Anyone familiar with the Ninja 650?

MR2Aaron · January 22nd, 2014, 08:48 PM

I can't seem to find a dedicated Ninja 650 forum, and you guys are pretty friendly, so I'm asking here.

I've happened upon, at a local dealer, a 2006 Ninja 650. I stopped by to take a look at it after work today, and I feel sort of unsure about it. There's a lot about it that I do like, but I also wasn't totally in love with it. Dollar-wise, I think my cost would be about $1000 - $1200, selling my 500, and buying the 650, also including a few bucks for fixing a couple things.

Re: the 650, I see the good as:
* This is a modern bike; it has much better brakes, fuel injection and so forth...

* Apparently better suspension, which, after the fuel injection, is the biggest selling point, to me. The 500's suspension kind of scares me. It's both softly sprung and underdamped, and I'm told that's normal. I'm also told that the options for fixing this are either really kludgey or outrageously expensive. Basically, I'd easily spend $1200 making it more to my liking, but then I'd still be missing out on all these other nice things like fuel injection.

* They still make these, meaning there's a better selection of aftermarket parts for fixing the things I don't like. There are precious few options for the 500.

* The 650 makes a lot more power, not that I'm overly concerned about this.

* Slightly better fuel economy?

* It looks cooler than the 500 does, although I'll admit I think the 500 is handsome too.

As I see it, the bad is:
* This particular one has 27K miles on it. That's higher than you usually see on motorcycles like this, but my gut tells me that most of that was probably put on it by the original owner, who cared for it reasonably well. I suspect it's had at least two owners. Notably, it's very quiet. No ticking or chattering or rough running to suggest major problems with the engine. The oil looked clean.

* It's been subjected to a low-speed low-side crash at least once on each side. The handlebars and rear brake pedal are both slightly bent inward, in exactly the same manner as I experienced myself once. Also, the left side fairing has some scrapes on it that suggest a "dropped it while maneuvering into a parking space" kind of affair. Except for the fairing, used replacements for the damaged parts appear to be available for less than $100 total, or maybe $150 or so if I bought them new. A used replacement fairing looks like it could be had for another $100 or so, also per eBay.

* The biggest con is that the handlebars seem too high, to me. The 500 has a noticeably more aggressive riding position, which I like. This might could be addressed with different handlebars, which I'd be replacing anyway.

* The shifter throw seemed a little long, which I wasn't in love with.

Have any of you guys owned one of these and care to weigh in?

Fake edit, wow, that got long. Cliffs:
Looked at a Ninja 650. It's better than my current bike in some very appealing ways
It's not perfect, but it's fairly cheap, and I enjoy fixing things. I don't see any insurmountable mechanical issues.
Doesn't feel quite as sporty, but I think this could be adjusted by replacing parts that need replacing anyway.
Should I?

old3 · January 22nd, 2014, 09:00 PM

I had the 06 500 as a commuter and kid loaner for a few years. The 650 is far and away more advanced, smoother and pretty much better all around, except it might feel a lil heavier.

The Ninja 300 is also better in most ways. Down on power slightly but the fueling more than makes up for it. Rather than going Buuuuuuwaaaaaa, it just goes. Throttle response is very, very good. Everything else about the 300, unfortunately, is as shoddy as the 500 except it feels lighter and more nimble.

It's just me maybe but I'd avoid a 27k mile bike. That makes it look too good, I'll correct it so you really get a look at it, 27,000 miles!!!

Twenty Seven THOUSAND Miles!!!

Too many available with nearly no miles on them that you can get cheap. I prefer to buy new unless I know the owner and watched or did the work on the bike myself.

Jono · January 22nd, 2014, 09:30 PM

My friend got an 09 Ninja 650 last year for $2000. It was a steal. It had been down at least once but there was no major damage. I think it had a little over 5k miles on it. He also hated the high handlebars and the front end feel so he swapped on a 04 ZX6r front end on it. It is such a simple swap. Everything matches up perfectly. I believe this would work for the 06 Ninja 650 as well. Look into that if you want a more aggressive riding position and modern front suspension.

Me personally, i think the ninja 650's are weird looking and would never ride one. I mean just look at the rearsets. Too funky for me. Haha.

dcj13 · January 22nd, 2014, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old3

...I prefer to buy [bikes] new unless I know the owner and watched or did the work on the bike myself.

Like the old saying: Get your motorcycles new, your cars used, and your women experinced.

