Bike in gear, goes nowhere

[FloRiduh]

Hello everybody! This will be quite long, sorry!

I am having an issue with my clutch/gears or something, not too sure.

Here are the details:

I was riding on the highway, like normal. I slowed down to take the exit ramp and slowed down, downshifted and slowed down. I shifted to 2nd to accelerate off the exit ramp and when I gave it throttle, the bike went nowhere.

Bike still does not move when in gear, it just idles like in neutral but it's in gear (according to the neutral light)

I've asked people at work who know about bikes and some told me to try and adjust my clutch cable because they thought it sounded like a clutch cable problem.

I think I did it correctly but not to sure. I've watched plenty of videos on how to adjust the cable and leave a 1/8in of play. I did all that but bike still idles while in gear.

There is no clunking noise when shifting the bike into first. There is only the normal click. No clunk, or slight jolt. Nothing.

What else could it be? My last resort will be to take it to the shop.

[Sirref]

sounds like a clutch issue, on the other end of the cable

this is a tad beyond me so I'll page @Motofool @Finesse

only advice I can give is to get a shop manual (worth every penny) and see if you can replace the clutch yourself. The much easier and quicker method would be to take it to a shop though

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by Sirref

sounds like a clutch issue, on the other end of the cable

this is a tad beyond me so I'll page @Motofool @Finesse

only advice I can give is to get a shop manual (worth every penny) and see if you can replace the clutch yourself. The much easier and quicker method would be to take it to a shop though

That's what I was thinking too. I want to be able to work on it myself if it's doable, but if it would be something that required lifts and stuff that I have no easy access too, I would rather let a shop do it correctly.

What would you estimate is the price of a new clutch with and without the labor of a shop?

[cadd]

So what did you do? How did you get off the highway?

[subxero]

when the bike is not running can you push the bike as if it were in neutral with out operating the clutch?

So you set your clutch cable tension and it feels normal as if you can feel the plates being pulled apart as you pull in the clutch? You have the slightest bit of slack in the cable when the clutch lever is not pulled in?

Back to the can you push it question. If you can't push it with out the clutch because it is in gear, can you push it if you do pull in the clutch?

Can you shift with the bike running or not running?

If your clutch lever feels normal and you can tell that the plates are moving, you are probably stuck in a false neutral. Would think it is a problem with your shift shaft or something directly connected to that.

I doubt it has anything to do with the clutch cable unless you have it too tight causing the clutch to slip, even with a completely cut clutch cable the bike will operate like normal and you can shift and what not, I have ridden many of miles on my dirtbike a few times with a complete severed clutch cable. If it is the clutch it is because it is slipping or not engaging for one reason or another.

I would just keep trying to get it to shift into gear trying different things, if it doesn't go into gear, take the clutch cover off and see if it is stuck open or you have broken plate, bad springs or something? after that look into the shifting mechanism

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by cadd

So what did you do? How did you get off the highway?

Luckily I was already on the off ramp when it happened, so I was able to coast over to a shoulder.

[csmith12]

[DEFY]

what subxero sayed, check if you can push the bike without the clutch pulled in. This will give you an idea if it's stuck in nuetral, false-nuetral or a gear. If doesn't push try pulling the clutch in and pushing it, this would also give you an idea if the clutch cable works properly.

[Alex]

If it's in gear with the engine running and it's not going anywhere, the hope is that it's a clutch problem. As otherwise, it's a very serious transmission issue.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by subxero

when the bike is not running can you push the bike as if it were in neutral with out operating the clutch?

So you set your clutch cable tension and it feels normal as if you can feel the plates being pulled apart as you pull in the clutch? You have the slightest bit of slack in the cable when the clutch lever is not pulled in?

Back to the can you push it question. If you can't push it with out the clutch because it is in gear, can you push it if you do pull in the clutch?

Can you shift with the bike running or not running?

If your clutch lever feels normal and you can tell that the plates are moving, you are probably stuck in a false neutral. Would think it is a problem with your shift shaft or something directly connected to that.

I doubt it has anything to do with the clutch cable unless you have it too tight causing the clutch to slip, even with a completely cut clutch cable the bike will operate like normal and you can shift and what not, I have ridden many of miles on my dirtbike a few times with a complete severed clutch cable. If it is the clutch it is because it is slipping or not engaging for one reason or another.

I would just keep trying to get it to shift into gear trying different things, if it doesn't go into gear, take the clutch cover off and see if it is stuck open or you have broken plate, bad springs or something? after that look into the shifting mechanism

I will do all this when I get home from work today. I'll borrow an oil pan from work to drain the oil and use the DIY thread in these forums to look at the clutch.

