Challenge Me....

[csmith12]

I have an upcoming test that is labeled as "impossible". I have done my homework x10. I am ready...

I am open to spending the next 30 days writing about ANY subject that ya'lls have questions on. Here is the deal, I will write an article about any subject you guys throw out for the next 30 days. Just give me some time to put it together and make sure it's worthy of posting, ie... 2-3 days to make as best as I can.

Depending on the question, I will post a response or create a new thread as need to address any concerns. As many of you know, I have written articles on ninjette on a varitety of subject matter. Cornering, visual skills, human inputs, ect... ect... The sky's the limit and hold nothing back. PLEASE!!!!

I don't claim to know everything, so any and all input is always welcome.

Thanks ya'lls,

Chris

[adouglas]

Life as a pre-op transsexual: A personal view.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Life as a pre-op transsexual: A personal view.

omfg....

Mr. Fist, you are awarded the WTF question of the day.

I can only answer riding technique/skill related questions, as for that.... your on your own and good luck!

[adouglas]

Life as a pre-op transsexual motorcycle racer: A personal view.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Life as a pre-op transsexual motorcycle racer: A personal view.

Ok... fine, have it your way.

Win races and whatever happens in the paddock, STAYS in the paddock.

[cbinker]

Don't ask don't tell.

[adouglas]

Okay, all kidding aside:

How about the Rumsfeld effect?

There are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. It messes with your head.

You don't really know how much you can trust your brakes, tires, or lean angle until you've already gone and done something you've never done before. The risk of exploring the limits is high. You're just fine until you're not, and then things go pear-shaped very fast with potentially disastrous results.

This is what keeps me from getting aggressive enough when cornering, braking really hard, etc. Getting past it seems impossible. It's a huge barrier.

[crazymadbastard]

Noobies guide to overcoming fear of the moto, or va jj...

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by crazymadbastard

Noobies guide to overcoming fear of the moto, or va jj...

Deal!

Article: Addressing Fear

Give me 2 days, until then, keep other ideas coming in please.

[crazymadbastard]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Deal!

Article: Addressing Fear

Give me 2 days, until then, keep other ideas coming in please.

which one?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by crazymadbastard

which one?

Lol... I will let you decide after you read it. It just might apply to either or.

[alex.s]

braking.

questions:
1. what is the most brake you can apply, why?
2. what sort of things affect that?
3. how can you change those so you can brake harder/faster?
4. what can you do to make it so you don't need to use as much brake? (ie-- just go faster)

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

braking.

questions:
1. what is the most brake you can apply, why?
2. what sort of things affect that?
3. how can you change those so you can brake harder/faster?
4. what can you do to make it so you don't need to use as much brake? (ie-- just go faster)

Great stuff Alex, your 2nd in line as of now.

1. Addressing Fears
2. Braking 102, Slightly Beyond the Basics and Into the Unknown

[snot]

Cornering

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by snot

Cornering

That is a pretty big subject Snot... Your gunna have to narrow it down to a specific that is achievable to both me as a writing and everyone else as a reader/rider.

[snot]

Originally Posted by csmith12

That is a pretty big subject Snot... Your gunna have to narrow it down to a specific that is achievable to both me as a writing and everyone else as a reader/rider.

Playing off alex.s..
At the track: when do you brake, set-up, and roll on for the exit? How to carry our little bikes through since they are a little different than a GP bike.

[Sirref]

Suspension setup

I know nothing, therefore I do not know what information I lack and what to even ask

also an addition to cornering:
-quicker and smoother side to side transitions
-cornering smooth and fast at the same time
--smooth quick flicks
--smooth trailbraking to throttle transitions
how much throttle can you really use leaned over
feeling what the bike is doing beside you, what the bike should feel like leaned over at speed

[spc2125]

First track day for newbies

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Suspension setup

I know nothing, therefore I do not know what information I lack and what to even ask

also an addition to cornering:
-quicker and smoother side to side transitions
-cornering smooth and fast at the same time
--smooth quick flicks
--smooth trailbraking to throttle transitions
how much throttle can you really use leaned over
feeling what the bike is doing beside you, what the bike should feel like leaned over at speed

Suspension isn't gunna happen. I know enough to set it up for me and baseline a bike for someone else, but not enough to do a writeup on it. There are better threads already here.

