children, say, in a school, for the sake of defeating an enemy (by demoralizing them) is not allowed.

See, I tell my students every day: philosophy is fun!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by tnr4

Those who endorse it claim that it is worse to intentionally kill for the sake of promoting some foreseeable good than it is to intentionally promote some good, while foreseeing that a death will result.

the way you phrased it makes it sound like a bunch of bullshit that winds up with the same result though.



thinking about this phrase more....... i just perfectly described all of life, didn't I? "a bunch of bullshit that winds up with the same result" ... haha maybe too much cynicism

[csmith12]

Having life values and conscience must be a heavy burden to many people.

[eddiekay]

I agree that the thread is excellent. So excellent it reminds me of a vintage joke:
The soldier is taking a shower and whacking off
The DI happens upon him and scolds him:
Soldier...no whacking off allowed in the shower!
The soldier replies
Sarge, it's a part of my body and I can wash it as fast as I want.

[LittleRedNinjette]

[subxero]

What if you were secretly sleeping with the lone guys wife?

Does that change things more towards murder or just chaulk it up as 2 birds with 1 stone?

[alex.s]

i like the old spiderman "can only save one" decision.

do you save the train full of a few hundred people falling to their deaths?

or do you save the one girl you love?

i'd go for the one i loved. be damned, the rest of yous.



whats ****ed up though is spiderman always managed to save both somehow. stupid.

[subxero]

There is always the unknown, could be like Saving Private Ryan.

The person you save today can shoot you in the back tomorrow.

Maybe one of the 5 guys you saved by killing the lone guy is planning on murdering 10 people in 3 days who knows?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by subxero

Maybe one of the 5 guys you saved by killing the lone guy is planning on murdering 10 people in 3 days who knows?

ever heard of chaos?

some things you cannot predict.

[subxero]

Chaos?

[alex.s]

you forgot the most obvious, the chaos crystals from sonic!

[corksil]

But who was horn?

If someone was train horn, maybe dumb people would act smart and get out of way.

Lol wait what actually is this discussion? From my understanding --- there is a large vehicle rolling down hill, and it can't stop itself -- and there are idiots who stand in it's path.

Who is idiot? Person who gets run over by train, or person who drives train an doesn't blow horn to warn other idiot that train is coming?

Beep Beeeeeep! Excuse me while I tug a tonka truck and play with matchbox cars.

[alex.s]

runaway train with no operator or passengers