I will report back when I get done with everything tonight.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by Alex

If it's in gear with the engine running and it's not going anywhere, the hope is that it's a clutch problem. As otherwise, it's a very serious transmission issue.

I really hope it's not the transmission, I also don't think it is.

[crazymadbastard]

Try rolling bike forward and backwards while playing with shifter and clutch to see if it catches.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

I really hope it's not the transmission, I also don't think it is.

That's the thing, it's either the clutch or the transmission. There really aren't any other options. I hope it works out. (clutch pads, clutch springs, etc. are relatively cheap and easy. transmission repairs, not so much).

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

.......... There is no clunking noise when shifting the bike into first. There is only the normal click. No clunk, or slight jolt. Nothing.

What else could it be? My last resort will be to take it to the shop. [/COLOR]

Have you inspected the external shifting mechanism and the front sprocket and the chain?

Before doing any surgery, you could open the plug for putting oil into the clutch cavity and see if the clutch is rotating.

If it rotates, I would disconnect the external linkage and would shift by hand, with the help of a crescent wrench on the spline's clamp, while the rear tire rotates freely in the air.

[cbinker]

Can you start the bike w/o pulling clutch lever?

[Finesse]

Originally Posted by subxero

I doubt it has anything to do with the clutch cable unless you have it too tight causing the clutch to slip, even with a completely cut clutch cable the bike will operate like normal and you can shift and what not, I have ridden many of miles on my dirtbike a few times with a complete severed clutch cable.

yup

also yes its either the clutch or the trans. will wait to hear more updates

[DmbShn41]

I'm going with Motofool on this one. Have you done anything recent with your shift pedal or the linkage or rear sets? I have mistakenly adjusted this before to where you can shift out of range of the neutral switch, but normally engage the gear. Make sure this is adjusted properly first. Seems most likely, particularly if you have done anything or have had anything happen in this area.

[FloRiduh]

@Motofool @subxero @DmbShn41 @Finesse @cbinker @Sirref @Alex @crazymadbastard @DEFY

Okay guys, I'm back. Sorry for the long wait.

My bike will still roll even if it's not in neutral. So I decided to bring my bike into work Saturday so my coworker could look at it today. He used to work for a motorcycle dealership as a technician, so he knows much more than I do.

Well, we began by opening the clutch cover, drained the oil and everything looked good. Seriously, not a problem. We put everything back and looked at the other side. This is what he noticed.

He noticed that there was a bolt missing from the center of the front sprocket. There was nothing holding the sprocket to the bike besides the chain. He also told me that if it had slid off the back tire would have locked up. He told me he is not sure if it's supposed to have a safety thing to hold the 2 pieces together.

I had a dealership put the front/rear/chain on my bike about 2 months ago. They are closed today, so tomorrow I will call them.

Do you guys think that the dealership should be responsible for this? My coworker did not mess with the other side at all, he simply looked at it.


Edit: Good example of what happened, except I wasn't on a track.

Originally Posted by Nemesis

This past weekend @ the track, I downshifted just before a turn and got nothing but false neutral so obviously I shifted one gear up (never down) and again nothing but false neutral. So I pulled into the dirt and had the crash truck pick me up.

When I got to the pits, we discovered the nut & washer holding the front sprocket was completely gone and the front sprocket was barely hanging off transmission shaft.

[DEFY]

oooo so all that motor power and no way to transfer it to your back wheel, that would do it. If it's just a single bolt I wouldn't make a big fuss over it, as long as it is just the bolt coming loose and not the bolt being stripped out from the mechanic. Did you check the threads?

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by DEFY

oooo so all that motor power and no way to transfer it to your back wheel, that would do it. If it's just a single bolt I wouldn't make a big fuss over it, as long as it is just the bolt coming loose and not the bolt being stripped out from the mechanic. Did you check the threads?

Well, I wrote it incorrectly. This is what happened to mine (except NOT the track part):

Originally Posted by Nemesis

This past weekend @ the track, I downshifted just before a turn and got nothing but false neutral so obviously I shifted one gear up (never down) and again nothing but false neutral. So I pulled into the dirt and had the crash truck pick me up.

When I got to the pits, we discovered the nut & washer holding the front sprocket was completely gone and the front sprocket was barely hanging off transmission shaft.

Does this make more sense now?

[DEFY]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

Well, I wrote it incorrectly. This is what happened to mine (except NOT the track part):


Does this make more sense now?

