Rossi-Marquez Battle

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jkv45

EDIT: I think we will find that Marquez' front brake lever was bumped during contact. His on-board telemetry should show if it was the case, but I've not heard one way or the other. He went down pretty fast, which makes me think it did.

Very unlikely to be direct contact, the circled part is a brake guard to prevent such things. It's REQUIRED to be on every bike on the grid.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by jkv45

EDIT: I think we will find that Marquez' front brake lever was bumped during contact. His on-board telemetry should show if it was the case, but I've not heard one way or the other. He went down pretty fast, which makes me think it did.

I think that front brake pressure is definitely what put the bike on the ground. But it was indirectly caused by the body/leg contact, and the brake pressure must have come from Marquez's right hand. Not directly pressed, even accidentally or unintentionally, from Rossi's foot or leg.

[Panda]

It was a dive!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Very unlikely to be direct contact, the circled part is a brake guard to prevent such things. It's REQUIRED to be on every bike on the grid.

Check this out:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117740

[Alex]

Originally Posted by spooph

This is exactly what Lorenzo needs to regain some fanbase... Everybody likes a clean hero and with his reputation....

Lorenzo might have had a chance of coming off better in this, but it sure looks like he ended up making a mess of it as well. His comparative fanbase is so weak he is even boo'd off the podium in a race he takes second in, with nothing to do with 3rd/4th place conflict. Listening to the post-race press conference, Pedrosa came off as the only adult in the room; Lorenzo as a whiny child instead. It's worth the 24 min if people have a motogp video pass.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by Alex

Lorenzo might have had a chance of coming off better in this, but it sure looks like he ended up making a mess of it as well. His comparative fanbase is so weak he is even boo'd off the podium in a race he takes second in, with nothing to do with 3rd/4th place conflict. Listening to the post-race press conference, Pedrosa came off as the only adult in the room; Lorenzo as a whiny child instead. It's worth the 24 min if people have a motogp video pass.

Yup, Lorenzo continuously dug himself a hole for 24 minutes.

Just a thought, Nicky Hayden and Marc Marquez should swap bikes for Valencia!

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Very unlikely to be direct contact, the circled part is a brake guard to prevent such things. It's REQUIRED to be on every bike on the grid.

I'm familiar with that guard, but the manner in which Marquez went down suggested to me that the brake locked up for some reason.

[csmith12]

I can't watch all the interviews and press on this... too much like nascar. hahahahahah Rossi deserves his 3 point sanction for being sooooo far off the race line trying to fend off the pressure of another racer, starting from the back of the grid is a bit much though. One or the other but not both imho. I personally believe MM was going to crash out riding like that anyway, just a matter of time before it was him or rossi.

[jkv45]

Latest ruling from the FIM appeal -

http://www.cyclenews.com/710/40601/R...i-Penalty.aspx

[Alex]

Originally Posted by csmith12

hahahahahah Rossi deserves his 3 point sanction for being sooooo far off the race line trying to fend off the pressure of another racer, starting from the back of the grid is a bit much though. One or the other but not both imho.

Those are really the same thing, though. The 3 penalty points determine the penalty, as he had now reached 4 penalty points. If they wanted to give a lesser penalty, it would have to have been less than 3 points (effectively no penalty, as he hadn't reached 4 yet), or given an alternate penalty that had nothing to do with the points system.

Here are how the penalty points work:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/212...ints-list.html

Race Direction can impose between 1 and 10 points for each infringement. Points accumulate with automatic sanctions kicking in once a rider reaches 4 points (start next race from last place), 7 points (start next race from pit lane) and 10 points (disqualification from next race).

Penalty points are in no way linked to riders' championship points.

Additional punishments available to Race Direction include fines, ride through, grid or time penalties, suspension, disqualification or exclusion...

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Take a closer look at the forks.
They tell you when each was braking or accelerating.

Haven't watched the race yet or heard any of the comments because i was out of town. But I did look at the clip in the OP, without sound, frame by frame. It's like the Zapruder film.

Here's what I saw from that angle:

Rossi makes the move to pass inside. By 0:04 they're side-by-side and Marquez has more speed, but Rossi is ahead slightly and has the inside line. The lines are different and converging. Marc is trying to get up the track and re-pass on the outside, but Rossi isn't having it and is allowing his bike to drift.

At 0:05 Rossi looks over at Marquez and is holding his line. He is not on the power but probably not braking (look at the forks), whereas Marquez is on the gas and starting to accelerate. It looks to me as if he was expecting Rossi to do the same, but 46 isn't.

