Track day!!!

[coondog]

I went out on a track last week with my 250 and returned the following day with my 500. Growing up with the previous owners family and knowing all the off-duty State Police Security guys got me "special access" for "keep it to just one loop around the track now Dawg."

I'm just wondering what they do at these tracks when it's a "track day" I see posted on this board. Do they close the track to all other bikes? Do they give you certain hours where you're allowed to use the track? Do you have to rent the track for the day? What is the process for being able to take a 4-stroke 250 onto a race track? I am assumimg you want to "race" other 250's and need to know how to accomplish this.

[jstrain]

A typical trackday consists of an organization (NESBA, STT, etc) renting the track entirely. That org's members pay to show up and race that day. Typically the organization has everybody divided into Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner groups. Each group gets 20 minutes of each hour to go out and race.

How many people are in each group depends on the track and / or organization's policies, how popular it is, weather, etc.

[csmith12]

Here is the process at a glance.

1. A larger organization or club reserves the track for the day/weekend/week, whatever their event is.
2. They open the event up to the public or group members
3. You reserve your access to the track for that event/day (buy a track day pass, normally sold by the day)
4. You ride your day/weekend or event (race) and go home

In a nutshell, you are there to run laps on the track (practice skills, lines ect.. ect...), your there for a race or your there for both.

You will normally share the track with others bikes and normally in a skill group of your choice, unless directed to another group by a riding coach/control rider. A track day is not the same as race day. Go out there and have some fun, but most will still tell you to ride at around 80% so you can learn.

[csmith12]

Also, don't expect there to be alot of other 250 riders on your track day. Sure there can be a few, most will be on 600cc+ machines. Like I said, a track day is not the same as a race day. So you will be mixing it up with other riders on bigger bikes.

[jstrain]

Chris is right. If you do go out, expect to get dusted on the straights. I've done a couple days on the 250 and didn't feel uncomfortable. Just be prepared once the track opens up to get passed by everyone else on something bigger.

[coondog]

Chris and Jeremy, this was my concern; the mixing of half-litre race bikes being in the mix. However if it's a "race" track day you'll be classified (which I didn't think of and is great) and also be racing against 250's only. Is this correct? The thing is I noticed big differences just going around once on a 250 and then a 500, no way I'm mixing it up with real race bikes or larger class race bikes simultaneously. Like with the 250 I felt (alone) like I couldv'e brought my electric razor and shaved on the large straight, but if there were a trackful of 250's no way jose, a race is breaking out and everyone knows it before hitting their throttle for the first time. And it will be a blast even trailing the herd; equal footing, more so classed, all the same cc rides, and you learn from as good as or better riders. Is this what a "race" track day would be? (I hope)

[Alex]

/moved to Ninjettes at Speed area

[coondog]

Now no one will see or hear or answer me, at least til my beard grows back in. Where am I, is this a black hole of the site area? You could have at least answered my last question my mellow.

[csmith12]

Don't worry about mixing it up with bigger bikes for just a track day. You will do fine. It's about riding skill in the corners anyway. It's just a fact smaller bikes get passed on the straights.

Here is a short snip of what you could expect depending on your riding skills.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Guys with more races will chime in here soon but it's been my experience that you need to dive into the rules/regulations of the race(s) you will be running. Some allow any bike, and size with any modifications. Others are "class" specific and have many rules about cc's and mods allowed on the bike.

My last track day, I could have raced in the "sportsman" league race. I would have been 1 of 2 250's in the race. Everyone else was on 600's 750's and 6 or so 1000's. Needless to say, I would have only gotten race practice when up against that kind of competition with good riders.

Here is the flow of my last track/race day.

1. Pit setup and Tech
2. Lap Sessions 1-3 15min each
3. 12:00pm Sportsman race (I came in 11th of 16)
4. Lap Sessions 5-6 15min each
5. 4:00pm Sportsman race (did not compete)
6. 4:30pm Lap Sessions 7-8 15mins each

[csmith12]

EDIT: Fixed embed video above.

[jstrain]

I'm not the most experienced track day guy, but I'm not aware of any organizations that group you by bike type or displacement. It's all just skill level.