Your other subjects... nice! Many are worthy of thier own thread.

Originally Posted by spc2125

First track day for newbies

Cool! But that subject has already been covered many times. Lemme see what I can add that would be of value that hasn't been covered.

[Sirref]

I expected as much, I'm probably going to have someone else help me out at the track for a baseline anyway so it's cool.

I'll be working on steering/corner entry mostly on sat so anything on that is appreciated as well if it comes out fri

[chemist]

Where do I go after the MSF course? Riders course at track? The advanced course through MSF? How do I take what I learned going 15-20mph and make that same course for 50+mph

Ok broad subject I guess but if you were to take a newbie post MSF…what would you say?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

........ Depending on the question, I will post a response or create a new thread as need to address any concerns. As many of you know, I have written articles on ninjette on a varitety of subject matter. Cornering, visual skills, human inputs, ect... ect... The sky's the limit and hold nothing back. PLEASE!!!!

I don't claim to know everything, so any and all input is always welcome.

Thanks ya'lls,

Chris

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by chemist

Where do I go after the MSF course? Riders course at track? The advanced course through MSF? How do I take what I learned going 15-20mph and make that same course for 50+mph

Ok broad subject I guess but if you were to take a newbie post MSF…what would you say?

If classroom instruction is your goal go through all of the advanced MSF courses. Then go to your local police department and see if you can take the course that they have motocops go through, if you can take it if not go to another police department until they eventually let you do it. In the name of safety they should let you, I've never tried personally. At this point you head to a track school, not a track day. I believe barber has a good program and there is probably one at road atlanta, you'll have to ask around. If CSS or YCRS is coming to a track near you then take their school as those are the two best advanced rider training programs in the US right now.

You'll spend some $$$ on this but there's nothing like the feeling of controlling your bike rather than letting it control you, which is something that you may not realize is happening until you take charge properly and learn what the bike is capable of.

[chemist]

Originally Posted by Sirref

If classroom instruction is your goal go through all of the advanced MSF courses. Then go to your local police department and see if you can take the course that they have motocops go through, if you can take it if not go to another police department until they eventually let you do it. In the name of safety they should let you, I've never tried personally. At this point you head to a track school, not a track day. I believe barber has a good program and there is probably one at road atlanta, you'll have to ask around. If CSS or YCRS is coming to a track near you then take their school as those are the two best advanced rider training programs in the US right now.

You'll spend some $$$ on this but there's nothing like the feeling of controlling your bike rather than letting it control you, which is something that you may not realize is happening until you take charge properly and learn what the bike is capable of.

Just what I was looking for! Thanks

[kdogg2077]

How to ride on unfamiliar back roads.

[Baron]

Why did the chicken cross the road full of bikers in the middle of rush hour?



On a serious note,
I'm planning on doing an intro to track course this summer if I can, so anything on Body positioning for Dummies would be helpful :P

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

How to ride on unfamiliar back roads.

Good question and we have covered a lot of this subject in other threads, so I feel this can be a short one. If not, let me know.

Have a look in my sig at the thread "Look through the corners." After the initial question was asked, we are now getting into the finer details of backroad riding. Riding down unfamiliar roads confidently is a combination of a few different skills.

Vision
To keep your vision well enough ahead of where the bike currently is. During track training, you might hear it referred to as the "2 step". On the street, you have to add in a glance farther up the road to build a margin of safety for braking, you should also visually factor in an escape route based on other road occupants or obstacles. To take it even further with visual skills, you can research the subject of "Vanishing Point". All this accept vanishing point is pretty much covered in the link in my sig. Also, a later turn in point can also give the rider more vision around the corner before committing to it. Good vision through any corner equals time and space. Having more time and space on the street is a very good thing.