Rossi is holding his line, so Marquez checks up and falls back slightly.

Between 0:05 and 0:06 Rossi still isn't accelerating and is looking at Marquez, not the track. It looks to me like he's unsure what Marc is doing. He sees that Marc has checked up, so he turns his head to look forward.

At 0:06 Marquez then tightens his line and gets back on the power, heading straight for Rossi.

Rossi sees this out of the corner of his eye and turns his head back to look at Marc again. Looks like he hesitated to me. As Marc converges with him, he pushes Marquez off with his knee and accelerates away immediately (again, look at the forks... the moment the knee hits Marc, they extend).



I don't think Rossi was trying to make Marquez crash. By the time Rossi turned to look, Marc was already making the move. It was going to end in a collision anyway.

I think he was pushing Marc out to keep him from re-passing, the kid tried anyway, and Rossi acted inappropriately to avoid a collision that would have taken them both down.

The overall impression I got was that Rossi was trying to figure out what Marc was doing, hesitated, and when contact was made he got the hell out of there.

So bottom line: Shared responsibility. Rossi looked like he was second-guessing another rider's intent rather than riding his own race. He did not brake-check Marc or change his line, but he was not focused on his own ride and as a result, not on the power when he should have been. My $0.02: Rossi should have gotten on the gas as he normally would.

Mark looked like he was expecting Rossi to get on the power, and trying to get away with a sketchy, overly aggressive move. He did alter his line and headed for Rossi. My $0.02: Once Marc checked up he should not have lunged forward again.

Don't forget that Marc is no stranger to aggressive bumping that changes race outcomes in his favor.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Latest ruling from the FIM appeal -

http://www.cyclenews.com/710/40601/R...i-Penalty.aspx

That was released yesterday very soon after the race. That appeal process is very quick (by the time Lin Jarvis had made the team statement, it was already complete).

I think some people are wondering if final means final, and that comes down less to the rulebook and more to the political will and choices of Dorna.

[Panda]

For Rossi to win -

- Lorenzo finishes 1st:Rossi 2nd
- L2:R3
- L3:R6
- L4:R9
- L5:R12

Lorenzo has never finished lower than 5th when he finishes.

Also interesting side note. If Rossi loses the championship this will be the first time this season he will not be the points leader.

[alex.s]

uh i'm sorry but MM could have easily taken the pass and gone for the inside after the third time. blocking is part of racing. MM was deliberately slowing vale when he was in front. and kept getting back in front just to slow vale down. MM chose to try to disregard a legit pass and so rossi blocked after the pass when MM was trying to get back in front in order to slow vale down.

MM plays dirty and then cries to mommy when the other kids use the same tricks.

[ninjamunky85]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[cuz]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Link to original page on YouTube.

Hehe nice

[jkv45]

Pretty funny! That explains everything.

Look at all of frame :05 (a lot happens during the 1 second between 5 and 6) and see if it doesn't look like Rossi's foot is off the peg and close to the end of Marquez' handlebar.

From that, it looks like Rossi's foot could have contacted the end of the bar and made it turn in abruptly.

[adouglas]

What Rossi said about that (and it makes sense to me... had he actually kicked Marc you would have seen his body move because Newton).

What I see in the video is Marc, having checked up slightly, then lunges forward into Rossi, who pushes out with his knee. If the foot came off it's as a result of the contact, not prior to it.

Marc Marquez said you took your leg off and kicked him, was it a case of red mist?
“No Marquez knows that is not true, because it is very clear from the image, especially from the helicopter that I don’t want to make him crash. I just want to make him lose time and go out of the line and slow down because also this time, a lot worse than in Australia, he make his dirty game no? When I go wide, wide, wide, I slow down, we almost stop and I look at him to say, “F**K, what the f**k are you doing?”

After we touch and he touched with his handlebar on the right on my leg, and I lose the foot from the foot peg, but if you look at the image from the helicopter it is clear that when I lose the foot from the footrest Marquez had already crashed. So I don’t want to kick him. Also if you give a kick to a MotoGP™ bike, it don’t crash. It is not that you kick the bike; it is very heavy, like this, and he crash. But unfortunately we touched; he wanted to turn because I go very wide and I fell his handlebar on my leg her, on my thigh and I lose the leg on the foot peg. It is like this.”

Tell me you didn't have Rossi's voice in your head when you read that.