Yea, I understood the first time around though. Saying if the sprocket isn't fastened to the shaft the shaft would spin freely in the sprocket. Meaning the engine would have no way of transferring back to the rear wheel. My guess is the mechanic should have never touched the front sprocket when replacing your chain. If he had to then I would just make sure that the threads for the missing bolt are still good, if so then the bolt came loose. No reason to butt heads over a loose bolt, just use loctite on the next one.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by DEFY

Yea, I understood the first time around though. Saying if the sprocket isn't fastened to the shaft the shaft would spin freely in the sprocket. Meaning the engine would have no way of transferring back to the rear wheel. My guess is the mechanic should have never touched the front sprocket when replacing your chain. If he had to then I would just make sure that the threads for the missing bolt are still good, if so then the bolt came loose. No reason to butt heads over a loose bolt, just use loctite on the next one.

Oh, I forgot to state that they replaced the front and rear sprockets with the chain as well. That's why they messed with the front sprocket.

Isn't it pretty serious if the sprocket came loose?

[crazymadbastard]

At least is an easy fix.
here is a diy on the sprockets with pics:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273

[DEFY]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

Oh, I forgot to state that they replaced the front and rear sprockets with the chain as well. That's why they messed with the front sprocket.

Isn't it pretty serious if the sprocket came loose?

I mean it sucks but it didn't result in a loss of the bike, just an inconvenience. I'd go @crazymadbastard route, do work self, bolts/washers don't cost much. If you want you can try reasoning with the shop, not sure how reasonable they are but they might just do it. Just don't get worked up about it, no reason to be nasty or hard headed over.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by DEFY

I mean it sucks but it didn't result in a loss of the bike, just an inconvenience. I'd go @crazymadbastard route, do work self, bolts/washers don't cost much. If you want you can try reasoning with the shop, not sure how reasonable they are but they might just do it. Just don't get worked up about it, no reason to be nasty or hard headed over.

I see. My coworker was just concerned, because it shouldn't have happened, he said it could have been worse. I'll be doing it myself at work, it's not hard.

[cbinker]

I would go tell the dealership what happened and that they lost my business. that way they know they ****ed up and maybe can save someone else from having the same problem.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by cbinker

I would go tell the dealership what happened and that they lost my business. that way they know they ****ed up and maybe can save someone else from having the same problem.

This is what some of my coworkers said to do, not word by word, but similar. They told me it was something really bad and it should not have happened.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

Oh, I forgot to state that they replaced the front and rear sprockets with the chain as well. That's why they messed with the front sprocket.

Isn't it pretty serious if the sprocket came loose?

Yes, whoever did the replacement is totally responsible.

Yes, that is serious failure; you could have hurt yourself very badly or worse.

Please, read about what happened to me:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...5&postcount=17

The new-gen has a big nut that keeps the sprocket on the spline section of the output shaft.
A flat washer that engages in the spline is bent against one side of the big nut to lock it in place and avoid self-rotation and loosening.
Kawasaki specifies replacing that nut retainer washer with a new one after replacing the front sprocket.
There is also a specified torque that keeps it from getting loose.

Please see these:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...47&postcount=3

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273

Please, @alex.s, correct me if i am wrong.

[alex.s]

tell the dealership that they'll be picking up your bike, fixing your ****, replacing the chain and sprocket and doing a rear axle alignment for free, and that they'll be done by the end of the week

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by alex.s

tell the dealership that they'll be picking up your bike, fixing your ****, replacing the chain and sprocket and doing a rear axle alignment for free, and that they'll be done by the end of the week

lol, that's awesome. I'd love to watch him say that and look at the person's face he said it to. hahaha

To be honest though, they will probably tell him to P*ss off... not that he shouldn't try or anything, because he should. But Shops that are dishonest and don't do work correctly usually won't be stand up enough to admit they were wrong.

To OP:
Prime example on why I try to do all my own maintenance. Youtube videos, basic tools and a service manual will get you a long way.

Glad your problem seems rather minor compared to a whole transmission replacement. Hope you get back on two wheels soon and remember to stay safe brother!

[alex.s]

let me walk you through their decision making:
1. huh, we don't have a new lock washer for this chain job
2. oh well, better give it back to the customer and move on to the next bike!

proper mechanic work means not leaving something so obvious undone. and if it had been done, the nut wouldn't have come off. i'd suggest you plaster their incompetence all over any review section, facebook page, or any other public facing area related to them. maybe they will be less likely to cause someones death in the future.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

tell the dealership that they'll be picking up your bike, fixing your ****, replacing the chain and sprocket and doing a rear axle alignment for free, and that they'll be done by the end of the week

My buddy at work also told me to tell them to pick it up and do it correctly. Just wondering, my chain is still good, and so is my front sprocket, should they still replace it or? And what does the rear axle alignment actually do? Sorry, I'm very bad at all this.