Like Chris said, you'll definitely get passed. The whole point of a track day isn't racing or competition. It's all about competing with yourself. Working to get improve your skills in an environment designed to allow you to push limits in a safer manner than the streets.

[jstrain]

If I wasn't clear, my posts are talking just about a basic track day, not racing.

[alex.s]

careful coondog, you're about to get addicted to a very expensive hobby

[Alex]

Originally Posted by coondog

Now no one will see or hear or answer me, at least til my beard grows back in. Where am I, is this a black hole of the site area? You could have at least answered my last question my mellow.

Trackday and racing discussions belong in the, you guessed it, trackday and racing area. Don't worry, this area gets plenty of traffic, and pops up in the "unread posts" link just anywhere else.

[Jinx250]

Don't worry about "racing" because you'll have to do a LOT of track days before you can do any of that at a legit track. Based on your questions, one can only assume you've never done a track day, which would put you in hte C group if you were at my track. This is hte beginner group, and has all different kinds of bikes. Sure, you'll get passed on the straights, but it's fun keeping up with these bigger bikes in the turns. Hell, at the right track, you could actually pull off some passes of your own. The point of a track day is not to race, but to have a blast, going fast and hanging it out there with none of the "real world" consequences like oncoming traffic, debris in the road, and the local PD dishing out speeding tickets.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

debris in the road

well unless you count gopro cameras.........

[Havok]

Get the race part out of your head. For a normal track day you should go into it with the mindset of learning and having fun. There are no trophies given out. When on the track for a track day it's best to forget your ego. The only person you need to prove anything to is yourself.

The way it works or at least the way it worked for the ones I have gone to is there are 3 groups. A/B/C format A group being advanced fastest guys on the track/racers B group people faster then C group but not at A group level and then C group for the beginners. There are diffrent passing rules for each group to keep everyone safe like for us C group can only pass on the outside. Where B and A can pass inside and outside. The resposabilty of making a safe pass is on the person who is making the pass, as a rider you are to focus on what is going on in front of you.

Yiu will have other bikes on the track and they will be all sorts of displacement. Don't worry about it as again it's not a race. Here they run continual 20 min sessions so A goes out for 20 then B goes out for 20 then C goes out for 20 then back to A and it cycles.

You will have a rider meeting in the morning where yet go over all the rules and flags used. The ones here also have a second meeting for first timers right after that and then one more after your first session.

There will be instructors/control riders on the track with each group. They are there to help the riders that want it and make sure everyone is safe. Make sure you use them! They are nice and will have you follow them around the track showing you lines and will chat you up after a session with tips and advice.


Things you will need are
A chair, shade (pop up tent), lots and lots and lots of water! Snacks (granola,trail mix, fruit) and something for lunch. You will be required to have proper gear so check and make sure you have the requirements that the track day people request as some require more then others. You will also have to tech your bike to there regulations as well.

The main thing is to not go into it thinking you are a badass or try to be a track day hero. Work on your skills, work on getting better. Do not be intimidated either, the people at the track are nice and always willing to help out. The best thing I ever did for my ridig was go to the track.

[Alex]

@almost40 had started work on a trackday wiki entry right here:

http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Trackdays

If folks have ideas on what to add into that text, might be a good place to point from threads like this.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Don't worry about "racing" because you'll have to do a LOT of track days before you can do any of that at a legit track. Based on your questions, one can only assume you've never done a track day, which would put you in hte C group if you were at my track. This is hte beginner group, and has all different kinds of bikes. Sure, you'll get passed on the straights, but it's fun keeping up with these bigger bikes in the turns. Hell, at the right track, you could actually pull off some passes of your own. The point of a track day is not to race, but to have a blast, going fast and hanging it out there with none of the "real world" consequences like oncoming traffic, debris in the road, and the local PD dishing out speeding tickets.

You hit the nail on the head there, but as an experienced rider who can lay it down in corners I give no quarter to whoevers behind me. Sort of like the first and even more importantly second turns in a race. I have raced but not on tracks just closed roads. I guess I'm thinking what a blast it would be for ninjette 250 only track days.