Steering
Fighting turning in too early. This is a big one on the street because so many riders turn in to early. Resulting in running wide, poor throttle control, adding lean + throttle, the list goes on and on, or worse. To help with this problem, a later entry or "delayed apex" builds in a HUGE safety margin. 2 big benefits are, more time to set a safe entry speed, more time to choose a line. If you were to combine a late turn in, with the skill of actually turning the bike faster (quick flick), you are setting yourself up for success because you will be able to get back to the throttle quicker in the corner. To take this one step farther, add the hook turn into your box of skills. The hook turn is not just a track riding technique. Getting your head over and lower tends to tighten the bike's line mid corner while still allowing you to continue your roll on. Remember that, next time you feel the bike is running slightly wide.

Put them all together! Use 2 step (when the apex is seen), vanishing point (when the apex is not seen) a later turn in, a quick flick/decisive steering commitment, the hook turn and of course good throttle control to tame unfamiliar roads and ride with confidence instead of just guessing.

[alex.s]

i got a more advanced topic for ya when you get to it, mr champion

making and defending passes! was hoping you could cover a few different types of passes you can make, and how they effect your line down the road, and where you need to defend, or where you can try to retake after a pass has been made

e.g.: after a long straight, inside pass on late brake... runs you wide, you must defend after turn in just after apex (which is where you retake after switching back to a wider qualifier line once you see the pass has been made- go for maximum drive out of that corner and try to retake before the next) defense.... start your line further toward the inside to block... if they still take it, it will force them too wide and youll make the inside pass easier coming into or out of the apex

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by chemist

Just what I was looking for! Thanks

You can also do a Total Control class as an in between the MSF courses and track schools. Your profile shows TN, what is close... hmmm SportBike Track Time does a Novice school that many riders say is pretty good. You might want to check out the orgs that offer schools at Little Tally. You know... you could drive north to, Mid-Ohio does a semi-formal school at no extra charge. And as of right now, there is a pretty good chance I will be there coaching. Just come find me and we will hook you up. You could also attend California Superbike School, they are a bit more expensive, a little further out of the way in terms of track access but the reviews are second to none.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Good question and we have covered a lot of this subject in other threads, so I feel this can be a short one. If not, let me know.

Have a look in my sig at the thread "Look through the corners." After the initial question was asked, we are now getting into the finer details of backroad riding. Riding down unfamiliar roads confidently is a combination of a few different skills.

Vision
To keep your vision well enough ahead of where the bike currently is. During track training, you might hear it referred to as the "2 step". On the street, you have to add in a glance farther up the road to build a margin of safety for braking, you should also visually factor in an escape route based on other road occupants or obstacles. To take it even further with visual skills, you can research the subject of "Vanishing Point". All this accept vanishing point is pretty much covered in the link in my sig. Also, a later turn in point can also give the rider more vision around the corner before committing to it. Good vision through any corner equals time and space. Having more time and space on the street is a very good thing.

Steering
Fighting turning in too early. This is a big one on the street because so many riders turn in to early. Resulting in running wide, poor throttle control, adding lean + throttle, the list goes on and on, or worse. To help with this problem, a later entry or "delayed apex" builds in a HUGE safety margin. 2 big benefits are, more time to set a safe entry speed, more time to choose a line. If you were to combine a late turn in, with the skill of actually turning the bike faster (quick flick), you are setting yourself up for success because you will be able to get back to the throttle quicker in the corner. To take this one step farther, add the hook turn into your box of skills. The hook turn is not just a track riding technique. Getting your head over and lower tends to tighten the bike's line mid corner while still allowing you to continue your roll on. Remember that, next time you feel the bike is running slightly wide.

Put them all together! Use 2 step (when the apex is seen), vanishing point (when the apex is not seen) a later turn in, a quick flick/decisive steering commitment, the hook turn and of course good throttle control to tame unfamiliar roads and ride with confidence instead of just guessing.

Thanks! I'll chew on this advice while I wait for this PA weather to improve!

[csmith12]

@adouglas's question

I had written a whole big thing on this subject, then tossed it away to simply cut to chase about how the bike must earn the riders trust and the rider must learn to have trust in their own abilities.

So you want to defeat fear… let’s have a look.