I'm still fairly upset about what happened and I hope they own up to it. I'm afraid that they won't and will just ignore my statements. The more I think about it the worse I feel. I can't believe something like this happened. I'm glad I was out of the highway and not near cars when it happened.

My budy that helped me buy my bike and I have gotten our Senas installed on our helmets and we can't use them because my bike is having this issue :/ it sucks. Today was a nice day too.

Thanks for all your support guys, it means a lot, seriously.

[subxero]

It's hard to say if the chain and rear sprocket are fine, probably the rear sprocket is fine but the chain IDK? If the chain was stressed in an odd way it can cause tight spots or loose spots in a few links which ruins the chain. The front sprocket I am not so sure but skeptical it would be ok as it would have been sitting on the end of the drive shaft while it was spinning. I would probably request a new front, they are cheap, shouldn't be a big deal.

I would request a new front sprocket and chain for sure personally just to make sure everything was all good, the rear is probably fine but I would look it over real good and I think that could tell you what you need to know

[cookiebug79]

Pretty sure your chain and sprocket are both still fine.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by subxero

It's hard to say if the chain and rear sprocket are fine, probably the rear sprocket is fine but the chain IDK? If the chain was stressed in an odd way it can cause tight spots or loose spots in a few links which ruins the chain. The front sprocket I am not so sure but skeptical it would be ok as it would have been sitting on the end of the drive shaft while it was spinning. I would probably request a new front, they are cheap, shouldn't be a big deal.

I would request a new front sprocket and chain for sure personally just to make sure everything was all good, the rear is probably fine but I would look it over real good and I think that could tell you what you need to know

As far as I know my chain and front sprocket are both fine. Luckily the chain did not come out and the sprocket almost came out but it didn't. I was able to stop before it got to that point. It was really close though.

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

Pretty sure your chain and sprocket are both still fine.

You're correct. They are still good. It was a good idea to check them though, I don't know much about bikes and their parts but I do know that they are both just as good as the day I bought them. Thank you guys for the advice and concerns. It has helped a lot.

The shop has agreed to give me the bolt and the washer. I will have to wait till Friday to receive them. I will be putting them on myself with my coworker, he knows exactly what to do and I'll be able to watch him do it.

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

let me walk you through their decision making:
1. huh, we don't have a new lock washer for this chain job
2. oh well, better give it back to the customer and move on to the next bike!

proper mechanic work means not leaving something so obvious undone. and if it had been done, the nut wouldn't have come off. i'd suggest you plaster their incompetence all over any review section, facebook page, or any other public facing area related to them. maybe they will be less likely to cause someones death in the future.

I hope that's not how it went down, but you may not be far from the truth. :| That shop seriously has made me not want to re-visit.

[alex.s]

chances are probably pretty high that the ends of the splines on both the sprocket and the output shaft are gnared up from having one end spinning while the other is not. so unless it's actually been inspected by taking the cover off, don't assume its fine.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

The shop has agreed to give me the bolt and the washer. I will have to wait till Friday to receive them. I will be putting them on myself with my coworker, he knows exactly what to do and I'll be able to watch him do it.

the shop made the error. they should be responsible for it. have them do it while you watch them. anything less is encouraging their irresponsible and frankly potentially life threatening behavior

[FloRiduh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

chances are probably pretty high that the ends of the splines on both the sprocket and the output shaft are gnared up from having one end spinning while the other is not. so unless it's actually been inspected by taking the cover off, don't assume its fine.

Originally Posted by alex.s

the shop made the error. they should be responsible for it. have them do it while you watch them. anything less is encouraging their irresponsible and frankly potentially life threatening behavior

The cover was taken off and I was able to look at the sprocket, my coworker said that it has no damage on it. I'll take a look at it again though. If there is damage, it'll be noticeable in the teeth, right?

Maybe you're right. I wasn't too sure about taking it to them, when my parts come in and they call me, I'll consider having them pick it up and watch them work on it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FloRiduh

The cover was taken off and I was able to look at the sprocket, my coworker said that it has no damage on it. I'll take a look at it again though. If there is damage, it'll be noticeable in the teeth, right?

I believe Alex was referring to any evident damage to the splines of the shaft or sprocket, as those were rubbing to each other while the output shaft was rotating when in gear but not the out of position sprocket-chain-rear wheel.
Although the steel of the shaft is harder than the steel of the sprocket, the thread at the end of the shaft could have suffered damaged as well.

Those two splines should slide respect to each other without any radial or torsional play.

Please, see these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_%28mechanical%29

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl...ys/Spline.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broachi...etalworking%29