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Old January 16th, 2009, 01:42 AM   #1
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DIY Shimming the carb needles.

It seems that we are missing a DIY thread on shimming the carb needles. Why should this be done? Well, these bikes run lean from the factory to ensure the best possible fuel economy, in some cases the bikes are so lean in makes them very hard to control throttle wise in the low end. Shimming the carb needles (adding washers under the needles) will give the engine more fuel which will make the bike a lot nicer to ride, especially in the low end.

So, decided you want to shim you needles? Read on

Step 1, you will need to remove the fairings, See kkims thread DIY- Let's Get Nekkid!!! on how to do this.



Step 2, you will need to remove the gas tank, again see kkims thread DIY- How to Remove the Gas Tank on how to remove this.



Step 3. You will see the carbs right below where the gas tank was (circled in red) remove the 4 screws on the right carb cover first (this one is the easiest) I recommend unscrewing the screws that are the hardest to get to first as there will be less pressure on them to loosen (due to the other screws) and this will reduce the possibility of stripping the heads. As kkim says, ask me how I know!



Step 4, with the carb cover open, remove the needle, this can be cone with tweezers, being careful not to touch the rubber diaphram as this is very dellicate and expensive to replace. (I had to remove the carbs right out to remove a stripped screw, but for shimming, it is not needed to remove them.)



Step 5, add a washer or 2 to the needle, I originally used 4mm washers (as pictured) which were too big and the spring holding the needle down was not holding it down. and I have since gone to 3mm and these are perfect.



Step 6, put the needle back in, the spring back in and replace the carb cover being careful to ensure that the rubber diaphram is sitting in the slot for it so as it will not get pinched by the carb cover.

Step 7, repeat step 3 to 6 for the remaining carb.

Step 8, put the gas tank back on and reconnect everything, make sure that the bike will start and rev without dying then put the seat back on and take it for a short ride round the block. If you are happy with the changes, put everything back together. If you are not happy, try removing, or adding a washer and testing to find the best setting. Once you are happy, put everything back together and test ride again.
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File Type: pdf DIY Shimming the carb needles. - ninjette.org.pdf (7.67 MB, 572 views)
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Old January 16th, 2009, 02:06 AM   #2
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Thank you, sir!!

Some added pictures for clarity...

tops of the carbs that need to be accessed to get to the the needles. Again, you don't need to remove the carbs to access the needles. They were removed in this picture because these were taken when I was installing a jet kit. If you are using a #2 phillips to remove the screws, press down hard...really hard, before you apply sideways pressure to undo the screw, otherwise you stand a good chance of stripping the head out. And if you are doing this while the carbs are still in the bike, you will need a long shaft #2 screwdriver to reach the screws through the frame.




stock needle with and without 3mm washers added



album for anyone interested containing more pictures taken when I removed airbox and installed a jet kit.
http://picasaweb.google.com/kkim993/AirboxAndRejet#
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Old January 16th, 2009, 02:15 AM   #3
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No problems

Thanks for adding those pics, I didn't really have any better than what I posted.
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Old January 16th, 2009, 02:18 AM   #4
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No, David... thank you for taking the time to do the DIY. It's always great when one can help others by posting a few pics and listing their experiences. Thanks for sharing your time and effort.
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Old January 16th, 2009, 05:42 AM   #5
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You beat me to it. I was going to represent the black bike, but NO!!!!! even the green owners are faster. C'mon David, give a girl a chance!!! lol. Great job, thanks for the DIY.
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Old January 17th, 2009, 01:47 AM   #6
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl View Post
You beat me to it. I was going to represent the black bike, but NO!!!!! even the green owners are faster. C'mon David, give a girl a chance!!! lol. Great job, thanks for the DIY.
Ha ha ha, you cannot stop us greeneys Kelly was the one who suggested I do this, lol.

