too short to ride =( seat shaving anyone?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

All im trying to say is just because YOU may be good riding like that not everyone else is. And lowering a bike is NOT a sign of weakness and should not be looked at like that. Make the bike fit you.

Afraid to jump into the fray, but I disagree with this as well. A lack of confidence in low speed balancing is a weakness. Most all new riders will share that weakness, whether short or tall (along with an innumerable list of other riding weaknesses compared to more skilled pilots).

I have a stubby inseam as well for someone my height (30"), which admittedly isn't an issue for the ninjette, but means that I'm tiptoeing on each side for some bikes, and on only one side on even taller bikes (like my RT, for example).

It would be nice if motorcycles of all types came in all different sizes so everyone could be comfortable at whatever height, with no performance or other compromises on the bike. Sadly, that's not going to happen for a variety of reasons, both economic and technologic. If an experienced rider continues to require that all bikes they ride allow them to touch easily on both sides, they are going to be limited in choice of bikes, and performance of the bikes that they do choose as long as they are in the sport. It just makes more sense to grow as a rider (as growing in stature isn't in the cards for most of us).

[NevadaWolf]

You learn a skill when you are comfortable on the machine. If you start off uncomfortable, you will not be able to focus enough to learn properly. If it is impossible to balance the bike with two feet when you are just starting, you will not feel secure enough on the bike to change things up to working on balancing with one foot.

The OP just started riding in April, she has got no experience. If modifying her bike gives her a bike she can be confident on, the modify away! If she decides later that she wants to take the bike to the track or ride an aggressive pace, and the lowering affects the clearance, then she can raise the bike back up or find alternate hard parts to swap to.

Its not the same for tall riders on tall bikes, because you know there are stock bikes out there that you can reach on so its a choice to learn different techniques. When you have a shorter inseam than any bike save the kids dirt bikes, its not a choice. Having a bike that doesn't fit and knowing there really is no other bike that you can safely learn on impacts your confidence.

Make the bike yours, @Alisha_Ardella. Once you are confident you can control your bike, you can return it to stock if wanted or simply continue working on your technique that allows you to stop and be stable in any situation.

[supersport]

Riding and learning is all about confidence. If a rider think that lowering and shaving seat fits their needs then psychologically they can learn faster that way. Once they gain more confidence, they can go whichever direction they want their riding experience to be.

I personally don't feel like lowering the bike is safe. I'm paranoid when i push it hard there is a lower chance for me to save myself from hazards. I tip toe on my bigger bike and i live with that because i want to ride it the way it was engineer to. These so call lowering links just give you want you want without much thought on the actual dynamics of keeping the bike safe at speeds and lean angles.

As long as you don't push the bike too hard then the lowering links should be fine.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Originally Posted by Alex

Afraid to jump into the fray, but I disagree with this as well. A lack of confidence in low speed balancing is a weakness. Most all new riders will share that weakness, whether short or tall (along with an innumerable list of other riding weaknesses compared to more skilled pilots).

Jump away!

Let me see if i can phrase it better: I dont think its a weakness to accept you own physical limitations.
I wasn't referring to skill level, that comes with time and until the skills are developed it is a weakness. But maybe not necessarily negative?

My weakness at the moment is putting my thoughts into words.

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

You learn a skill when you are comfortable on the machine. If you start off uncomfortable, you will not be able to focus enough to learn properly. If it is impossible to balance the bike with two feet when you are just starting, you will not feel secure enough on the bike to change things up to working on balancing with one foot.

The OP just started riding in April, she has got no experience. If modifying her bike gives her a bike she can be confident on, the modify away! If she decides later that she wants to take the bike to the track or ride an aggressive pace, and the lowering affects the clearance, then she can raise the bike back up or find alternate hard parts to swap to.

Its not the same for tall riders on tall bikes, because you know there are stock bikes out there that you can reach on so its a choice to learn different techniques. When you have a shorter inseam than any bike save the kids dirt bikes, its not a choice. Having a bike that doesn't fit and knowing there really is no other bike that you can safely learn on impacts your confidence.

Make the bike yours, @Alisha_Ardella. Once you are confident you can control your bike, you can return it to stock if wanted or simply continue working on your technique that allows you to stop and be stable in any situation.

Once again you make my point better than i can.
This is exactly how i feel.