For a water-cooled bike, is 27k miles really that big a deal? In the BMW world, 100k miles isn't all that much if the bike has been well-maintained. I had no problem buying my first-gen ninjette with 24k on the clock: it still looks like new. I believe the Kwaks are built every bit as well as the Beemers. I wouldn't worry about it.

MR2Aaron · January 22nd, 2014, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcj13

Like the old saying: Get your motorcycles new, your cars used, and your women experinced.

For a water-cooled bike, is 27k miles really that big a deal? In the BMW world, 100k miles isn't all that much if the bike has been well-maintained. I had no problem buying my first-gen ninjette with 24k on the clock: it still looks like new. I believe the Kwaks are built every bit as well as the Beemers. I wouldn't worry about it.

Kinda how I feel about it. 27K is unusually high for a motorcycle, but if you work it out, that's only 3500 miles a year, meaning it probably got used regularly, vs. sitting unused for several years.

For my part, though, I'd never buy a new motorcycle. Too many used ones available for less than half the cost. Also, I enjoy turning wrenches anyway. I sold my sportscar because I'd fixed all the problems and got bored just driving it to work every day.

dcj13 · January 22nd, 2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

...For my part, though, I'd never buy a new motorcycle. Too many used ones available for less than half the cost. Also, I enjoy turning wrenches anyway. I sold my sportscar because I'd fixed all the problems and got bored just driving it to work every day.

Me either. All three of my bikes were used. And never bought a new car. Or house.

Have I got a car for you! My folks bought the '75 TR6 new: I've owned the damned thing since late '82. PITA but kind of fun.

massacremasses · January 23rd, 2014, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

Kinda how I feel about it. 27K is unusually high for a motorcycle, but if you work it out, that's only 3500 miles a year, meaning it probably got used regularly, vs. sitting unused for several years.

For my part, though, I'd never buy a new motorcycle. Too many used ones available for less than half the cost. Also, I enjoy turning wrenches anyway. I sold my sportscar because I'd fixed all the problems and got bored just driving it to work every day.

I wouldnt worry about millage.

Just sold my ZX6R with 48k on it. Still purred like a kitten...

actually growled like a lion...

csmith12 · January 23rd, 2014, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

I sold my sportscar because I'd fixed all the problems and got bored just driving it to work every day.

This sounds like a first world problem meme.

lol I wish I had your problem Aaron but I would need at least 6 more hours added onto each day.

MR2Aaron · January 23rd, 2014, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

This sounds like a first world problem meme.

lol I wish I had your problem Aaron but I would need at least 6 more hours added onto each day.

I make no apologies. My girlfriend is a Greek mythology nut, and she thinks I may secretly be Hephaestus.

Further investigation this morning shows a TON of handlebar options for the 650. For instance, this looks like it'd be perfect. A little pricy, though.
http://www.motospecialties.com/store...ItemNum=sb1blk

Can anyone comment on the shifter throw issue? The throw is longer and less positive than my 500's. My 250's was longer too, but not this long. If I go back and look at it,

Chicagobob · January 23rd, 2014, 08:43 AM

There's a 650 forum on riderforums.com. It's a pretty good bike, very narrow, good power, good handling and brakes, lots of used parts and aftermarket support available.

Weighs about 450lb wet. Suspension is the usual cheap OEM stuff, but can be upgraded (but a new rear shock is expensive). On a 27K bike, you could improve it a lot with a low mileage OEM shock from eBay, or a Versys shock.

The 09-11 models have some nice improvements, such as rubber-insulated bars, updated styling and upgraded tuning.

The solution to the high bars is a set of drag bars or, better yet, Sport Bars (Pic below - my 2009 ER6n). These cost $160 new, and have different bolt patterns for different model year 650s:

I recently started thinking (from browsing the Bike Shed) that the 06-08 650r makes a nice cafe racer. This would be a good way to shave 30-40 lbs off, if you are so inclined (if only to get rid of those giant peg brackets). Check it out at http://thebikeshed.cc/2013/10/20/kus...search-ninja/:

Anyhow, there are a ton of used 650s out there, so take your time and shop around.

oblivion007 · January 23rd, 2014, 08:58 AM

I got a 09 ER6n and I like it. But I got to say that I feel as if the suspension is pretty shoddy but it just might be my square tire telling me that. I got the sports bar and coming from the 250 I find myself putting too much weight on the bars. Besides that I think its a good bike but its stupid loud >_<

Bought it used for $3300 with sports bars and some fancy exhaust 7k miles never dropped. So I think keep that in mind with the pricing of what you're getting.

