New problem

Elusivepotato · March 7th, 2016, 07:12 PM

So got the bike to start, kind of. It will start up, but it makes a knocking sound and does not stay running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikxNct6JnO4

Link to original page on YouTube.

greg737 · March 7th, 2016, 07:32 PM

Holy crap, that video... it was like a bigfoot sighting or UFO tape.

Seriously, the bike really didn't run long enough to diagnose anything. One "knock" that's relatively common on the Pre-Gen EX250s is the clutch basket which has hard rubber bumpers in it rather than metal springs like most bikes have. These hard rubber bumpers will disintegrate if the bike it treated rough, shifted hard. Usually there will be evidence in the oil and the oil filter when these bumpers come apart, little flecks of hard, rubbery black stuff.

jkv45 · March 7th, 2016, 07:39 PM

That knocking sound is not uncommon.

Sounds like it ran out of gas.

Elusivepotato · March 7th, 2016, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

Holy crap, that video... it was like a bigfoot sighting or UFO tape.

Seriously, the bike really didn't run long enough to diagnose anything. One "knock" that's relatively common on the Pre-Gen EX250s is the clutch basket which has hard rubber bumpers in it rather than metal springs like most bikes have. These hard rubber bumpers will disintegrate if the bike it treated rough, shifted hard. Usually there will be evidence in the oil and the oil filter when these bumpers come apart, little flecks of hard, rubbery black stuff.

it isn't just one knock though, its consistent and it wont stay running here is a longer video right under the engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP-gWj3FLww

Link to original page on YouTube.

Elusivepotato · March 7th, 2016, 08:02 PM

also that sudden dying happens whenever I let go of the throttle and or the starter

jkv45 · March 8th, 2016, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

also that sudden dying happens whenever I let go of the throttle and or the starter

Charge your battery.

When it's running it doesn't sound bad. Check your fuel supply. It still sounds like it's running out of gas. Where do you have the choke set?

HoneyBadgerRy · March 8th, 2016, 09:11 AM

Also when the bike is hard starting (if the problem isn't a dead or almost dead battery) giving the carbs a good clean solves the problem.

verboten1 · March 8th, 2016, 10:44 AM

sounds to me like you are running on one cylinder, you need to clean your carbs

Elusivepotato · March 8th, 2016, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verboten1

sounds to me like you are running on one cylinder, you need to clean your carbs

I have cleaned the carbs very thoroughly and gone through them multiple times

RacinNinja · March 8th, 2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

I have cleaned the carbs very thoroughly and gone through them multiple times

Did you drill out the pilot screw cover, remove the cap, then the screws and clean that passage?

jkv45 · March 8th, 2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verboten1

sounds to me like you are running on one cylinder, you need to clean your carbs

An easy check would be comparing the temps of the pipes when it's running.

verboten1 · March 8th, 2016, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

I have cleaned the carbs very thoroughly and gone through them multiple times

I did the same, and then I bought an ultrasonic cleaner, and new jets, all of a sudden my bike ran just fine.

I even ran some copper wire through the jets, still didn't run right

Elusivepotato · March 8th, 2016, 02:22 PM

well i got it to start and idle at speed without assistance but a loud ping sounded and locked up the engine

greg737 · March 8th, 2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

well i got it to start and idle at speed without assistance but a loud ping sounded and locked up the engine

wow, that sounds bad. I've never heard of an EX250 engine doing that at idle speed (I've heard of high-RPM failures that ended in seizure, but not at idle).

jkv45 · March 8th, 2016, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

well i got it to start and idle at speed without assistance but a loud ping sounded and locked up the engine

Hmm...what does it do now?

Do you get lights and nothing when you hit the button? Do they dim or go out?

Any idea where the sound came from? Have you checked the oil level lately?

Have you charged the battery at all?

Elusivepotato · March 8th, 2016, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

Hmm...what does it do now?

Do you get lights and nothing when you hit the button? Do they dim or go out?

Any idea where the sound came from? Have you checked the oil level lately?

Have you charged the battery at all?

the lights dim, and I hear the starter relay click and the electric starter click, but nothing happens. I can move the flywheel with the socket three quarters clockwise, but then it stops and it can move it back to where it was, but I only have three quarters of a turn of play. I dropped down the engine and mounted it on a table and tomorrow I am going to start exploring to see if I can find the cause

choneofakind · March 8th, 2016, 06:24 PM

Oh man... my mind is not going fun places right now. Hoping for the best for you. In for pictures.

jkv45 · March 8th, 2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

the lights dim, and I hear the starter relay click and the electric starter click, but nothing happens. I can move the flywheel with the socket three quarters clockwise, but then it stops and it can move it back to where it was, but I only have three quarters of a turn of play. I dropped down the engine and mounted it on a table and tomorrow I am going to start exploring to see if I can find the cause

Bummer.