[InvisiBill]

I agree at least somewhat with both sides here. If you're so short that you have no confidence, it's hard to even begin to learn and build confidence. Lowering the bike (even temporarily) may be a way to boost your confidence, so you can actually focus on learning, and maybe even get to the point of being comfortable on it at the stock height. On the other hand, modifying the bike to fit your weaknesses (any riding-related weakness in general) won't help you get past those weaknesses, and could even exacerbate them.

I would also tend to go for the seat change first. Lowering the suspension changes the geometry of the bike. It doesn't seem to be as common on the NewGen, but I've seen a few people mention it for the PreGen, and it's fairly common on the EX500 to raise the rear end (and therefore the seat) to improve the geometry. Lowering links are pretty much the exact opposite of that, and could very well have a negative effect on handling. You can lower the front to match and minimize the geometry change, but then you've reduced ground clearance overall, and could run into problems there too. If you change the seat, you're simply sitting closer to the pegs and ground, without altering the bike's mechanical parts at all. Obviously the links would be better for a temporary swap, but if you know you're short and will always have height issues, I think the seat is a better option (though I don't know how much you can really cut down the NewGen's seat).

Personally, I try to take routes with stop signs and little traffic, so I only have to stop long enough to be legal. I put 0 feet down for those. =)

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

If you're so short that you have no confidence, it's hard to even begin to learn and build confidence. Lowering the bike (even temporarily) may be a way to boost your confidence, so you can actually focus on learning, and maybe even get to the point of being comfortable on it at the stock height. On the other hand, modifying the bike to fit your weaknesses (any riding-related weakness in general) won't help you get past those weaknesses, and could even exacerbate them.

Exactly, that's why in my initial post I suggested lower the bike, but still learning to ride with only one foot down.

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

I'd say your best bet is to lower the bike maybe an inch or so but then really work on only stopping with one foot. If your short it's best to gain that skill rather than trying to adjust the bike.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

I agree at least somewhat with both sides here. If you're so short that you have no confidence, it's hard to even begin to learn and build confidence. Lowering the bike (even temporarily) may be a way to boost your confidence, so you can actually focus on learning, and maybe even get to the point of being comfortable on it at the stock height. On the other hand, modifying the bike to fit your weaknesses (any riding-related weakness in general) won't help you get past those weaknesses, and could even exacerbate them.

Agreed. Once you gain the skill, continuing to use the crutch won't help you in the long term. To an extent, anyway.

If you are ultra new rider and feel flat footing is the best to learn, lower to flat foot.

Once you gain the confidence to safely balance the bike, raise it until you are on the balls of your feet, repeat learning the skill until you are stable and confident that you can balance.

If possible, continue raising and learning until you are at the maximum height that you feel safe to continue from. Then leave it alone. On anything bigger than a Ninja there will get to be a point where reaching the ground is just out of the question for short inseams.

For all but the shortest riders, lowering the bike is a temporary measure until experience teaches you the skill needed. But if you do learn the skill and even then you are sliding off the seat to tip toe on one foot, then lowering may become a necessary and permanent change.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

For all but the shortest riders, lowering the bike is a temporary measure until experience teaches you the skill needed. But if you do learn the skill and even then you are sliding off the seat to tip toe on one foot, then lowering may become a necessary and permanent change.

[Rogue]

I don't know if I want to give my opinion/experience on this topic or not... what the heck, I have a pretty thick skin.

At 5' 1/2" (5' 1" if I stand up really, really straight and think tall thoughts), I'm a munchkin. It's okay though, I've been short my whole life. The husband and I went back and forth on whether or not to lower my 300. I've never been able to get more than the front half of the balls of my feet down even with thick soled boots. I was adamantly against lowering it. I didn't see it as a weakness per se, I saw it as a challenge I needed to overcome if I wanted to ride bigger bikes in the future. So, instead of lowering it, I bought a pair of thicker soled riding boots - the Dainese Sirens give me about 1/2" height boost. That was really all I needed to get both feet down just enough on a flat surface in order to have enough leverage to push the bike back if I need to. When I stopped, it was just my left foot down and I scooted off the edge of the seat; however, I only tend to do that when it's a prolonged stop. For stop signs with no one around, I'm a track standing kind of girl. To get comfortable with all of this, I spent a good 40+ hours in parking lots just practicing stops, moving the bike around while sitting on it, and turns from stops. But, with all that, I wasn't quite as comfortable as I wanted to be and I spent my entire first riding season with perpetual bruises on my left calf from banging into the peg all the time. Also, at that point mastering the ride was something I felt I needed to work at, not something I enjoyed with all of my heart.

