May 28th, 2015, 06:49 AM | #1 |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Bike in gear, goes nowhere
Hello everybody! This will be quite long, sorry!
I am having an issue with my clutch/gears or something, not too sure. Here are the details: I was riding on the highway, like normal. I slowed down to take the exit ramp and slowed down, downshifted and slowed down. I shifted to 2nd to accelerate off the exit ramp and when I gave it throttle, the bike went nowhere. Bike still does not move when in gear, it just idles like in neutral but it's in gear (according to the neutral light) I've asked people at work who know about bikes and some told me to try and adjust my clutch cable because they thought it sounded like a clutch cable problem. I think I did it correctly but not to sure. I've watched plenty of videos on how to adjust the cable and leave a 1/8in of play. I did all that but bike still idles while in gear. There is no clunking noise when shifting the bike into first. There is only the normal click. No clunk, or slight jolt. Nothing. What else could it be? My last resort will be to take it to the shop. |
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May 28th, 2015, 06:51 AM | #2 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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sounds like a clutch issue, on the other end of the cable
this is a tad beyond me so I'll page @Motofool @Finesse only advice I can give is to get a shop manual (worth every penny) and see if you can replace the clutch yourself. The much easier and quicker method would be to take it to a shop though
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May 28th, 2015, 07:01 AM | #3 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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What would you estimate is the price of a new clutch with and without the labor of a shop? |
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May 28th, 2015, 07:05 AM | #4 |
cadd cadd cadd
Name: Cadd
Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot.
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So what did you do? How did you get off the highway?
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May 28th, 2015, 07:05 AM | #5 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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when the bike is not running can you push the bike as if it were in neutral with out operating the clutch?
So you set your clutch cable tension and it feels normal as if you can feel the plates being pulled apart as you pull in the clutch? You have the slightest bit of slack in the cable when the clutch lever is not pulled in? Back to the can you push it question. If you can't push it with out the clutch because it is in gear, can you push it if you do pull in the clutch? Can you shift with the bike running or not running? If your clutch lever feels normal and you can tell that the plates are moving, you are probably stuck in a false neutral. Would think it is a problem with your shift shaft or something directly connected to that. I doubt it has anything to do with the clutch cable unless you have it too tight causing the clutch to slip, even with a completely cut clutch cable the bike will operate like normal and you can shift and what not, I have ridden many of miles on my dirtbike a few times with a complete severed clutch cable. If it is the clutch it is because it is slipping or not engaging for one reason or another. I would just keep trying to get it to shift into gear trying different things, if it doesn't go into gear, take the clutch cover off and see if it is stuck open or you have broken plate, bad springs or something? after that look into the shifting mechanism
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May 28th, 2015, 07:22 AM | #6 |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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May 28th, 2015, 07:23 AM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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May 28th, 2015, 07:28 AM | #8 |
ᗧ•••ᗣ•ᗣᗣ•••ᗣ
Name: Nick
Location: NY
Join Date: Nov 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R and 2014 Triumph 675R Posts: A lot.
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what subxero sayed, check if you can push the bike without the clutch pulled in. This will give you an idea if it's stuck in nuetral, false-nuetral or a gear. If doesn't push try pulling the clutch in and pushing it, this would also give you an idea if the clutch cable works properly.
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May 28th, 2015, 07:33 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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If it's in gear with the engine running and it's not going anywhere, the hope is that it's a clutch problem. As otherwise, it's a very serious transmission issue.
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May 28th, 2015, 07:41 AM | #10 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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I will report back when I get done with everything tonight. |
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May 28th, 2015, 07:42 AM | #11 |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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May 28th, 2015, 10:17 AM | #12 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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Try rolling bike forward and backwards while playing with shifter and clutch to see if it catches.
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May 28th, 2015, 12:27 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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That's the thing, it's either the clutch or the transmission. There really aren't any other options. I hope it works out. (clutch pads, clutch springs, etc. are relatively cheap and easy. transmission repairs, not so much).
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May 28th, 2015, 02:15 PM | #14 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Before doing any surgery, you could open the plug for putting oil into the clutch cavity and see if the clutch is rotating. If it rotates, I would disconnect the external linkage and would shift by hand, with the help of a crescent wrench on the spline's clamp, while the rear tire rotates freely in the air.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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May 28th, 2015, 02:58 PM | #15 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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Can you start the bike w/o pulling clutch lever?