[alex.s]

however good you think you are, trust me when i say you will be sorely disappointed when you get beside some of the better guys at the track. late braking takes on a new meaning when you see someone on a 250 take a turn WOT that you brake for just to get the front turned in in time. not saying anyone sucks or anything, but comparing street riding to track riding is like comparing chickens to dinosaurs. its very inspiring to have your concept of "fast" completely shattered

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Havok

Get the race part out of your head. For a normal track day you should go into it with the mindset of learning and having fun. There are no trophies given out. When on the track for a track day it's best to forget your ego. The only person you need to prove anything to is yourself.

The way it works or at least the way it worked for the ones I have gone to is there are 3 groups. A/B/C format A group being advanced fastest guys on the track/racers B group people faster then C group but not at A group level and then C group for the beginners. There are diffrent passing rules for each group to keep everyone safe like for us C group can only pass on the outside. Where B and A can pass inside and outside. The resposabilty of making a safe pass is on the person who is making the pass, as a rider you are to focus on what is going on in front of you.

Yiu will have other bikes on the track and they will be all sorts of displacement. Don't worry about it as again it's not a race. Here they run continual 20 min sessions so A goes out for 20 then B goes out for 20 then C goes out for 20 then back to A and it cycles.

You will have a rider meeting in the morning where yet go over all the rules and flags used. The ones here also have a second meeting for first timers right after that and then one more after your first session.

There will be instructors/control riders on the track with each group. They are there to help the riders that want it and make sure everyone is safe. Make sure you use them! They are nice and will have you follow them around the track showing you lines and will chat you up after a session with tips and advice.


Things you will need are
A chair, shade (pop up tent), lots and lots and lots of water! Snacks (granola,trail mix, fruit) and something for lunch. You will be required to have proper gear so check and make sure you have the requirements that the track day people request as some require more then others. You will also have to tech your bike to there regulations as well.

The main thing is to not go into it thinking you are a badass or try to be a track day hero. Work on your skills, work on getting better. Do not be intimidated either, the people at the track are nice and always willing to help out. The best thing I ever did for my ridig was go to the track.

Just read your (missed) post and it's great in one respect I had concerns about. Guys riding half-litre bikes thinking (or being given) right of way, especially approaching and exiting corners. I can just see dudes on 636s or gsxrs getting riled.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by coondog

Just read your (missed) post and it's great in one respect I had concerns about. Guys riding half-litre bikes thinking (or being given) right of way, especially approaching and exiting corners. I can just see dudes on 636s or gsxrs getting riled.

I bet you find the opposite.... You shouldn't find many squid type attitudes at the track, a lot of the riders at the track know what a 250 can do with a skilled pilot.

RESPECT!

The only thing I have found is the occasional hot head wanting to get the best lap time he can. But yea... overall... even track traffic sucks sometimes.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by coondog

Just read your (missed) post and it's great in one respect I had concerns about. Guys riding half-litre bikes thinking (or being given) right of way, especially approaching and exiting corners. I can just see dudes on 636s or gsxrs getting riled.

Nope not at all, Not once have i had anyone say or do anything while i was on the 250 about passing me. Those are not the type of people you find. Remember they are in c group as well, they are learning as well, they will either pass you or wait till they can pass you. Its just not that kind of vibe, there are a few people who have egos and stuff like that but they will be in b group, those with that type of attitude on the track there ego wont let them stay in C group.

Honestly i felt like that too, then i went to the track and my mind was opened up, i have had two AMA racers help me out, Nem, Rex, Dino, Zombiphone and so many more all there with advice and tips. The instructors from the org and even just people in the pits. Remember the people that go to the track are riders, They have a passion for bikes and the track and are more then willing to share that passion. As long as you are willing to listen and take it seriously. If your goal is to be billy joe badass and a track day hero, expect a lot of cold shoulders.

[Firehorse]

Article just out in one of the MC mags about this.

Getting in people's way was cited as a common concern for new riders and riders on smaller bikes. The experts pointed out that you should never be worrying about what's behind you, your job is to look at what's in front of you. The people behind you will be doing the same. So they can see you and know that you're riding a smaller bike and will ride accordingly.