No worries

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Originally Posted by g21-30 View Post
I wish you ladies would stop encouraging kkim!
I don't think it is just kkim out need to worry about
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Old January 17th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #7
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You know what they say....cheat, cheat, and win. Whatever it takes!
A concept that is purely foreign to green bike owners. We win so often, we don't understand the concept of cheating to win. Tell me sir... lose so often it's become a way of life? maybe it's time to buy a green bike... or at the very least rattle can it. Then, your problems will be solved!
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Old January 17th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #8
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Great to hear about the bike running well. It's my firm belief these bikes are too lean from the factory and a simple thing like shimming will help the bike be a lot more rider friendly. A complete rejet will allow you to fine tune to your heart's (and patience's) content. Looks like you have it pretty close to ideal for your location.
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Old January 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g21-30 View Post
You better watch out. There's a reason I posted the source for the HID lights that you installed. The manufacturer installed a sensor for me. Anytime you're around a BLACK Ninja, the lights will draw 4 times the normal amperage, stopping you dead in the water (or race)!

You know what they say....cheat, cheat, and win. Whatever it takes!
Is that so? Mine has no such sensor, sounds like yours are custom built, for YOU, meaning they will have no effect on my bike

Yeah yeah, we know, you must resort to cheating to beat a green bike
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Old January 17th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #10
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oh, oh....

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Old January 18th, 2009, 01:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkim View Post
oh, oh....

So, kkim's taking his ball and going home!
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Old January 18th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #12
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So, kkim's taking his ball and going home!
actually I'm trying to share it and the other guys will have none of it. maybe if I were to paint it green??? pshhhh... you should see what I'm doing with my other ball!!!
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Old January 18th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #13
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So, kkim's taking his ball and going home!
Ha ha ha
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Old January 18th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkim View Post

....They were removed in this picture because these were taken when I was installing a jet kit....
sorry, noob question but could someone explain briefly or point me to a link as to what the difference is with shimming and installing a jet kit? is it the needle that is different?
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Old January 18th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #15
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A jet kit is a specifically designed kit that you purchase to improve the jetting in a bike. It usually contains main jets, proprietary adjustable needles and mixture screw recommendations.

Shimming is raising the stock, non adjustable needles by using small washers.

Both shimming and a jet kit are both working to improve jetting of a stock bike. Shimming is crude, effective way to optimize jetting by using what you have to achieve it. It will never be as precise or adjustable as a jet kit, but in the case of our 250Rs, it can improve an otherwise lean stock bike to be a lot more user friendly.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 11:17 PM   #16
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ah ok. thanks.
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Old January 24th, 2009, 11:15 PM   #17
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I don't suppose anyone has any idea how many washers are best? I'd hate to have to do it more than once.

Or is it a personal opinion type deal?
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Old January 25th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #18
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Each bike is different. I started with 2 washers and was happy with the results, so I left it this way. I have got the stock can (AreaP Long Quiet Carbon Fibre currently somewhere between the states and NZ on its way here ) and the snorkel removed.

Are you running a stock can (exhaust) and snorkel in the airbox still installed?
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Old January 25th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper-Byte View Post
Each bike is different. I started with 2 washers and was happy with the results, so I left it this way. I have got the stock can (AreaP Long Quiet Carbon Fibre currently somewhere between the states and NZ on its way here ) and the snorkel removed.

Are you running a stock can (exhaust) and snorkel in the airbox still installed?

I have a 15" Titanium Area P that is also in transit.....But it's only going from cali to missouri.
No rush tho......spring is still a long way off
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Old January 25th, 2009, 12:28 AM   #20
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I have a 15" Titanium Area P that is also in transit.....But it's only going from cali to missouri.
No rush tho......spring is still a long way off
Nice, great service AreaP have! Yeah, well it is the middle of Summer here and damn nice riding weather (if a little hot at times), Autumn is next. I should really take my camera when I go for rides. I found some mint scenery, park her up, take pics with nice scenery in the background
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Old January 25th, 2009, 12:32 AM   #21
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Old January 25th, 2009, 12:55 AM   #22
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*Ahem* *ahem*
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Old January 25th, 2009, 08:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper-Byte View Post
Each bike is different. I started with 2 washers and was happy with the results, so I left it this way. I have got the stock can (AreaP Long Quiet Carbon Fibre currently somewhere between the states and NZ on its way here ) and the snorkel removed.