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May 28th, 2015, 06:24 PM | #16 | |
ran when parked
Name: Katie
Location: DC/MD
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
also yes its either the clutch or the trans. will wait to hear more updates
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May 28th, 2015, 06:40 PM | #17 |
Wannabe Reborn
Name: Unregistered
Location: Cincy Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): Blue 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 302
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I'm going with Motofool on this one. Have you done anything recent with your shift pedal or the linkage or rear sets? I have mistakenly adjusted this before to where you can shift out of range of the neutral switch, but normally engage the gear. Make sure this is adjusted properly first. Seems most likely, particularly if you have done anything or have had anything happen in this area.
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June 1st, 2015, 11:52 AM | #18 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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@Motofool @subxero @DmbShn41 @Finesse @cbinker @Sirref @Alex @crazymadbastard @DEFY
Okay guys, I'm back. Sorry for the long wait. My bike will still roll even if it's not in neutral. So I decided to bring my bike into work Saturday so my coworker could look at it today. He used to work for a motorcycle dealership as a technician, so he knows much more than I do. Well, we began by opening the clutch cover, drained the oil and everything looked good. Seriously, not a problem. We put everything back and looked at the other side. This is what he noticed. He noticed that there was a bolt missing from the center of the front sprocket. There was nothing holding the sprocket to the bike besides the chain. He also told me that if it had slid off the back tire would have locked up. He told me he is not sure if it's supposed to have a safety thing to hold the 2 pieces together. I had a dealership put the front/rear/chain on my bike about 2 months ago. They are closed today, so tomorrow I will call them. Do you guys think that the dealership should be responsible for this? My coworker did not mess with the other side at all, he simply looked at it. Edit: Good example of what happened, except I wasn't on a track. Quote:
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June 1st, 2015, 12:00 PM | #19 |
ᗧ•••ᗣ•ᗣᗣ•••ᗣ
Name: Nick
Location: NY
Join Date: Nov 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R and 2014 Triumph 675R Posts: A lot.
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oooo so all that motor power and no way to transfer it to your back wheel, that would do it. If it's just a single bolt I wouldn't make a big fuss over it, as long as it is just the bolt coming loose and not the bolt being stripped out from the mechanic. Did you check the threads?
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June 1st, 2015, 12:21 PM | #20 | ||
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
Quote:
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June 1st, 2015, 12:36 PM | #21 |
ᗧ•••ᗣ•ᗣᗣ•••ᗣ
Name: Nick
Location: NY
Join Date: Nov 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R and 2014 Triumph 675R Posts: A lot.
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Yea, I understood the first time around though. Saying if the sprocket isn't fastened to the shaft the shaft would spin freely in the sprocket. Meaning the engine would have no way of transferring back to the rear wheel. My guess is the mechanic should have never touched the front sprocket when replacing your chain. If he had to then I would just make sure that the threads for the missing bolt are still good, if so then the bolt came loose. No reason to butt heads over a loose bolt, just use loctite on the next one.
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June 1st, 2015, 12:51 PM | #22 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
Isn't it pretty serious if the sprocket came loose? |
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June 1st, 2015, 12:52 PM | #23 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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At least is an easy fix.
here is a diy on the sprockets with pics: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273 |
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June 1st, 2015, 12:58 PM | #24 | |
ᗧ•••ᗣ•ᗣᗣ•••ᗣ
Name: Nick
Location: NY
Join Date: Nov 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R and 2014 Triumph 675R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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June 1st, 2015, 01:02 PM | #25 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
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June 1st, 2015, 01:28 PM | #26 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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I would go tell the dealership what happened and that they lost my business. that way they know they ****ed up and maybe can save someone else from having the same problem.
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June 1st, 2015, 01:37 PM | #27 |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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This is what some of my coworkers said to do, not word by word, but similar. They told me it was something really bad and it should not have happened.
