Official 2013 Ninja 300 (and 250) Thread

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Minikin_Jo

I was looking for a 400 when I was shopping for a bike and the salesman looked at me weird and said there was no such thing. I didn't realize I was looking at the Kawi UK site when I looked online.

I just am not understanding the change from a 250 to a 300...is there a side by side comparison chart somewhere, to compare to the 2012?

You get more power, a slipper clutch, fuel injection, digital gauges, a eco mode sensor, some FCC clutch control BS, option of ABS, one fake headlight, and lower revs

[Surferboy120]

I think one thing that is interesting to the ones that are willing which I am not is that the 300 isn't a bored out 250 engine. They increased the CC with a longer stroke and lighter parts and cylinder head. The intake valves are larger as well and compression was dropped.

This tells me there is more power to be had by increasing compression and upping the bore size. I wouldnt entertain the build unless I popped the motor one day but I think this motor should give up power a little easier than the 250 if built.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Buy one!!! then make your '09 track only!!!!

(and let me ride both bikes in the name of "science" )

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by Heed

it was a tiny yamaha tw200

and im a small guy (135 lbs)

I took the MSF on a tw200, to me it felt larger than the 250. Although I'm sure it was lighter.

I'm also 135 lbs.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by seanshawnS

I will sit on one when it arrives at my local dealer.. but I can't imagine buying it. Any relevance to a F.C.C clutch? Not really sure what that is as compared to what's already on my 2012 ninja.

I know the aftermarket slippers are pretty cool.. They say the factory ones not so much

As to whats on your 2012, you dont have one

Lets say your doing 50mph down the road, pull in your clutch, bang it down to 1st and pop the clutch out. Your gonna lock up the rear wheel.....
With a slipper, you wont!

Good for new riders saftey..... Will it teach you good clutch control? Probably not.. I know it makes an older rider lazy on the clutch.. You dont have to worry about it, pop it, and let the slipper sort it out..

[thisisbenji]

I skipped my back wheel a few times going into some turns when I first got my 250... they never mentioned anything about blipping the throttle at the MSF class. I'm not even sure they covered downshifting.

[thurt88]

I love it and with FI im sold. Matter of fact, I just put my 250 on CL.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

one fake headlight

watch the videos. One head light for low beam. Both for high beam.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by thurt88

I love it and with FI im sold. Matter of fact, I just put my 250 on CL.

Same here

[Alex]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

watch the videos. One head light for low beam. Both for high beam.

Similar to many other 2-headlight bikes. I get the reasoning, but I'm still not a fan of that design. I prefer the more symmetrical designs. My K16 has 3 lights; the center one is the main beam, and there is one on each side that both come on when the brights are turned on.

[choneofakind]

Solution: dual bi-xenon retrofit questionably legal but hey...

I'm also a fan of the asymmetrical transformer look when people do a bi-xenon projector on one side, and then keep the stock halogen high beam on the other side. I think that looks kinda cool.

At least this bike has the marker lights in the top corners of both headlights. That's a step in the right direction for making the bike obviously a bike for oncoming traffic.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by adouglas

- If you compress it a whole lot it heats up a whole lot. The more and faster you compress, the hotter it gets. This is how diesel engines work. They don't have spark plugs. They also have huge compression ratios. (More compression, more heat).

- If you put fuel that's easy to ignite into a high-compression engine, it could ignite before you want it to. Why? See above. This is called detonation, or ping, or knock. It is a Bad Thing and can damage your engine.

- High horsepower engines often make their power (in part) through higher compression. More fuel/air in the cylinder, more horsepower. So they need high-octane (harder to ignite) fuel. At low revs it doesn't make a difference, but at high revs it does. (Repeat after me: the more/faster you compress air, the hotter it gets.)

- A low-compression engine is designed for low-octane fuel. It never compresses the charge enough to cause detonation.

- So the extra money you're spending is WASTED. High-octane gas doesn't have "more power" or any such nonsense. It is simply harder to ignite, so therefore suited for (and required by) high-compression engines.

What I don't understand is why the Ninja 250 runs fine on regular 87 octane and has a high compression ratio (12.4:1). The ZX-6R is 13.3:1 and requires 90 octane gas. However, an airplane engine needs 100 octane for only 10:1. A Lycoming O-320-D3G is only 8.5:1. What gives?

[choneofakind]

Well, the timing on the ZX6R is pretty advanced compared to the timing on the 250. I think.

[Alex]

There's a difference between the static compression ratio and the effective compression ratio. Depending on how aggressive the valve timing is, the effective compression ratio can be significantly different.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Alex

There's a difference between the static compression ratio and the effective compression ratio. Depending on how aggressive the valve timing is, the effective compression ratio can be significantly different.

Ok, so like the number they give in the specs is the calculated compression ratio based on the bore x stroke + headroom, right? And the effective ratio takes into account the valve timing which can be less due to intentional leakage during the compression stroke (early exhaust valve opening?). Is this a correct assessment?

But then that would mean that the exhaust valve is open at TDC right when the spark plug fires. If predetonation occurs due to high compression, it would occur in the compression stroke prior to the spark plug firing. I don't see how the compression ratio can be reduced like this and still have the engine run.

Just trying to figure it out.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Ok, so like the number they give in the specs is the calculated compression ratio based on the bore x stroke + headroom, right?

Pretty much. How much space from the top of the piston to the top of the head when it's at BDC, divided by when it is at TDC.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

And the effective ratio takes into account the valve timing which can be less due to intentional leakage during the compression stroke (early exhaust valve opening?). Is this a correct assessment?

