Rear tire skid/lock during a downhill left turn.

[edxmon]

Coming home from the DMV, right after turning in my MSF endorsment there is an S-curve. The way I was going the first part of it is uphil and it turns downhill right at the inflection point (second part of the S). Being pretty exceited, added to the fact that a minivan was riding my arse I went into the second part (downhill) of the curve too fast. I use what I think is a little rear brake and start to feel the rear wobble or fishtail.

What surprised me during and after is that I was surprisingly calm (not to toot my own horn :P). Now what I did next may not have been the best but it seemed to have worked:

Put the clutch into the friction zone to take a bit of power from the rear wheel and released the rear brake as I slowly released the clutch to get full power back to the rearwheel. The frequency of the wrobble went up but as I rolled on the throttle and finished the turn the bike stabilized into the straight away.

What made it a little bit scary is that there was a broken down car ron the side of the road, had it not been there I would have taken the turn a little wider and maybe kept from using the rear brake at all.

All in all, I think having the MSF course fresh under my belt may have saved me from a spill.
God bless.

[Malicious Logic]

Good to hear you took the MSF but I don't see how you really followed any of it's teachings in this situation unless your course was different from mine. You braked mid-turn which they tell you not to do since they want you to have your entry speed set before you hit the turn so you can throttle through. Also, you said it locked and yet you let off the rear brake even though they teach you not to. Lastly, they teach you to ride your own ride and if someone is tail gating you, increase your following distance from the vehicle infront of you and if possible, let them pass. Better to let them go in a hurry then go down trying to ride how they want you to. What did you follow from their teachings?

A week or two ago, I went out on some mild twisties with a friend and found myself too hot into a turn for my comfort level (I'm sure the ninjette could've eaten it no prob). Anyways, I braked and while I didn't lock anything up, it definitely gave me a sick feeling and I knew that's not what I should've done. I read something on here recently that I've tried to apply to my riding and so far, it's worked for the best and makes things feel much better. I usually do better with my entry speed now but if I do find myself going a bit too fast, I just trust the bike and lean more. Chances are, the bike still has plenty more room to lean and can handle anything you're hitting on city streets.


Not being a dick or anything like that so hope I don't come off like that. Just my opinion.

[Motofool]

If going fast enough, the inertia of transferring from uphill onto downhill may have lighten the rear wheel enough to loose grip due to the effort of light braking for an instant.

Don't let tailgaters rush you; if you are going to fall, don't you want the guy following to be moving 10 mph slower?

Don't enter curves which end you can't see at any speed higher than you are able to brake safely.

Whenever in doubt about stability, gas it out!

[edxmon]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Good to hear you took the MSF but I don't see how you really followed any of it's teachings in this situation unless your course was different from mine. You braked mid-turn which they tell you not to do since they want you to have your entry speed set before you hit the turn so you can throttle through. Also, you said it locked and yet you let off the rear brake even though they teach you not to. Lastly, they teach you to ride your own ride and if someone is tail gating you, increase your following distance from the vehicle infront of you and if possible, let them pass. Better to let them go in a hurry then go down trying to ride how they want you to. What did you follow from their teachings?

A week or two ago, I went out on some mild twisties with a friend and found myself too hot into a turn for my comfort level (I'm sure the ninjette could've eaten it no prob). Anyways, I braked and while I didn't lock anything up, it definitely gave me a sick feeling and I knew that's not what I should've done. I read something on here recently that I've tried to apply to my riding and so far, it's worked for the best and makes things feel much better. I usually do better with my entry speed now but if I do find myself going a bit too fast, I just trust the bike and lean more. Chances are, the bike still has plenty more room to lean and can handle anything you're hitting on city streets.


Not being a dick or anything like that so hope I don't come off like that. Just my opinion.

They didn't tell us NEVER to brake in a turn because that would be impossible, they taugh us that IF possible straighten the bike before braking but they also expressly said that it's not ALWAYS possible, as it was in this case. As I mentioned there was a car on the side of the road, on a two way two lane road. I had no room to straighten and THEN brake.

I never said I followed the teachings (show me where I did), and in this case I certainly didn't, this course saved me because I was confident to take the steps I did in a safe and controlled maner, instead of panicking. I was able to take the course on my own bike and pushed my comfort and controll of it to another level.

I try to be a safe rider, but like they ALSO taught in my course, what they teach you is in a controlled IDEAL condition which vary rarely if ever happens outside of that course, and as I know in this case it didn't. Should I have slowed down before the turn? Yes, now I know, should I have let the van rush me? No, I know. Like they ALSO taught us, incidents are naver caused by a single thing, it's always a chain of events. I was elated and a bit too excited, I had a tailgater, I didn't slow down: 3 things if not more caused this.

In the end I was able to know that it was within my ability, and the bike's to come out of this situation by doing what I did, instead of deciding to ditch the bike before I went into the car on the side.

tldr; I didn't have an ideal environtment, thus I didn't take the ideal approach, like I would have during the MSF course. Do I still think the MSF possibly save me some skin and or plastic? Yes.