Are you running a stock can (exhaust) and snorkel in the airbox still installed?
Mine is entirely stock. I figure 15 cents for washers is a good investment, though.
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Old January 25th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #24
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In that case, I would start with 2 washers and take out the snorkel (it is completely reversable), this will make the bike much nicer to ride, and as you said is only 15 cents.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 06:04 PM   #25
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On a scale of 1 to 10 how hard would you say this mod is? How long does it take? I am familiar with carbs on other things like dirt bikes and 4 wheelers if that makes a difference. I am thinking about doing this, just debating on if I will screw something up...
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Old February 1st, 2009, 06:17 PM   #26
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It is really very easy, as Sam said, easier then the HID DIY.

It really doesn't talk all that long, it depends on how fast you are at taking the fairings and gas tank off. Once they are off, it does not take long. (depending on how many times you change the washers)
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Old February 1st, 2009, 07:06 PM   #27
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I did this all by my lonesome, except for borrowing my hubby to help me get the tank off since I didn't want to drop it or anything, and I did that, an oil change, detailing, and lubing the chain in an afternoon, and that was with a stop to get oil and another stop for the filter... Not a bad project at all.... I'd say maybe a 5 only because it's easy to lose things like fasteners if you're not careful....
Radio Shack has a great deal on washers in this pack:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103391
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Old February 1st, 2009, 09:11 PM   #28
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Sweet thanks everyone....maybe I can get around to it sometime soon (preferably when I am almost out of gas). Maybe make it sound a little better and run smoother with the snorkle removal


Quote:
Originally Posted by g21-30 View Post
He did the HID install in 2 hrs. Shimming shouldn't take longer than 20-30 mins!
Ha ha ha sorry, heaven forbid something go as smooth as that did for me. I've just worked on motorcycles all my life as well as cars (although my life isn't that long as I am only 19) but its just something I have always done and have become pretty familiar with how everything works. Not to mention the DIY Pix help wonders as I am a visual learner. Ha ha that is funny though, I can probably bust it on in 20-30 in complete darkness with hurricane like winds
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 12:49 AM   #29
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gonna be doing this mod this week. i have one main concern...

when you put the washers on the needle and you go to drop the needle into the vacuum piston, how do you keep the washers from falling off the needle?

thanks.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 12:52 AM   #30
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You can hold the washers and the needle, drop the needle tip into the hole and then just let it down, they won't fall off it the needle is in the hole.

Or you can take the rubber diaphrams off, by poking your finger in the hole where the needle goes, and lift up, that is what I have done.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 01:08 AM   #31
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thanks. i was lightly considering using a weak glue and glueing the washers to the needle, but i won't now.

seems easy enough.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 01:13 AM   #32
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OK, I don't see a need to use glue myself. It is really is easy. I found that the biggest part is the thought of tearing into the engine, but if you take your time and note what you do, it is so easy.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 01:43 AM   #33
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you can just use a dab of grease to stick the washers to the needle.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 10:14 AM   #34
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^^Yes I could but as a poor college student the 3 cents for some washers is better then having to buy a jet kit I plan on doing this sometime with in the next few weeks, I will take a stop watch out and let ya know what the new record time will be jk
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 03:33 PM   #35
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Gary - I just used a dab of Vaseline each time I've done it or helped someone, no problems so far!
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:13 AM   #36
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kim, thanks for the link about radio shack having the assortment bag of washers. home depot didn't have any and then i remembered your post. now i can put 10 washers on each needle if i need to

thanks kelly and kim about the grease and vaseline tip. i don't have any vaseline, but i got some grease. will try that out if i am having problems.

as always, i appreciate the help.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 10:10 AM   #37
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Home Depot and Lowes doesn't have them?
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 10:17 AM   #38
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i didn't check lowe's because it was further away and it was getting late, but home depot didn't. the smallest i saw were #6 washers. maybe they had it and i just didn't see it.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g21-30 View Post
Radio Shack...in the small parts area. It will take you longer to find them, than to install them!
that's what i like to hear! that really helps my confidence.

yeah, i picked up the washers at radio shack last night. a friend is going to help me remove the gas tank tonight and hopefully if it doesn't get dark too fast, i will shim the needles and maybe put it back together.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:35 PM   #40
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you could easily remove the tank yourself.... it's not that heavy. Just be sure to have a blanket to put it down on and a piece of 2x4 to keep the tank from resting on the fuel petcock.

go for it... you'll most likely be done by the time your friend shows up.
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