Around here we have a few different track day styles from what I've heard.
One is a newbie only track day and there's no passing in the corners or you're out. After the morning of instruction and practice, the group is split up according to skill and each group has their own instructors. Once you have done this track day, THEN you can move onto regular track days, again you will be placed in the first group skill level and as you gain experience, the instructors will move you up to the more advanced classes.

The other regular track day around here is women only, all types of bikes. Many experienced women are regulars and they rent the track for that night, open to any women. Go whatever speed/skill level you need to to learn from the experience and ask lots of questions!

Check out the new MC mags for articles about starting track days, I think there's three in December issues on news stands now.

[jstrain]

Like others have said, you'd be amazed how laid back and helpful the general vibe is at a track day. When I first started, I was really nervous about being a newb, being in the way, being too slow, etc.

Every track day I've attended, the people you pit next to are friendly and helpful, the organizers are, the control riders are.

I think the fact that you need to gear up, pass tech, pay for it, and prepare for it tends to weed out the folks who just want to show off. The people who wind up there are the ones who love riding, want to improve, and want to have fun.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Article just out in one of the MC mags about this.

Getting in people's way was cited as a common concern for new riders and riders on smaller bikes. The experts pointed out that you should never be worrying about what's behind you, your job is to look at what's in front of you. The people behind you will be doing the same. So they can see you and know that you're riding a smaller bike and will ride accordingly.

Around here we have a few different track day styles from what I've heard.
One is a newbie only track day and there's no passing in the corners or you're out. After the morning of instruction and practice, the group is split up according to skill and each group has their own instructors. Once you have done this track day, THEN you can move onto regular track days, again you will be placed in the first group skill level and as you gain experience, the instructors will move you up to the more advanced classes.


Right up my alley of concern, thanks.








The other regular track day around here is women only, all types of bikes. Many experienced women are regulars and they rent the track for that night, open to any women. Go whatever speed/skill level you need to to learn from the experience and ask lots of questions!

Check out the new MC mags for articles about starting track days, I think there's three in December issues on news stands now.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Article just out in one of the MC mags about this.

Getting in people's way was cited as a common concern for new riders and riders on smaller bikes. The experts pointed out that you should never be worrying about what's behind you, your job is to look at what's in front of you. The people behind you will be doing the same. So they can see you and know that you're riding a smaller bike and will ride accordingly.

Around here we have a few different track day styles from what I've heard.
One is a newbie only track day and there's no passing in the corners or you're out. After the morning of instruction and practice, the group is split up according to skill and each group has their own instructors. Once you have done this track day, THEN you can move onto regular track days, again you will be placed in the first group skill level and as you gain experience, the instructors will move you up to the more advanced classes.


Right up my alley of concern, thanks to you and Havock as well for specifically hitting on some unspoken concerns.








The other regular track day around here is women only, all types of bikes. Many experienced women are regulars and they rent the track for that night, open to any women. Go whatever speed/skill level you need to to learn from the experience and ask lots of questions!

Check out the new MC mags for articles about starting track days, I think there's three in December issues on news stands now.

[coondog]

I thanked a couple of you on return posts, if I missed Chris and jeremy or any others, thanks alot. Every post was heartfelt (concern) and legitimate which may even be a first for someone like me here ( my attitude can suck). I really appreciate all, Peace out, bless and keep yours over the holidays (and track/race days).

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by coondog

Just read your (missed) post and it's great in one respect I had concerns about. Guys riding half-litre bikes thinking (or being given) right of way, especially approaching and exiting corners. I can just see dudes on 636s or gsxrs getting riled.

No at all. The rulesat the tracks I go to say very clearly that it's the passing rider's responsibility to pull it off, and it must be done SAFELY. My last track day I had a Gixxer rider who did get pissed becuase he couldn't shake me in the corners. Sure, once we hit the straight he was GONE. But it was funny watching him look over and be surprised that I was right there, so he couldn't finish his pass in the turn.

From my first track day, I never worried about the people behind me, and any new track rider should do the same. Just focus on having fun. Going fast will come with experience without "trying".

[coondog]

I had my speed days, it would be more about safety in riding to any limit desired at a given time or place , plus on a track, with the comraderie shared by almost all riders. Thanks again all, for that comraderie shown here today. As always happy trails.