Simple fact
Let’s start by addressing one simple fact that no one can escape, YOU ARE HUMAN. Humans WILL make a mistake from time to time and NOT succeed at everything on their first attempt. Addressing it is fairly simple really, just ACCEPT IT and move on to things we can do something about. Dwelling too long on those mistakes is not going to make anyone any better or net any gains. Any time spent in this area should be just a reflection and recollection of what happened and salvaging any value from the experience. This is normally time spent figuring out what “really” was the mistake and learning from it. Don’t make a 2nd mistake here and spend too much time trying to fix the past. You just can’t…

Overcoming the fear of performance riding is a system, a “product" (combination of skills) if you will. The complete answer is somewhat busy with many steps(@snot’s question) but when you’re just starting, it’s actually too simple, you have 3 main goals;

#1 confidence in your ability to steer the bike quickly and accurately
#2 confidence in your ability to set a good entry speed and complete a smooth and continuous throttle roll throughout the turn
#3 your ability to find a good turn in point and line that allows for a line that allows for a smooth and continuous throttle roll on

Your bike has the POTENTIAL for good traction and handling, your throttle is the primary tool to bringing that POTENTIAL into reality! With good throttle control, the bike will start to provide the rider with the feeling of stability, predictable traction and working suspension. Each rider feels this “product” come together differently and at different times, that is the human skill of it. Once these basic skills are at the riders acceptable level, the majority of the show stopping fears will somewhat subside a bit and the tangible evidence of leaning the bike over more will start to show through.

Once you have accomplished those 3 big things, you have taken a giant leap forward into getting more from yourself while on your bike! This takes time, there is no real reason to rush it either. Let your honed skills push your pace beyond your current perception of fast. Why? Because fast is relative, one riders fast is not the same as another’s. Any given race weekend can redefine what fast is, accept that it is a moving target.

Some might say "I am doing that". Sure, a rider may physically do those things, but... you will know for sure when it physically and mentally happens. All ya have to do is be honest with yourself. Grasping the idea of getting it right every now and then, is quite a bit different than consistently doing it.

The next step to overcoming the fear is being relaxed while on the bike and addressing how you see the world while riding. Somewhere out there is someone who rides the same bike as you, and they ride it faster, they lean it more and they brake deeper. The more stiff and ridged the rider is on the bike, the more you feel. One might think feeling everything is good, but it isn’t. Upon reviewing the technology, riding a sport bike at pace is a fairly violent affair when narrowed down to engine, shocks and wheels. You only want to feel the important parts, not everything! Ok, fine… what does this have to do with fear? Again, simple… if you don’t feel it, you shouldn’t fear of it. Example; To a rider who is not loose, those bumps or ripples in the middle of a corner are felt more intensely than an expert rider.

These are the basic things that separate the novice riders from the advanced riders. No one can pinpoint when it will happen for every rider but it DOES happen with enough patience and practice dedicated to the fundamentals that all riders fall back to at some point.

Addressing the mental aspects

Remember when you were really young?
You know… that age where you knew no better and accepted the outcome with a smile either way? It’s proof that failure is a mindset, an interpretation of an outcome. You have mostly been TRAINED to recognize and fear failure. If you haven’t failed at something, then you haven’t tried hard enough.

Turn a negative into a positive!
This is the meat and potatoes of what we are trying to accomplish here. The trick to it is find a way to make fear work in your behalf instead working against you.

Let’s look at 3 very real scenarios that have been seen posted on this very forum.

The over exited/anxious, track rider – To keep this rather simple, the rider could let the mind run wild with worry about every little detail. They fidget and clearly have the energy and mental capacity to burn. USE IT FOR GOOD! Double-check your bike, leave out no detail if you run outta stuff to do. Still time left? Watch videos and reviews of the track (or street route) you’re about ready to ride. Go out with a friend who will also be riding along. No friends?!?!?! MAKE ONE! Still got time? Don’t just do a track day, do a track school. When you get to the track, put yourself in a comfortable group and enlist the help of coaches. Basically, keep yourself busy doing positive stuff beforehand, and when you need the time to reflect on what you just learned, you’re doing that instead of turning a wrench or a similar chore.

