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Old July 11th, 2016, 09:56 PM   #1
NevadaWolf
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Parking lot drills

Signed up for an Advanced Riders Course offered by our local motor cops so decided to take both bikes out for some drills.

Here's a summary of my hour long pattern today.

Link to original page on YouTube.




Anyone else doing drills? What patterns are you doing?

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Old July 12th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #2
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http://amgrass.com/forum/course-maps/

http://amgrass.com/forum/practice-practice-practice/

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=194&Set=

1) Rear brake increases lean and tightens turn / Keep throttle slightly open (best/steady control with two fingers on front brake lever), so engine is slightly fighting brake / The less clutch the best, but it is your safety net if engine stat surging/coughing.

2) Throttle reduces lean and opens the turn.

3) Lean your body opposite to the bike: better steering geometry to achieve tighter turns.
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Old July 13th, 2016, 05:14 AM   #3
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Thanks for posting the vid. I'm going to try those bike control routines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
1) Rear brake increases lean and tightens turn / Keep throttle slightly open (best/steady control with two fingers on front brake lever), so engine is slightly fighting brake / The less clutch the best, but it is your safety net if engine stat surging/coughing.

2) Throttle reduces lean and opens the turn.
I tend to control my bike at very low speed with:
* rear brake on
* 1st gear
* revs up at a constant 4k
* clutch very slightly disengaged

I then adjust speed using the rear brake.

Unfortunately I can't easily use my throttle to moderate my speed at low speed. The throttle on my bike is really jerky and imprecise and has been for a while now. I've given up on trying to get it restored to how it was when the bike was almost new. I just have to do things a bit differently.
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Old July 13th, 2016, 09:12 AM   #4
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Thanks for the tips, @Motofool! (sadly, amgrass is blocked at work - phooey!)

I'd read/heard that the rear brake was the best for these slow speed rides, but when I tried it on both the Honda and the Ninja, it felt ... weird? Almost like my foot didn't want to cooperate and do anything with the brake. I do use the rear brake regularly, both for slowing to a stop at intersections and in sync with the front brake for slowing and stabilizing in corners. But in the parking lot, not sure what happened. I'll add it in again and see if I can keep a steady fluid movement.

I've been using the throttle and clutch to modulate my speed (as can be heard) with limited brake use - mostly when I get going too quick on the straight before the turn.

Here's the work I did on the Honda. While I've found it's easier to move to counter balance on the Ninja, on the Honda once I have moved slightly off center, it's more stable.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 13th, 2016, 09:47 AM   #5
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Awesome Teri!

There are two main ways to do slow speed stuff.

1. Drag the rear brake, hold the throttle steady and use the clutch to control speed
2. Drag the rear brake, hold the clutch steady in the friction zone and use the throttle to control speed

I fall in group #2.

Once riders figure out which they are, things start to fall into place with a bit practice and full lock to lock turns start to get real simple.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 05:53 AM   #6
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#2 here as well.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #7
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I'm going to have to have someone walk me through the advice so far. I tried dragging the rear brake and the bike was incredibly unstable. I kept ending up putting my foot down on both left and right turns.

Also tried holding either the clutch or throttle steady. Definitely going to end up being a throttle steady rider. Holding the clutch steady torqued my wrist too much trying to find the sweet spot.

However going back to feet on pegs and feathering the clutch and throttle got me able to move back and forth and really counter balance as I got down to 1.5 parking space wide turns.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 07:13 PM   #8
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When I'm doing super slow stuff, slower than walking, on the KLR and tenere, I actually stand up on the pegs, while slipping the clutch and dragging the rear brake.

I have people looking at me funny never stopping at a red light lol
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Old July 15th, 2016, 06:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verboten1 View Post
I have people looking at me funny never stopping at a red light lol
For me that's part of the fun of riding I can let my inner weirdo out.
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Old July 16th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #10
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaWolf View Post
I'm going to have to have someone walk me through the advice so far. I tried dragging the rear brake and the bike was incredibly unstable. I kept ending up putting my foot down on both left and right turns.

Also tried holding either the clutch or throttle steady. Definitely going to end up being a throttle steady rider. Holding the clutch steady torqued my wrist too much trying to find the sweet spot.

However going back to feet on pegs and feathering the clutch and throttle got me able to move back and forth and really counter balance as I got down to 1.5 parking space wide turns.
If the rear brake does not work for you, then modulate the speed with the clutch, trying to keep the throttle open in a steady manner.