But then that would mean that the exhaust valve is open at TDC right when the spark plug fires. If predetonation occurs due to high compression, it would occur in the compression stroke prior to the spark plug firing. I don't see how the compression ratio can be reduced like this and still have the engine run.

No, it's on the other end. The intake/exhaust valves are not both fully closed when the piston is at bdc and starting to come up. The longer they are open, the less effective compression is happening on the mixture. With fuel injection, it can be put into the cylinder at a much later time than if it had to be drawn in via a carburetor.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Alex

Pretty much. How much space from the top of the piston to the top of the head when it's at BDC, divided by when it is at TDC.

No, it's on the other end. The intake/exhaust valves are not both fully closed when the piston is at bdc and starting to come up. The longer they are open, the less effective compression is happening on the mixture. With fuel injection, it can be put into the cylinder at a much later time than if it had to be drawn in via a carburetor.

Ok, that makes more sense. So by delaying the closing of the intake valve, the effective stroke is reduced. This also means that there will be a slight regurgitation as the piston moves up slightly with the intake valve still open.

I don't see how fuel injection would be any different from carburetion unless you are talking about direct injection. With standard FI, the fuel is sprayed into the vacuum stream instead of being sucked in through a venturi. Direct injection is more like a diesel and gets pumped in to the cylinder during the compression stroke - not through the intake.

[Monkeytofu]

Originally Posted by Alex

Similar to many other 2-headlight bikes. I get the reasoning, but I'm still not a fan of that design. I prefer the more symmetrical designs. My K16 has 3 lights; the center one is the main beam, and there is one on each side that both come on when the brights are turned on.

What's the reasoning? All I can see is someone wanted to save a dollar or two by using the reflectors for bulbs. Now that I know it actually has two bulbs it just seems a really bad design decision.

[Shibadip]

Originally Posted by Jatan

Yep -- no more 250 except in some parts of Asia where they'll keep it a 250 (they won't get the 300)

Do you know which parts of Asia are getting 300??
Especially India

[msebastian]

Just went to the site, looked at the pictures and watched the videos. I want this bike, but unfortanantly it is not in my price range right now. I will be sticking with the old 250 for a while. Maybe I will get this bike sometime next season.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I don't see how fuel injection would be any different from carburetion unless you are talking about direct injection. With standard FI, the fuel is sprayed into the vacuum stream instead of being sucked in through a venturi. Direct injection is more like a diesel and gets pumped in to the cylinder during the compression stroke - not through the intake.

That's fair, but I thought that even with standard FI (not DI), since the injectors can be tweaked to deliver that spray of fuel at the microsecond level, it can be timed for different periods of the revolution more precisely than carbs, which are relying entirely on that vacuum.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Monkeytofu

What's the reasoning? All I can see is someone wanted to save a dollar or two by using the reflectors for bulbs. Now that I know it actually has two bulbs it just seems a really bad design decision.

The Ducati 916 had twin headlights like that, with only one on for normal riding, and it has been described as the purest and best designed bike of the last 30 years. So who knows.

Perhaps the wiring is simpler/cheaper/lighter to have the lights set up for a single purpose rather than having them both need to run at the higher electrical load of brights.

[pelper1]

300cc is good I was hoping for the sleeved down 400cc in the 250 frame but I'm waiting for the reviews

[choneofakind]

the 400 is already a sleeved down version of the 650. They aren't going to double sleeve when they can just lop a 600 engine in half

[pelper1]

That's exactly what I meant. I know the 400 is a sleeved down 650 I was referring to them dropping the 400 straight into the 250 frame rather than the 300cc engine.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by Surferboy120

Just went in and put my money down for mine finally now that the MSRP is available. Looks like 5700ish out the door. I ordered the green one and should arrive at the earliest next month or latest end of Nov since this dealer is one of the biggest sellers.

So... You're offering the entire forum a test ride?

ME FIRST

[Jiggles]

I am eagerly awaiting Alex's review of the new 300

[dragonboy]

Been away for awhile n all hell breaks loose. Ogling the 300. Definitely more aggressive, finally. Since only 50% is new, wondering how many parts will swap over, including the body. ;-)

[Surferboy120]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

So... You're offering the entire forum a test ride?

ME FIRST

The worst part of all of this is the wait now. Not knowing exactly when it will get here. The suffering begins.......

The only entire forum ride will be by camara.

[Trailerboy531]

Fine... just me then?

[dirty nasty]

I went to Times Square today and saw the bikes.



636





Stock 300



A 300 in track trim.

[Jiggles]

Man, wheels are so gay

[dirty nasty]

They remind me of honey combs, or soccer balls.

Ninjettes have never had aesthetically pleasing wheels, IMO.

[Jiggles]

Damnit! I don't like how I can't tell the damn bikes apart now! I was looking at the black and green 300 and I was like oh they put the same ****** looking wheels on the 636.

lol, have fun on your supergens, I'll stick with the true beauty

[dirty nasty]

New Ninjette>older one.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by dirty nasty

New Ninjette>older one.

Newgens are better than pregens? I agree

[dirty nasty]

Nope. Your new-gen is a heaping pile compared to the 300.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by dirty nasty

Nope. Your new-gen is a heaping pile compared to the 300.

A heaping pile of better bike? I agree

[dirty nasty]

You's nuts mang.

[Jiggles]

No, I'm Sean