The overly cautious rider – These riders over brake for turns and keep the lean angles at a minimum. While there is nothing really wrong with riding like this if that is what makes you happy and your reaching your goals. It also means, they have the required patience to work a skill at a pace where they can learn in a controlled manner. Move that brake marker 1 bike length and find a new specific marker for that new spot. You have the patience, put it to work! So you don’t pin it on the straight, so what? You now have the time to work on a comfortable tuck, throttle or not… you’re gunna go faster because you’re out of the wind. Basically, focus on what you can do, instead of what you’re not doing. Also, if you’re like me, this fear is also strongly linked to taking care of my responsibilities. What do you have to lose? I have found that if those concerns are handled ahead of time, even when I can’t personally do it, I can manage this fear in a better way.

The bolt turner - These riders are always finding a reason to turn a nut or bolt on their bike thinking it will make them a better rider. Instead, they should be focusing on turning the bolts in their head. Many riders go out ride, then come back and say the bike didn’t feel good or was sliding around a bit. So they spend precious time adjusting their setup thinking it will solve the problem. They go back out and all is well… cool! Then they go a faster and the problem just comes right back. When looking at a problem that a rider/bike combo is having, ALWAYS suspect the rider is causing the problem. It’s kinda of a scary notion to believe that many riders cause their own handling problems and wear themselves out while trying to ride harder, but it’s just the way it is. Again, what does this have to do with fear? It addresses the fear of the unknown. If you don’t have faith in how your bike is going to react, then the rider may be more reluctant to explorer the limits.

Enablers and Support - Working on fears is a tough battle, but it’s a bit easier with a helping hand along the way. Don’t go at it alone, get a friend or family member to tag along for encouragement and support. They also can deploy a secret weapon when needed, humans are competitive by nature. A simple fact of life is competition pushes many people beyond their normal comfort levels. Now I am not saying go out and ride a race while riding at 100% of your ability, I AM saying to get a trusted friend or coach to lead you around the track. A good coach can trigger the competitive instinct by riding just ever so slightly out of your reach, in the sweet spot. This sweet spot can subliminally push a rider without them even knowing or feeling it. And when you get back to the paddock, you might just have surprised yourself most of all.

And one more thing, celebrate every little victory… but always have the next goal already on tap. There is always something else to learn.

[Misti]

Great post and ideas and I look forward to reading all your articles on the various subjects! Can I borrow some of the article ideas I have a monthly column and am always in need of new ideas

Great stuff- going to put more time into reading this later tonight!

Misti

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Misti

Great post and ideas and I look forward to reading all your articles on the various subjects! Can I borrow some of the article ideas I have a monthly column and am always in need of new ideas

Great stuff- going to put more time into reading this later tonight!

Misti

Feel free Misti.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

making and defending passes! was hoping you could cover a few different types of passes you can make, and how they effect your line down the road, and where you need to defend, or where you can try to retake after a pass has been made

I will do this one, but it's gunna piss off the entire paddock. hahahahahaha

[snot]

I want to know how to brake going into the corner, when to dip and roll on. Without upsetting the suspension, in a corner....going in to hot. How do you keep from making it worst? I get the each time braking distance should increase... But where do you start?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

braking.

questions:
1. what is the most brake you can apply, why?
2. what sort of things affect that?
3. how can you change those so you can brake harder/faster?
4. what can you do to make it so you don't need to use as much brake? (ie-- just go faster)

Let's tackle this one and try to keep it kinda short and sweet because I believe you already know most of this already.

Question 1: what is the most brake you can apply, why?
The most brake that can be applied is the amount just before it locks the front wheel. Or..... causes other corner entry issues, with the bike or the rider. We have seen riders lift the rear/slide going into corners, is that the smoothest way? We know holding on the bars with stiff hands/arms is a negative thing, so a riders max braking is limited to their ability to lock on with the lower body. And available traction must also be a factor, you simply can't brake as hard in lower traction situations.