I personally feel that the 250 is better suspension wise and handles small perturbations on the road better than the 650.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagobob

Suspension is the usual cheap OEM stuff, but can be upgraded (but a new rear shock is expensive). On a 27K bike, you could improve it a lot with a low mileage OEM shock from eBay, or a Versys shock.

Don't mean to hijack your thread Aaron but could you elaborate on the rear suspension upgrade Bob?

JohnnyBravo · January 23rd, 2014, 09:02 AM

I'm familiar with the fact the shock on the outside looks so durn ugly to me personally.

MR2Aaron · January 23rd, 2014, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

I'm familiar with the fact the shock on the outside looks so durn ugly to me personally.

Really? I think it looks kinda cool.

JohnnyBravo · January 23rd, 2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

Really? I think it looks kinda cool.

Haha yea really, Different strokes for different folks you know!

rasta · January 23rd, 2014, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcj13

and your women experinced..

False.. cradle robbing FTW

InvisiBill · January 23rd, 2014, 02:26 PM

A number of guys at EX-500.com have upgraded to the 650 and really like it. It's apparently still a fairly small, nimble bike like the 500, but with some more power and some modernization.

As far as the suspension, the 650 still comes pretty wonky. The stock fork springs are 1.2kg/mm (good for a 325lb rider) and the rear spring is 17kg/mm (good for a 130lb) rider. I'm not sure Kawasaki knows how to calculate spring rates...

Just getting springs with a rate to match your weight will make the 500 way better (the stock rear is good for about 135lb, and the front needs to be about 33% stiffer just to match that). You can get Sonic fork springs for $80 or RaceTechs for a little more. Depending on your weight, the EX250 can make an excellent donor for the rear (see Budget respring for average-sized riders and Great budget shock for bigger riders). If you want to go a little fancier, you can also add Emulators or Intiminators to the old-fashioned damper rod forks. If you're looking for the very best, a Penske seems to be the way to go, but a few hundred bucks will get you a dramatic improvement over stock. They may not be the fanciest solutions, but I don't consider them to be excessively kludgey either (I'm guessing you're referring to the SV shock and cutting the fork springs).

I'm sure the 650 is an upgrade in a number of ways, and I'd consider one myself. However, I think you'll still want to tweak it a bit, and I think you can also make your current 500 quite a bit better with a little tweaking.

Motofool · January 23rd, 2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

................. 27K is unusually high for a motorcycle, but if you work it out, that's only 3500 miles a year, meaning it probably got used regularly, vs. sitting unused for several years..............

I disagree with the concept of high mileage.

My brother owns and regularly rides a MZ two-stroke bike manufactured in 1964.

My pre-gen 250 has 25K and it feels and work as good as new, being all the parts original.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=82

Some pre-gen's have reached 100K miles.

I would say it is all in the care and type of use.

All the reviews I have read about the Versys and the 650 have been positive.

Sirref · January 23rd, 2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblivion007

I personally feel that the 250 is better suspension wise and handles small perturbations on the road better than the 650.

would you say that swapping the suspension out for supersport suspension would make the 650 handle like the 250/300 or is it just too heavy and needs to go on a diet. It seems like a great all around bike like the sv650 and those get raced all the time with gsxr suspension/brake conversions.

oblivion007 · January 23rd, 2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

would you say that swapping the suspension out for supersport suspension would make the 650 handle like the 250/300 or is it just too heavy and needs to go on a diet. It seems like a great all around bike like the sv650 and those get raced all the time with gsxr suspension/brake conversions.

Don't know... never tried a suspension swap or had the chance to try out fancy suspensions. All I can say is when in a corner, depending on road conditions feels as if its skipping a lot more than the 250 would. But again it might be my squared tired making me feel that. Highway commute and no corners ya know...

hirubhaiambani · January 23rd, 2014, 04:48 PM

I was looking to buy a 650 as my first bike, but went with the 250. During my search, I found this website with loads of info on the 650r
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~shanetp/Index.html

Some of the 2006 year bikes had some issue with a cracked frame (i think near the engine mount - not 100% sure). Check the bike for the same. The issue is covered on the above mentioned website.

hirubhaiambani · January 23rd, 2014, 04:49 PM

Cracked frame issue:
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~sh...tml#Question_5

Chicagobob · January 24th, 2014, 09:49 AM

Don't mean to hijack your thread Aaron but could you elaborate on the rear suspension upgrade Bob?[/QUOTE]

I meant that, at 27,000 miles, the shock will be worn, so a newer one (off a low-mileage bike - many available on eBay) will be a noticeable improvement. Also, many 650r owners switch to a Versys shock, which I think is a little longer.