The idea is to concentrate in one control only, while you dramatically turn your head, look far, relax your arms and sense balance with your body.

The reason to use the rear brake as only modulating control is that the foot is independent from steering, which can mess the finesse of throttle and clutch control inputs.
Also because it has the braking effect that clutch and throtle combination lacks.
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Old July 16th, 2016, 05:09 PM   #11
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I just got off the Advanced Riders Course who noted that many of the super fast motorcops are not using their rear brake and offered advice on using the clutch, throttle, and front brake smoothly. I went through the course working just the clutch and throttle and that got me through their course easily. Only problems I had was when I tried turning super tight (<16') and lost momentum while not counter balancing enough. My failure for trying something far more extreme than any of the other riders. Once I opened up my turn to 18'-20' then everything worked smoothly and made the patterns simple.

Since I'm not going for speed, only smoothness and being able to maneuver around traffic, I'll keep practicing what has worked for me and continue taking courses.
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Old July 17th, 2016, 04:10 AM   #12
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So now do we get a video of your skills after the course?
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Old July 17th, 2016, 03:36 PM   #13
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Eventually. bur first how about a video on the course?

Link to original page on YouTube.

BTW The other students had already taken the Advanced course last year. They were under the impression this was a road riding course vs a cone course. So Deputy Trotter blended the cone course for me and added in more road riding for the other 8 students.

Next month will be another course and they invited me back so I could get the actual training I signed up for yesterday.

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Old July 17th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #14
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Your head turn to the right is not as strong as to the left, but I am sure you know that.
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Old July 17th, 2016, 03:55 PM   #15
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No I didn't. Thought it was about the same.

Stupid question, sure it isn't a trick of the camera placement?
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Old July 17th, 2016, 04:12 PM   #16
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I am sure... I also have my cam on the left side, so I know what I am looking for already.
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Old July 17th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #17
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Ah OK. So, nope, didn't know that.
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Old July 17th, 2016, 06:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaWolf View Post
Eventually. bur first how about a video on the course?

Link to original page on YouTube.

BTW The other students had already taken the Advanced course last year. They were under the impression this was a road riding course vs a cone course. So Deputy Trotter blended the cone course for me and added in more road riding for the other 8 students.

Next month will be another course and they invited me back so I could get the actual training I signed up for yesterday.

Very cool course.

One of the training companies around here that is run by a retired motor officer has a similar course. They also will rent you a Harley police bike (or a Street 500 with crash bars) for the course so you don't worry about dropping your bike.
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Old July 24th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #19
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While I was out practicing on the super secret motor cop course (as in, the course they actually use to practice competition level patterns), one of the retired officers swung by to also practice. He was kind enough to show me a few more of the patterns, explain the purpose behind some of them, and film me going through a series of tight circles.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 31st, 2016, 06:34 PM   #20
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Spinny spinny spinny, but this time I have cones!

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 31st, 2016, 06:55 PM   #21
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About how fast are you going? 1st or 2nd gear?
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Old July 31st, 2016, 08:41 PM   #22
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The correct info (after a half dozen laps to check) is first gear, between 7-10mph.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 02:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaWolf View Post
The correct info (after a half dozen laps to check) is first gear, between 7-10mph.
Thank you.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 08:22 AM   #24
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All those tire marks are from you drifting through the turns?
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Old August 1st, 2016, 08:33 AM   #25
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hahahahaha, no, thankfully. My tires would be dead if that was me!

Some are the tracks from motorcycles - you can clearly see it's a single track vehicle. Others are (per a nurse at the senior home behind the wall) cars back there doing donuts and burnouts.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 09:49 AM   #26
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My youngest boy and I were just out last night doing some drills.

He just got his first bike, a 2009 Ninja 500, and completed the MSF course about a month ago. I wanted to see what they taught him and how he's doing. I was on my 2006 SV650n.

We did some warm-up maneuvering, tight circles, full lock. Not something i do too often, but good to practice. Then we got into some hard braking, eventually up to about 40 mph. Made a few adjustments to the levers to get more travel, and he eventually got some good hard stops right on the edge. I was doing all of it also. Kinda fun, and I improved as well.

Overall he's doing pretty well (he's ridden on the dirt since he was about 4). I've taken him out on a few rides where I lead and he follows, then we discuss the ride and any issues when we get back.

Worked well for my other boy, who has been riding on the street for almost 4 years now.
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