Question 2: what sort of things affect that?
Oh man... the list of things that affect braking is really long, here are a few of the more important ones; your turn in point, your time spent downshifting (blipping), how much lean angle do you need. Out of the 11 things affect by your turn in point, when the brakes go on and off are really big ones. Also, riders need to ensure they have an adequate suspension setup that will prevent the forks from bottoming out. Bike setup will play a role, a better braking system install on your bike will simply stop the bike faster. And let's not forget about the riders tolerance for the forces that are felt when the lever is pulled really hard, which is also related to body position.

Question 3: how can you change those so you can brake harder/faster?
As I posted in another thread on braking skills, your first job is to find a workable turn in point, entry speed and line. Without these already in place for the corner, pushing the envelope to braking in a consistent way is all but impossible. If your turn in point is constantly moving, your brake release will be just as chopped up. Working on one before the other can be an exercise in frustration.

Get your bum back off the tank, anchor yourself firmly, stay loose as possible and create stability. When braking SUPER hard, do you think the bike is even more twitchy if the rider were to move their bum off while on the brakes? You betcha! Get off the bike while on the throttle, so it doesn't create wiggle or instability when nearly all your attention is spent on vision, setting a good entry speed and braking hard. A rider doesn't have to spend time addressing a problem that is simply not there.

Here is a sneak peak into "Braking 102". We know to not just hammer the front brake, it should be loaded up first. How do we do that? Do we just chop the throttle and slowly apply the brake to load it, then hit it hard? Nope... "practice your roll off as much as your roll on". Rolling off the throttle will put a fair amount of weight on the front (bike setup dependant). On many bikes, this is enough to load the front enough to be more aggressive with the brake right from the start! There are many ways to set up a bike's suspension. If this is your riding style, then alert your suspension tech so the bike is optimized to be ridden this way. There is a major difference in the between my 250 and my r6 to support this. The major difference is in the engine braking between the two bikes. Since the r6 doesn't engine brake as hard, the front end is a bit softer. Either way, I always trail off the brake lever to finalize entry speed. This will most likely be your first experience with the bike pogoing. That is a sign that something is up and needs to be smoothed out.

There is more... but let's create/reuse another thread to go further into details because @snot just ask about this as well.

Question 4: what can you do to make it so you don't need to use as much brake? (ie-- just go faster)
Corner entry speed is largely limited by one main factor. How quickly you can get the bike turned and online. In a game of time and space counted down to milliseconds, even turning the bike has to be completed quickly. It's simple math at work here, it takes track space to steer slowly, it takes time on the lap timer to steer slowly because we normally don't turn while still on the throttle. If you're not going to be on the throttle, someone else will git-r-done faster and WILL BE on the throttle. And of course traction must be factored in, there IS a maximum speed for your bike/rider/tire/tarmac combo and it's your goal to find it. Again, your turn in point is a big deal here. Turn in to early, and you can't stay on the gas, turn in to late and you missed the chance a early, clean roll on, which will cost your corner exit drive. And you know no talk about corner speed is complete without the mention of vision. imho, riders who have come to terms with their vision and mentally processing that information, normally can enter a corner smoother and faster, add in the throttle roll and you got a recipe for a great entry, mid corner and exit drive.

this turned out longer than I thought it would

OH! And never lose sight of the entire point of braking in the first place. To get your turn entry speed perfect.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by spc2125

First track day for newbies

Hmmm... the first track day for riders can be vary quite a bit. For example, I did a race school on my first track day. What direction would you like me to take? An average track day, an average track school day? There are really laid back tracks, there are some tracks that are sticklers for the rules. Something else?

Lemme know

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

How about the Rumsfeld effect?

There are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. It messes with your head.

This is what keeps me from getting aggressive enough when cornering, braking really hard, etc. Getting past it seems impossible. It's a huge barrier.

I was there to watch you... keep doing what you're doing, baby steps kinda like putting just a toe in the water to test the temp.

Reach for the stars, but keep one foot on the ground yo!

Just promise me you will go see the suspension tech.

[Sirref]

Awww sheeiiit it would seem that I'm in for a rain day (thank god for rain race tires and free trackside tire mounting/balancing )

new topic: rain riding at track pace, aka more on how to be smooth on the bike

[cbinker]

can you eat a banana in one bite?