January 22nd, 2014, 08:48 PM	#1
MR2Aaron ninjette.org member Name: Aaron Location: Pflugerville, TX Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 154	Anyone familiar with the Ninja 650? I can't seem to find a dedicated Ninja 650 forum, and you guys are pretty friendly, so I'm asking here. I've happened upon, at a local dealer, a 2006 Ninja 650. I stopped by to take a look at it after work today, and I feel sort of unsure about it. There's a lot about it that I do like, but I also wasn't totally in love with it. Dollar-wise, I think my cost would be about $1000 - $1200, selling my 500, and buying the 650, also including a few bucks for fixing a couple things. Re: the 650, I see the good as: * This is a modern bike; it has much better brakes, fuel injection and so forth... * Apparently better suspension, which, after the fuel injection, is the biggest selling point, to me. The 500's suspension kind of scares me. It's both softly sprung and underdamped, and I'm told that's normal. I'm also told that the options for fixing this are either really kludgey or outrageously expensive. Basically, I'd easily spend $1200 making it more to my liking, but then I'd still be missing out on all these other nice things like fuel injection. * They still make these, meaning there's a better selection of aftermarket parts for fixing the things I don't like. There are precious few options for the 500. * The 650 makes a lot more power, not that I'm overly concerned about this. * Slightly better fuel economy? * It looks cooler than the 500 does, although I'll admit I think the 500 is handsome too. As I see it, the bad is: * This particular one has 27K miles on it. That's higher than you usually see on motorcycles like this, but my gut tells me that most of that was probably put on it by the original owner, who cared for it reasonably well. I suspect it's had at least two owners. Notably, it's very quiet. No ticking or chattering or rough running to suggest major problems with the engine. The oil looked clean. * It's been subjected to a low-speed low-side crash at least once on each side. The handlebars and rear brake pedal are both slightly bent inward, in exactly the same manner as I experienced myself once. Also, the left side fairing has some scrapes on it that suggest a "dropped it while maneuvering into a parking space" kind of affair. Except for the fairing, used replacements for the damaged parts appear to be available for less than $100 total, or maybe $150 or so if I bought them new. A used replacement fairing looks like it could be had for another $100 or so, also per eBay. * The biggest con is that the handlebars seem too high, to me. The 500 has a noticeably more aggressive riding position, which I like. This might could be addressed with different handlebars, which I'd be replacing anyway. * The shifter throw seemed a little long, which I wasn't in love with. Have any of you guys owned one of these and care to weigh in? Fake edit, wow, that got long. Cliffs: Looked at a Ninja 650. It's better than my current bike in some very appealing ways It's not perfect, but it's fairly cheap, and I enjoy fixing things. I don't see any insurmountable mechanical issues. Doesn't feel quite as sporty, but I think this could be adjusted by replacing parts that need replacing anyway. Should I?

January 22nd, 2014, 09:00 PM	#2
old3 ninjette.org sage Name: Jim Location: NJ Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, KTM EXC610SMR Posts: 913	I had the 06 500 as a commuter and kid loaner for a few years. The 650 is far and away more advanced, smoother and pretty much better all around, except it might feel a lil heavier. The Ninja 300 is also better in most ways. Down on power slightly but the fueling more than makes up for it. Rather than going Buuuuuuwaaaaaa, it just goes. Throttle response is very, very good. Everything else about the 300, unfortunately, is as shoddy as the 500 except it feels lighter and more nimble. It's just me maybe but I'd avoid a 27k mile bike. That makes it look too good, I'll correct it so you really get a look at it, 27,000 miles!!! Twenty Seven THOUSAND Miles!!! Too many available with nearly no miles on them that you can get cheap. I prefer to buy new unless I know the owner and watched or did the work on the bike myself.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