[subxero]

https://www.facebook.com/LojaRS1/vid...nch_main_video

[allanoue]

He does admit to running him off the track.

Knee on handle bar. Who is to say why his foot came off the pegs? Knocked off by the bar or he pulled his knee up to push the bar and knock him down.

To say he could not do that is not true, and makes me not believe Rossi's story.

Riding tip:
Stay light on the bars everyone. It does not take much input to control your bike.

[allanoue]

Rossi's whining about MM's games in Oz ignores the fact that MM's games ended with a win for MM.

MM's "integrity" insulted, was showing Rossi what games really are, and in the commission's ruling, his behavior, while questionable, was not against race rules.

Rossi running wide on MM was against race rules.

MM acted like a kid but Rossi

[thisisbenji]

https://motomatters.com/analysis/201...oes_who_h.html


/thread.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

https://motomatters.com/analysis/201...oes_who_h.html


/thread.

I too was about to link it, its really all the read you need. Anything else is just fanboy conspiracy.

[Alex]

I think it's a good write-up as well. David's piece makes sense to me. It is much more nuanced and balanced than some of his initial comments were on his twitter feed.

A minor footnote about the Lorenzo booing. The media are reporting that he was booed the podium celebration, but haven't reported why. This part wasn't shown on the TV feed. Check out 40 seconds in, when he is whining and giving a thumbs down when Rossi is getting his 3rd place trophy. The crowd reacts: https://www.facebook.com/JurcekDolen...c_location=ufi

[thisisbenji]

Lorenzo somehow managed to turn a situation that doesn't concern him into a negative for himself. It's amazing really..... All dude had to do is stay out of it and he would have gained fans. Instead he most likely lost fans.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

https://motomatters.com/analysis/201...oes_who_h.html


/thread.

What an excellent article! Thanks for sharing.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

Lorenzo somehow managed to turn a situation that doesn't concern him into a negative for himself. It's amazing really..... All dude had to do is stay out of it and he would have gained fans. Instead he most likely lost fans.

I like Lorenzo for his skill on a bike, can do what seemingly NO ONE else can do in terms of absolutely perfect consistent relentless laps in the same way Marquez can do what seemingly no one can in terms of riding over the limit - BUT - he may be his own WORST PR guy and really should have taken some notes from Dani.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

....but motocross still has it on excitement! As much as I like road racing and Motogp, Supercross > MotoGP for entertainment value. Just because somethings expensive doesn't mean it's better.

Gotta disagree with you on that one. Motocross/Supercross does nothing for me. I guess it just feels too fake to me. Racing dirt bikes inide an arena that two days ago was a basketball court on these perfectly set up and plowed dirt tracks. No real obstacles except for the whoops and jumps. No hills, no trees, no creeks or rocks. I just don't get it.

It does seem to be the most popular form of motorcycle racing in the U.S. though. I wish road racing was half as popular. When it comes to dirt I'd much rather watch hard enduro or even trials. That's much more interesting to me. There is almost no following for either of those over here though. Most people would have no idea who Grahm Jarvis, or Johnny Walker, of Geoff Aaron is.

Also not saying that because its more expensive that that makes it better. Just that when you are racing at the highest level you should leave the childish antics in the pits.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

Lorenzo somehow managed to turn a situation that doesn't concern him into a negative for himself. It's amazing really..... All dude had to do is stay out of it and he would have gained fans. Instead he most likely lost fans.

Rossi is a teammate, but Marquez is a countryman.

He sided with his countryman.

[jkv45]

A release from Repsol Honda -

Dani Pedrosa achieved a great victory today in the Malaysian Grand Prix -a win that was unfortunately overshadowed by the unacceptable and unsportsmanlike conduct of Valentino Rossi against Repsol Honda Team rider, Marc Marquez. On the seventh lap of the race, with Marquez and Rossi immersed in a battle for third place that involved several overtaking moves between the two, the Italian -in an absolutely intentional action- dealt an unsportsmanlike kick to the Repsol Honda rider that knocked him to the ground. Although Marquez was fortunately able to escape unharmed from the attack, for Repsol the conduct of Rossi is absolutely unacceptable because it endangered -in a premeditated and unsportsmanlike manner- the safety of the Repsol Honda team rider. Repsol consider this an unsportsmanlike act incompatible with the values of sport and competition.

Repsol are deeply saddened that situations like that which occurred today in Sepang exist, especially as the company feel proud of sporting values: Companionship, competitive spirit and commitment from riders. Without these values, it would not make sense for Repsol to participate in the sport as a sponsor.