[Toly]

When going downhill, your weight shifts forward... so when you brake, the rear wheel will be lighter than what you practiced on level surface, and it will lose traction much easier.

Good to know you'er not taking MSF teaching as dogma - if you need to brake in a turn, just do it. Looks like you did very well, and appear to have a smooth and natural feel for the bike. Also, make sure to look not at the broken down car on the side, but away from it... you go where you look. Great job, man!

[edxmon]

Originally Posted by Toly

When going downhill, your weight shifts forward... so when you brake, the rear wheel will be lighter than what you practiced on level surface, and it will lose traction much easier.

Good to know you'er not taking MSF teaching as dogma - if you need to brake in a turn, just do it. Looks like you did very well, and appear to have a smooth and natural feel for the bike. Also, make sure to look not at the broken down car on the side, but away from it... you go where you look. Great job, man!

I think you are absolutely right, the rear locked so easily. When we did emergency braking at the range I applied WAY more pressure on it and it didn't lock. The weight shift would explain it.

Also, I have to admit that I did fixate on the car for a second and is probably another thing that added to this whole ordeal.

When I signed up for the MSF course people kept saying I shouldn't take my own bike, incase I dropped it. Now, after the fact, I am so glad I did. Learning all those techniques is really great but I feel so much more confident having done it on my own bike, it really made me get to know my bike.

I would really recomend taking your own bike, for any one who is going to take the BRC in the future.

[n4mwd]

The MSF course I took taught us to ride the bike to a stop if the rear brake locked. Otherwise, you could high side if you release the brake at the wrong point.

The point to remember is that you need more front brake and less back brake. A locked rear brake is actually a pretty dangerous thing. In addition to causing high sides on the straightaway, it can also cause your rear to slide out on turns.

It sounds like you need more experience, so use that as an excuse to go riding some more.

[edxmon]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The MSF course I took taught us to ride the bike to a stop if the rear brake locked. Otherwise, you could high side if you release the brake at the wrong point.

The point to remember is that you need more front brake and less back brake. A locked rear brake is actually a pretty dangerous thing. In addition to causing high sides on the straightaway, it can also cause your rear to slide out on turns.

It sounds like you need more experience, so use that as an excuse to go riding some more.

I absolutely need more experience, who doesn't?

[alex.s]

dont bother with rear brake when the rear wheel doesn't have any traction

[allanoue]

this guy is good at slowing down fast

[csmith12]

Steep downhill turns are fundamentally different than uphill and level turns. Knowing that the bike needs a 40%/60% weight distribution for the best possible cornering, you can begin to figure out how to approach and complete the turn. Logically, going downhill will put more weight on the front. What can you do to help the bike "work as it was designed"?

Throttle control?
Entry speed?
Turn in point?
Seating position?

[kdogg2077]

Just a little maintenance throttle is good in a downhill. Not enough gas to accelerate. Just enough to shift weight to the rear wheel.

If you just got your MSF you might want to hold off on braking in a turn. It's doable but difficult. Especially using your rear brake in a turn.

[EsrTek]

MSF is great and all, but it's just a starting point...Plus each MSF instructor can vary in suggestions.
Highly suggest you get books like Total Control and take some of their courses.

Other than that sounds like you did good!

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Steep downhill turns are fundamentally different than uphill and level turns. Knowing that the bike needs a 40%/60% weight distribution for the best possible cornering, you can begin to figure out how to approach and complete the turn. Logically, going downhill will put more weight on the front. What can you do to help the bike "work as it was designed"?

Throttle control?
Entry speed?
Turn in point?
Seating position?

more throttle
lower entry speed to adjust for more throttle
turn in point same since the goal is to get on throttle sooner already
sit farther back if you can, I like to sit pretty far back in the saddle so I don't think I could comfortably move any farther back

most importantly though, moar throttle!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

more throttle yes!
lower entry speed to adjust for more throttle yes!
turn in point same since the goal is to get on throttle sooner already yes!, yes later turn in
sit farther back if you can, yes!, no humping the tanks

[Roark]

Just so it's clear.. 2012 was OP post date

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Roark

Just so it's clear.. 2012 was OP post date

silly roark, there wasn't a marquez in motogp in 2012

discussion still has merit at least

[chemist]

no humping the tanks took a newbie like myself FOREVER to figure out. That little detail just doesn't seem out there in the public. In the MSF course I was told to grip the tank obviously I am sure to help reduce weight on my hands. So, when I started on a sportsbike I hugged that sucka After reading twist of the wrist and noting the support the riders got from the rear cowl I had a "aha" moment and started to schooc back in my seat and I noticed it was much easier to relax my hands and legs and keep out of the wind better!! That and my size 45 shoe now hits the exhaust like I hear others complain about so it is all falling together

[crazymadbastard]

Originally Posted by Roark

Just so it's clear.. 2012 was OP post date

Braking is sooooooo 2012.

I never get bored reading about close calls.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by crazymadbastard

Braking is sooooooo 2012.

You don't even know how true that statment is.

["A"]

Brakes, who needs them; they only slow you down..
---Snuff Smith--