January 23rd, 2014, 08:43 AM	#10
Chicagobob ninjette.org guru Name: Bob Location: Chicago Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B Posts: 315	There's a 650 forum on riderforums.com. It's a pretty good bike, very narrow, good power, good handling and brakes, lots of used parts and aftermarket support available. Weighs about 450lb wet. Suspension is the usual cheap OEM stuff, but can be upgraded (but a new rear shock is expensive). On a 27K bike, you could improve it a lot with a low mileage OEM shock from eBay, or a Versys shock. The 09-11 models have some nice improvements, such as rubber-insulated bars, updated styling and upgraded tuning. The solution to the high bars is a set of drag bars or, better yet, Sport Bars (Pic below - my 2009 ER6n). These cost $160 new, and have different bolt patterns for different model year 650s: I recently started thinking (from browsing the Bike Shed) that the 06-08 650r makes a nice cafe racer. This would be a good way to shave 30-40 lbs off, if you are so inclined (if only to get rid of those giant peg brackets). Check it out at http://thebikeshed.cc/2013/10/20/kus...search-ninja/: Anyhow, there are a ton of used 650s out there, so take your time and shop around. Last futzed with by Chicagobob; January 24th, 2014 at 09:46 AM.

January 23rd, 2014, 09:02 AM	#12
JohnnyBravo Certifiable nontundrum Name: Harper Location: NC Milkshake stand Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much. MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16	I'm familiar with the fact the shock on the outside looks so durn ugly to me personally. __________________________________________________
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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January 22nd, 2014, 09:30 PM	#3
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	My friend got an 09 Ninja 650 last year for $2000. It was a steal. It had been down at least once but there was no major damage. I think it had a little over 5k miles on it. He also hated the high handlebars and the front end feel so he swapped on a 04 ZX6r front end on it. It is such a simple swap. Everything matches up perfectly. I believe this would work for the 06 Ninja 650 as well. Look into that if you want a more aggressive riding position and modern front suspension. Me personally, i think the ninja 650's are weird looking and would never ride one. I mean just look at the rearsets. Too funky for me. Haha.

January 23rd, 2014, 02:26 PM	#16
InvisiBill EX500 full of EX250 parts Name: Bill Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Aug '15	A number of guys at EX-500.com have upgraded to the 650 and really like it. It's apparently still a fairly small, nimble bike like the 500, but with some more power and some modernization. As far as the suspension, the 650 still comes pretty wonky. The stock fork springs are 1.2kg/mm (good for a 325lb rider) and the rear spring is 17kg/mm (good for a 130lb) rider. I'm not sure Kawasaki knows how to calculate spring rates... Just getting springs with a rate to match your weight will make the 500 way better (the stock rear is good for about 135lb, and the front needs to be about 33% stiffer just to match that). You can get Sonic fork springs for $80 or RaceTechs for a little more. Depending on your weight, the EX250 can make an excellent donor for the rear (see Budget respring for average-sized riders and Great budget shock for bigger riders). If you want to go a little fancier, you can also add Emulators or Intiminators to the old-fashioned damper rod forks. If you're looking for the very best, a Penske seems to be the way to go, but a few hundred bucks will get you a dramatic improvement over stock. They may not be the fanciest solutions, but I don't consider them to be excessively kludgey either (I'm guessing you're referring to the SV shock and cutting the fork springs). I'm sure the 650 is an upgrade in a number of ways, and I'd consider one myself. However, I think you'll still want to tweak it a bit, and I think you can also make your current 500 quite a bit better with a little tweaking.

January 23rd, 2014, 04:48 PM	#20
hirubhaiambani Ninjette Fanboy Name: HB Location: Missouri Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja250 Posts: 307	I was looking to buy a 650 as my first bike, but went with the 250. During my search, I found this website with loads of info on the 650r http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~shanetp/Index.html Some of the 2006 year bikes had some issue with a cracked frame (i think near the engine mount - not 100% sure). Check the bike for the same. The issue is covered on the above mentioned website.

January 23rd, 2014, 04:49 PM	#21
hirubhaiambani Ninjette Fanboy Name: HB Location: Missouri Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja250 Posts: 307	Cracked frame issue: http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~sh...tml#Question_5

January 24th, 2014, 09:49 AM	#22
Chicagobob ninjette.org guru Name: Bob Location: Chicago Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B Posts: 315	Don't mean to hijack your thread Aaron but could you elaborate on the rear suspension upgrade Bob?[/QUOTE] I meant that, at 27,000 miles, the shock will be worn, so a newer one (off a low-mileage bike - many available on eBay) will be a noticeable improvement. Also, many 650r owners switch to a Versys shock, which I think is a little longer.