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June 1st, 2015, 02:35 PM | #28 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
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Yes, that is serious failure; you could have hurt yourself very badly or worse. Please, read about what happened to me: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...5&postcount=17 The new-gen has a big nut that keeps the sprocket on the spline section of the output shaft. A flat washer that engages in the spline is bent against one side of the big nut to lock it in place and avoid self-rotation and loosening. Kawasaki specifies replacing that nut retainer washer with a new one after replacing the front sprocket. There is also a specified torque that keeps it from getting loose. Please see these: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...47&postcount=3 https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273 Please, @alex.s, correct me if i am wrong.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí Last futzed with by Motofool; June 1st, 2015 at 05:25 PM. |
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June 1st, 2015, 03:54 PM | #29 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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tell the dealership that they'll be picking up your bike, fixing your ****, replacing the chain and sprocket and doing a rear axle alignment for free, and that they'll be done by the end of the week
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June 1st, 2015, 05:45 PM | #30 | |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
Location: MA
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 CBR600rr, 1987 KLR 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
To be honest though, they will probably tell him to P*ss off... not that he shouldn't try or anything, because he should. But Shops that are dishonest and don't do work correctly usually won't be stand up enough to admit they were wrong. To OP: Prime example on why I try to do all my own maintenance. Youtube videos, basic tools and a service manual will get you a long way. Glad your problem seems rather minor compared to a whole transmission replacement. Hope you get back on two wheels soon and remember to stay safe brother!
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June 1st, 2015, 09:56 PM | #31 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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let me walk you through their decision making:
1. huh, we don't have a new lock washer for this chain job 2. oh well, better give it back to the customer and move on to the next bike! proper mechanic work means not leaving something so obvious undone. and if it had been done, the nut wouldn't have come off. i'd suggest you plaster their incompetence all over any review section, facebook page, or any other public facing area related to them. maybe they will be less likely to cause someones death in the future.
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June 1st, 2015, 10:20 PM | #32 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
I'm still fairly upset about what happened and I hope they own up to it. I'm afraid that they won't and will just ignore my statements. The more I think about it the worse I feel. I can't believe something like this happened. I'm glad I was out of the highway and not near cars when it happened. My budy that helped me buy my bike and I have gotten our Senas installed on our helmets and we can't use them because my bike is having this issue :/ it sucks. Today was a nice day too. Thanks for all your support guys, it means a lot, seriously. |
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June 2nd, 2015, 07:05 AM | #33 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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It's hard to say if the chain and rear sprocket are fine, probably the rear sprocket is fine but the chain IDK? If the chain was stressed in an odd way it can cause tight spots or loose spots in a few links which ruins the chain. The front sprocket I am not so sure but skeptical it would be ok as it would have been sitting on the end of the drive shaft while it was spinning. I would probably request a new front, they are cheap, shouldn't be a big deal.
I would request a new front sprocket and chain for sure personally just to make sure everything was all good, the rear is probably fine but I would look it over real good and I think that could tell you what you need to know
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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June 2nd, 2015, 04:25 PM | #34 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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Pretty sure your chain and sprocket are both still fine.
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June 3rd, 2015, 07:32 AM | #35 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
You're correct. They are still good. It was a good idea to check them though, I don't know much about bikes and their parts but I do know that they are both just as good as the day I bought them. Thank you guys for the advice and concerns. It has helped a lot. The shop has agreed to give me the bolt and the washer. I will have to wait till Friday to receive them. I will be putting them on myself with my coworker, he knows exactly what to do and I'll be able to watch him do it. |
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June 3rd, 2015, 07:34 AM | #36 | |
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
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June 3rd, 2015, 11:05 AM | #37 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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chances are probably pretty high that the ends of the splines on both the sprocket and the output shaft are gnared up from having one end spinning while the other is not. so unless it's actually been inspected by taking the cover off, don't assume its fine.
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June 3rd, 2015, 11:06 AM | #38 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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the shop made the error. they should be responsible for it. have them do it while you watch them. anything less is encouraging their irresponsible and frankly potentially life threatening behavior
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June 4th, 2015, 07:02 AM | #39 | ||
Frank & Flo
Name: Frank
Location: Chattanooga
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 38
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe you're right. I wasn't too sure about taking it to them, when my parts come in and they call me, I'll consider having them pick it up and watch them work on it. |
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June 4th, 2015, 09:36 AM | #40 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
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Quote:
Although the steel of the shaft is harder than the steel of the sprocket, the thread at the end of the shaft could have suffered damaged as well. Those two splines should slide respect to each other without any radial or torsional play. Please, see these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_%28mechanical%29 http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl...ys/Spline.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broachi...etalworking%29
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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