Pull the valve cover and see if there are any clues as to what's going on.

Elusivepotato · March 9th, 2016, 09:46 AM

I think I found the issue, I pulled of the head cover and took out the camshafts and when I was taking off the rocker arms i noticed one had a gouge in it. I looked over and the two halves of the collar that keeps the valves in place with the spring were gone and I think they worked their way down into the engine. Also the knocking sound makes sense if there is a loose valve freely moving.

RacinNinja · March 9th, 2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

I think I found the issue, I pulled of the head cover and took out the camshafts and when I was taking off the rocker arms i noticed one had a gouge in it. I looked over and the two halves of the collar that keeps the valves in place with the spring were gone and I think they worked their way down into the engine. Also the knocking sound makes sense if there is a loose valve freely moving.

Um, that's really bad news. This means that, with 95% probability, there is a valve hitting a piston.

Pull the head and have a look. Hope the damage isn't too......explodey.

csmith12 · March 9th, 2016, 11:05 AM

Elusivepotato · March 9th, 2016, 11:15 AM

At the moment it looks like it is going to be a parts bike, or I will just replace the engine. I got it from the guy for $300. But at the moment I am looking for another one that only needs the sprockets and chain replaced and the engine was recently replaced.

RacinNinja · March 9th, 2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

At the moment it looks like it is going to be a parts bike, or I will just replace the engine. I got it from the guy for $300. But at the moment I am looking for another one that only needs the sprockets and chain replaced and the engine was recently replaced.

Well, for 300 bucks you didn't do too bad! Should be able to find another motor for a few hundred bucks and have yourself a runner for $750 tops.

Elusivepotato · March 9th, 2016, 12:21 PM

Just wanted to share what I found when I took off the cylinder cover

Elusivepotato · March 9th, 2016, 12:23 PM

They punched a hole straight through the cylinder head

RacinNinja · March 9th, 2016, 12:39 PM

WOW!

choneofakind · March 9th, 2016, 04:08 PM

Yepp, that's right where my mind was going when you said it stopped running completely.

Dang son!

jkv45 · March 10th, 2016, 08:01 AM

Well, that sucks. What a mess.

Glad you weren't into it much.

crazymadbastard · March 10th, 2016, 11:13 AM

Elusivepotato · March 10th, 2016, 02:58 PM

Well I have a new hope with the bike, there was a salvage yard that had an engine with a couple things missing for cheap off of a 2005. I'm going to swap over parts and hopefully bring it back to life

Jetfoi · March 10th, 2016, 03:47 PM

I had an issue similar. Take the carbs out and clean them

RacinNinja · March 10th, 2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

Just wanted to share what I found when I took off the cylinder cover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetfoi

I had an issue similar. Take the carbs out and clean them

I highly doubt dirty carbs would fix the above issue.

Scroll up a couple posts....there are valves stuck in the pistons.

Jetfoi · March 10th, 2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

I highly doubt dirty carbs would fix the above issue.

Scroll up a couple posts....there are valves stuck in the pistons.

Whoops missed that part sorry

RacinNinja · March 10th, 2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetfoi

Whoops missed that part sorry

I bet the OP wishes it was a simple carb issue though!

Elusivepotato · March 10th, 2016, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

I bet the OP wishes it was a simple carb issue though!

Yeah I wish it was that simple. A local motorcycle shop should have the tools to remove a flywheel right?

HoneyBadgerRy · March 10th, 2016, 06:14 PM

Most likely.

Alex · March 11th, 2016, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusivepotato

Just wanted to share what I found when I took off the cylinder cover

Baron · March 11th, 2016, 01:29 PM

The bloody hell?!?!?!
That's going to give me nightmares now.

March 7th, 2016, 07:12 PM	#1
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	New problem So got the bike to start, kind of. It will start up, but it makes a knocking sound and does not stay running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikxNct6JnO4 Link to original page on YouTube.

March 8th, 2016, 09:11 AM	#7
HoneyBadgerRy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Beaufort SC Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 05 Ninja 250, 04 KTM 625 SMC, 01 Xc250 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 3	Also when the bike is hard starting (if the problem isn't a dead or almost dead battery) giving the carbs a good clean solves the problem. __________________________________________________ Because Unregistered sucks at riding.