Repsol also call for a clear and strong regulation in the interest of the safety and physical integrity of the riders, which punishes behaviour like that seen today clearly and decisively.

The positive thing about this race was the great performance of Dani Pedrosa, who gradually pulled away from his rivals to score his second win of the season -following that achieved in Japan two weeks ago.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Gotta disagree with you on that one. Motocross/Supercross does nothing for me. I guess it just feels too fake to me. Racing dirt bikes inide an arena that two days ago was a basketball court on these perfectly set up and plowed dirt tracks. No real obstacles except for the whoops and jumps. No hills, no trees, no creeks or rocks. I just don't get it.

It does seem to be the most popular form of motorcycle racing in the U.S. though. I wish road racing was half as popular. When it comes to dirt I'd much rather watch hard enduro or even trials. That's much more interesting to me. There is almost no following for either of those over here though. Most people would have no idea who Grahm Jarvis, or Johnny Walker, of Geoff Aaron is.

Also not saying that because its more expensive that that makes it better. Just that when you are racing at the highest level you should leave the childish antics in the pits.

The cool thing about supercross is it's a good spectator sport, you can see the whole track. When you watch MotoGP (at the race) you find yourself watching the screen half the time (if your lucky to have a screen by your seat). It's really hard to follow the action when your at the event for a road race.

Originally Posted by jkv45

Rossi is a teammate, but Marquez is a countryman.

He sided with his countryman.

The only thing is Marc is from Catalonia and Jorge is from Spain. I'm not sure the two like each other that much right now. Catalonia is trying to become it's own country.

[Panda]

Dani is the only one of the top 4 riders that came out of this not looking like a douche.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by jkv45

A release from Repsol Honda -

I saw this yesterday too... What a joke!

Funny how it never was an issue when MM was the one taking the crazy risks and endangering other riders. But when their guy is the one getting taken out suddenly it's OMG we're not sure that we want to be associated with such a barbaric sport.

Go ahead and leave I say. They'd only be hurting their own team. Though I'm guessing that there's a hundred other companies that would gladly take their place given the exposure that Repsol has gotten over the years because of their sponsorship.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by jkv45

A release from Repsol Honda -

Dani Pedrosa achieved a great victory today in the Malaysian Grand Prix -a win that was unfortunately overshadowed by the unacceptable and unsportsmanlike conduct of Valentino Rossi against Repsol Honda Team rider, Marc Marquez. On the seventh lap of the race, with Marquez and Rossi immersed in a battle for third place that involved several overtaking moves between the two, the Italian -in an absolutely intentional action- dealt an unsportsmanlike kick to the Repsol Honda rider that knocked him to the ground. Although Marquez was fortunately able to escape unharmed from the attack, for Repsol the conduct of Rossi is absolutely unacceptable because it endangered -in a premeditated and unsportsmanlike manner- the safety of the Repsol Honda team rider. Repsol consider this an unsportsmanlike act incompatible with the values of sport and competition.

Repsol are deeply saddened that situations like that which occurred today in Sepang exist, especially as the company feel proud of sporting values: Companionship, competitive spirit and commitment from riders. Without these values, it would not make sense for Repsol to participate in the sport as a sponsor.

Repsol also call for a clear and strong regulation in the interest of the safety and physical integrity of the riders, which punishes behaviour like that seen today clearly and decisively.

The positive thing about this race was the great performance of Dani Pedrosa, who gradually pulled away from his rivals to score his second win of the season -following that achieved in Japan two weeks ago.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I saw this yesterday too... What a joke!

Funny how it never was an issue when MM was the one taking the crazy risks and endangering other riders. But when their guy is the one getting taken out suddenly it's OMG we're not sure that we want to be associated with such a barbaric sport.

Go ahead and leave I say. They'd only be hurting their own team. Though I'm guessing that there's a hundred other companies that would gladly take their place given the exposure that Repsol has gotten over the years because of their sponsorship.

Welcome to Politics 101. When you do it :No big deal but if it is done to you: Worst atrocity ever

[Alex]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[thisisbenji]

OMG so good!

[jkv45]

More fun -

http://www.motorcycle.com/top10/top-...ng-motogp.html

[Alex]

Apparently the appeal issue is back on the table.

http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/new...ash-at-sepang/

Separate from the appeal to the FIM stewards which was considered and rejected the day of the race. They are supposed to rule by Nov 6th.

[Motofool]

Link to original page on YouTube.