So, for this, my second season, I invested in a set of rearsets. Yep, now my n00b butt is riding around with an ultra adjustable pair of Vortex rearsets. Yes, I broke the 'cardinal rule' and bought hard parts to fix a riding problem. Nope, I'm not going to apologize even a smidgeon. Let me say it again. I. Bought. Hard. Parts. To. Fix. My. Riding. Problem. See, as it turns out, moving the pegs back 2" (the up 1" was just icing on the proverbial cake) made it so I no longer need to reach around the pegs and struggle to get both feet down with just enough leverage to matter. I'm still so far from flat footing the bike that it's not even funny, but I've never envisioned I would ever do that anyway. I still use only my left foot to stop 90% of the time, but now I long to ride my bike because it's comfortable and I'm entirely confident on it. Yes, that's right, by moving the pegs out of the way I got the biggest confidence boost imaginable because now I'm comfortable with stopping and with the amount of reach I have.

So yes, some folks lower their bike, some shave the seat, some do both, and some go a more creative route. It's not for me to judge how some one else tackles the short inseam issue. It's my job to offer up the 'hey, this is how I did it, maybe some variation will help you, too' and be happy that the person is in love enough with riding that they want to overcome a minor obstacle that's holding them back.

[NevadaWolf]

OT, @Rogue, got a link or thread on those Vortex rearsets? I hate having to put my leg around my pegs and moving then back and up would spare my poor knees.

Pretty pretty please??

[thisisbenji]

The key difference there is you tried to work around your problem BEFORE you bought hard parts. Btw, when I put setback plates on my FZ6 I noticed it became much easier to touch the ground as well, no more banging the back of my leg on them damn pegs.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

The key difference there is you tried to work around your problem BEFORE you bought hard parts. .

So has the OP

[thisisbenji]

No offense but the OP doesn't seem like she has been riding long enough to really know. I mean she hasn't even got boots yet, she picked up her helmet AFTER she started this thread and doesn't have gloves either. ****, a good pair of full boots might make enough difference over the converse she said she's riding in. I know I have to wear mine to ride the WR250.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

OT, @Rogue, got a link or thread on those Vortex rearsets? I hate having to put my leg around my pegs and moving then back and up would spare my poor knees.

Pretty pretty please??

I got mine from Revzilla (http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/v...ninja-300-250r), but several other places sell them as well.

Just keep in mind that you also (well, assuming you want that rear brake to actually illuminate your brake light) need a 10mm x 1.25 inline brake switch (http://www.revzilla.com/product/vort...e-light-switch). It replaces the stock banjo bolt and requires you cut and splice the electrical line.

I won't lie, at nearly $400 they were spendy. I could have gotten different ones for a lot less, but I plan on keeping the bike for a very long time and liked not only the Vortex reputation, but also that every part is modular and can be replaced individually if I ever crash. Speaking of crashing, the pegs even have a snap location designed to still leave you enough peg to ride home on if you crash and break the pegs.

I'm really happy with the new setup. I wish I would have done it last year. I literally spent my entire summer with a huge bruise about 3" wide just above the top of my left boot. After 2 rides this year, I ordered them and haven't looked back.

[NevadaWolf]

Danke! They're out of stock but gives me a place to start looking.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Danke! They're out of stock but gives me a place to start looking.

Motorcycle-Superstore has them in stock for the same price.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...Z6IbRVJSXw_wcB

Edit: Or, I guess they don't either.

I did find them here, though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortex-Rears...item4aca42ba0f

[LittleRedNinjette]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Motorcycle-Superstore has them in stock for the same price.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...Z6IbRVJSXw_wcB

Edit: Or, I guess they don't either.

I did find them here, though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortex-Rears...item4aca42ba0f

A little out of my price range at the moment but very nice.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

A little out of my price range at the moment but very nice.

Warning, off topic!!

I recently totaled up how much I've spent on mods and I got more than a little queasy. But, I love the setup, looks, and sound and that's really all that matters, right? At least that's what I keep telling myself.

[NinjaZX6R123]

Lower the bike. Then get a lowered kickstand or have the mechanic cut and weld the stock one. If you're not carving canyons or doing tracks, which the OP sounds like she won't be doing, you can't tell the difference.

Not lowering = Unconfident when riding. Dangerous due to not being able to balance or stop properly. Uncomfortable.

Lowering = Better confidence which equals learning and becoming a better rider. More comfortable ride. You will enjoy riding. Only bad side is clearance and shock but that's not an issue even if you're hitting the canyons or tracks. You don't need to knee drag to make corners and just lift your butt up when going over bumps.

