Frame no title, ground up project

[shavelieva]

Anyone ever bought a frame without a title and then successfully titled it?

[Jono]

I have a frame with a title which I can't get titled. Haha. If I ever need to use the frame I will sand it down. Remove the vin. Get frame powdercoated and then stamp my old frames vin onto the new frame. Not legal and I wouldn't recommend it. Haha.

[alex.s]

i've heard horror stories about it

[Apex]

I'll put it this way:


You will NEVER catch me buying any frame, bike, car, or whatever, without a title. No way.

[csmith12]

Your in KY.... you don't wanna go down this path if you can help it. Getting a salvage title is hard enough but much faster.

[csmith12]

Do a VIN check before you buy. Buy stolen... you might as well just throw your $$ away.

[shavelieva]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Do a VIN check before you buy. Buy stolen... you might as well just throw your $$ away.

I've read various accounts of doing out of state titling. any experiences?

[csmith12]

What do you mean by out of state? Buying a bike that was fully titled and registered in another state?

Yea, I have done out of state titling and out of state rebuild titles. You can pretty much look at the bike and know if it's going to be a huge pain in the as*.

If the bike has an in tact VIN, not stolen and the odometer is in place and looks half way right in terms of mileage, then titling it will not be a problem, even if you must go through the rebuild process to get a salvage title.

If your missing any one of those things. Or the VIN or mileage is questionable then it becomes a huge mess. Involving copies of insurance papers, police reports along with the normal paperwork required.

The other hard part is filling out the crap forms for verifying mileage when no odometer is present. Your better off buying a gauge and installing it before getting the inspection.

And don't forget you will need a notary to put their seal on most of the paperwork. And finally don't forget to get a signed bill of sale and the clean/junk title. If you don't get a signed bill of sale, you will have to pay taxes on the blue book value.

[csmith12]

Hmmmm... maybe your asking if you can title a bike without a title in another state and then transfer to KY. If that is what your asking, then I have no experience there. Sorry...

[ChaoSS]

I'm familiar with this kind of problem, and the short answer is that you will get better answers if you can find some sort of local forum that can help you out. Here in CA I know one way to go about it, but I know that it will be completely different in every state.


The person you are buying from, did they have a title at one point or do you just not know who the last registered owner is?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by shavelieva

Anyone ever bought a frame without a title and then successfully titled it?

No, because its a really bad idea.

Originally Posted by Jono

I have a frame with a title which I can't get titled. Haha. If I ever need to use the frame I will sand it down. Remove the vin. Get frame powdercoated and then stamp my old frames vin onto the new frame. Not legal and I wouldn't recommend it. Haha.

Jono, as long as you aren't modifying the VIN on a stolen frame or otherwise trying to defraud somebody, then its legal. In fact, if you bought a new frame from the factory, it comes blank and you have to bang your VIN on it yourself. Since you have a bill of sale, you didn't steal it, so its legal.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

No, because its a really bad idea.



Jono, as long as you aren't modifying the VIN on a stolen frame or otherwise trying to defraud somebody, then its legal. In fact, if you bought a new frame from the factory, it comes blank and you have to bang your VIN on it yourself. Since you have a bill of sale, you didn't steal it, so its legal.

I don't think it's legal to stamp another bike's vin on a different one though, unless maybe if you are just putting a new frame on, the rest of the bike is staying the same.

The DMV might be able to issue a new vin though.

[lgk]

what happens when you build a new frame from raw material?

can you apply for a new title, since you manufactured it yourself?

[shavelieva]

Varies from state to state. My state(KY) requires all new parts to be used and a receipt for each part used to apply for a vin.

I've found out through KY state law if you purchase a bike with no title then you are essentially sol

Per KRS 186.010(15)
Definition of a Motorcycle in KY
(15) "Motorcycle" means any motor driven vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the operator and designed to travel on not more than three (3) wheels in contact with the ground, including vehicles on which the operator and passengers ride in an enclosed cab. "Motorcycle" shall include an alternative-speed motorcycle as defined in this section, but shall not include a tractor or a moped as defined in this section

Per KRS 186A.072
Definition of Custom Motorcycle in KY
(1) As used in KRS 186A.115 and this section, "custom-built motorcycle" means a motorcycle as defined in KRS 186.010(15) that has been built from one hundred percent (100%) new parts to the individual specifications of:

(a) The individual who built the motorcycle who will personally use the
motorcycle;
(b) A specific known prospective owner of the motorcycle who is purchasing the motorcycle at retail; or
(c) A person engaged in the business of building and selling motorcycles who is building the motorcycle for purposes of retail sale to an unknown buyer.

(2) A person who has either personally custom-built a motorcycle or who has purchased a custom-built motorcycle shall be issued a first certificate of title after complying with the provisions of this subsection. The person shall, prior to applying for the certificate of title, apply to the Transportation Cabinet for a vehicle identification number under the provisions of KRS 186A.090. When applying for a first certificate of title for a custom-built motorcycle, the person shall apply in the office of the county clerk of the county in which he or she resides and provide the clerk with the following:

(a) Written documentation authenticating that one hundred percent (100%) of the parts used to assemble the custom-built motorcycle are new parts purchased from either a wholesale or retail supplier that have never been used;

[shavelieva]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hmmmm... maybe your asking if you can title a bike without a title in another state and then transfer to KY. If that is what your asking, then I have no experience there. Sorry...

Yup, thanks though.
I've read posts on other forums where this seems to be somewhat a common practice. States like Arizona or New Mexico(I forget which) for example have rather lax registration laws. For the most part they don't even require a visual inspection of the vehicle. There are a slew of companies who provide this type of titling service but I was wanting to ask from some active users here if anyone had any good or bad experiences with these types of companies. thanks for a ll the responses. All in all maybe this will help someone else.

I could also buy another frame with title this time and transfer the rest of my work over to it. they seem to run $250-$1k which seems to be what these titling companies are charging. So I think this is what I'll do.

[n4mwd]

@Jono tried the buy a new frame route and basically had nothing but a nightmare as a result.

Basically, its not illegal to change a VIN provided that you own both VINs and the vehicle.

But other simpler avenues might be to check into the states abandoned vehicle rules. I know that here if someone abandoned a vehicle on your property, you could follow a series of steps that included advertising in the legal section of the paper and posting notices on the vehicle for a certain amount of time, and then you could fill out a form at the DMV and the vehicle title would be issued in your name.

Also, here in FL, the tow truck people have a huge amount of power when it comes to titling vehicles. Basically, they can tow your vehicle, charge you a huge fee, and if you don't pay it, then they can auction it off with a clear title - even if you owed money on it. I really don't like those people, but if you are desperate, you might ask them and see if they can help you.