March 8th, 2016, 10:44 AM	#8
verboten1 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jason Location: Monroe, MI Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '75 CB550:.'82 XV920:.'00 KLR650:.'00 EX250:.'08 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - June '15	sounds to me like you are running on one cylinder, you need to clean your carbs __________________________________________________ '82 XV920: Soon to be tracker--'00 KLR685:adv --'04 DRZ400E--'12 Super Tenere --'13 Versys Ride more, worry less.

March 9th, 2016, 11:05 AM	#21
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	__________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

March 9th, 2016, 12:39 PM	#26
RacinNinja Vintage Screwball Name: B Location: Washington Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250, 2008 Ninja 250, 2019 KTM 1290SDR, 2017 FZ10 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '16	WOW! __________________________________________________ Goin' fast on slow bikes!

March 7th, 2016, 07:32 PM	#2
greg737 - Name: - Location: - Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.	Holy crap, that video... it was like a bigfoot sighting or UFO tape. Seriously, the bike really didn't run long enough to diagnose anything. One "knock" that's relatively common on the Pre-Gen EX250s is the clutch basket which has hard rubber bumpers in it rather than metal springs like most bikes have. These hard rubber bumpers will disintegrate if the bike it treated rough, shifted hard. Usually there will be evidence in the oil and the oil filter when these bumpers come apart, little flecks of hard, rubbery black stuff.

March 7th, 2016, 07:39 PM	#3
jkv45 Rev Limiter Name: Jay Location: WI Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16	That knocking sound is not uncommon. Sounds like it ran out of gas.

March 7th, 2016, 08:02 PM	#5
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	also that sudden dying happens whenever I let go of the throttle and or the starter

March 8th, 2016, 02:22 PM	#13
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	well i got it to start and idle at speed without assistance but a loud ping sounded and locked up the engine

March 8th, 2016, 06:24 PM	#17
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Oh man... my mind is not going fun places right now. Hoping for the best for you. In for pictures.

March 9th, 2016, 09:46 AM	#19
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	I think I found the issue, I pulled of the head cover and took out the camshafts and when I was taking off the rocker arms i noticed one had a gouge in it. I looked over and the two halves of the collar that keeps the valves in place with the spring were gone and I think they worked their way down into the engine. Also the knocking sound makes sense if there is a loose valve freely moving.

March 9th, 2016, 11:15 AM	#22
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	At the moment it looks like it is going to be a parts bike, or I will just replace the engine. I got it from the guy for $300. But at the moment I am looking for another one that only needs the sprockets and chain replaced and the engine was recently replaced.

March 9th, 2016, 12:23 PM	#25
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	They punched a hole straight through the cylinder head

March 9th, 2016, 04:08 PM	#27
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Yepp, that's right where my mind was going when you said it stopped running completely. Dang son!

March 10th, 2016, 08:01 AM	#28
jkv45 Rev Limiter Name: Jay Location: WI Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16	Well, that sucks. What a mess. Glad you weren't into it much.

March 10th, 2016, 11:13 AM	#29
crazymadbastard I'm crazy,your excuse is? Name: Winston Location: Connecticut Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.	__________________________________________________ My Cafe Racer Build My intro post

March 10th, 2016, 02:58 PM	#30
Elusivepotato ninjette.org member Name: Taylor Location: Dayton, Ohio Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Kawasaki ex250 Posts: 37	Well I have a new hope with the bike, there was a salvage yard that had an engine with a couple things missing for cheap off of a 2005. I'm going to swap over parts and hopefully bring it back to life

March 10th, 2016, 03:47 PM	#31
Jetfoi ninjette.org member Name: Thom Location: Virginia Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2013 zx6r and 1995 250r Posts: 69	I had an issue similar. Take the carbs out and clean them __________________________________________________ spend all the spare time on two wheels

March 10th, 2016, 06:14 PM	#36
HoneyBadgerRy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Beaufort SC Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 05 Ninja 250, 04 KTM 625 SMC, 01 Xc250 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 3	Most likely. __________________________________________________ Because Unregistered sucks at riding.

March 11th, 2016, 01:29 PM	#38
Baron Urban Legend Name: Baron Location: Brampton, ON Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE - Circe Posts: 542	The bloody hell?!?!?! That's going to give me nightmares now. __________________________________________________ "Life is like riding - *You can either tear the fastlane in half or stay in the slipstream trying to play catch up*." -Baron

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