I have never met anyone that complained about lowering their bike (if you decide to do track just raise it back up), but have met numerous people who dropped their bike not lowering it.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Warning, off topic!!

I recently totaled up how much I've spent on mods and I got more than a little queasy. But, I love the setup, looks, and sound and that's really all that matters, right? At least that's what I keep telling myself.

When that guy totaled my 250 and I did the math on what I had put into her over the time I had her....

Anyway

The OP just needs to do what makes her comfortable to become a good rider. (Like a couple other posts have already said)
Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.
*you* just have to do what feels right for yourself.

[fast1075]

I'm 5' 2". There have over the years been many times that I was interested in a particular bike until I sat on it, and tried to pick it up from the side stand. That is the time that many bikes get dropped. Foot slips from some small amount of debris, and over it goes. (As a mechanic, I fixed many left side damaged slip/dropped bikes).

My Buell is the absolute tallest bike I have ever bought. When I looked at it, at first I told the salesman I wouldn't buy it because it was too tall. But Buell sold "low" seats that were nearly 2" lower than stock. They had one, popped it on and at that point I could safely manage.

Even with the low seat I cannot get both feet down at once, not even tip toes. I slide over and get one foot planted, and that is good enough most times. I have had some hairy moments with oil on the road at traffic lights, but not dropped it.

My 250 is the first bike in a long time that I could get both feet down on. When I changed tires from stock to Sport Demons, it raised it quite a bit. Went from flat foot to tip toes. I put risers on the front, which lowered it an inch. They not only lowered it a good bit, but vastly improved the handling, with much better turn in.

One of my friend's wife has a 250 that has the Roaring Toyz kit. She is truly tiny. I rode the bike and it handles fine. Yes it is easy to find the curb feelers, but not everybody drags knee.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by fast1075

I'm 5' 2". There have over the years been many times that I was interested in a particular bike until I sat on it, and tried to pick it up from the side stand. That is the time that many bikes get dropped. Foot slips from some small amount of debris, and over it goes. (As a mechanic, I fixed many left side damaged slip/dropped bikes).

My Buell is the absolute tallest bike I have ever bought. When I looked at it, at first I told the salesman I wouldn't buy it because it was too tall. But Buell sold "low" seats that were nearly 2" lower than stock. They had one, popped it on and at that point I could safely manage.

Even with the low seat I cannot get both feet down at once, not even tip toes. I slide over and get one foot planted, and that is good enough most times. I have had some hairy moments with oil on the road at traffic lights, but not dropped it.

My 250 is the first bike in a long time that I could get both feet down on. When I changed tires from stock to Sport Demons, it raised it quite a bit. Went from flat foot to tip toes. I put risers on the front, which lowered it an inch. They not only lowered it a good bit, but vastly improved the handling, with much better turn in.

One of my friend's wife has a 250 that has the Roaring Toyz kit. She is truly tiny. I rode the bike and it handles fine. Yes it is easy to find the curb feelers, but not everybody drags knee.

Have you sat on a FZ09 yet? I did a few months ago, it felt 250 tiny to me. The seat is truly narrow on it. Obviously it's not a good beginner bike, but for those who are vertically challenged and experienced it might be a good option. I could get my feet down better on the FZ09 than I could my 2009 Ninja 250R.

[Alisha_Ardella]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

No offense but the OP doesn't seem like she has been riding long enough to really know. I mean she hasn't even got boots yet, she picked up her helmet AFTER she started this thread and doesn't have gloves either. ****, a good pair of full boots might make enough difference over the converse she said she's riding in. I know I have to wear mine to ride the WR250.

I have had my bike since last year. Yes I just not bought my helmet I was using someone else's before. Did I ride it much last year heck no. I still don't have gloves or boots (b*$ch all you want the converse are gone Nike have replaced them) but since I lowered it I can actually ride it now. Confidence that I could stop this heavy thing from tipping over on me is all I really needed. I ride it to work every chance I get being able to touch has made all the difference in the world.

[LittleRedNinjette]

In regards the the footwear, and just a suggestion, you don't have to go spend hundreds of dollars on true motorcycle boots. I have a pair of thick work boots i wear. The actual give me a 1" or 1.5" height boost.
The ones i have are RedWing but any high top boot would be ok.
My boots probably did a lot to keep my ankle from braking when the car hit me too.

Just my

Glad to hear you're more comfortable now though!