IOM Zero TT electric -- holy chrome

[adouglas]

So William Dunlop crashed again this year and won't be able to ride the Victory prototype electric bike. Guy Martin is stepping in.

From the piece in the news section about it, they describe the motor:

The motor is made by Parker and called the Parker GVM. It’s cylindrical and sits behind the swingarm’s pivot point. The Parker GVM is just eight inches (0.2m) in diameter and five inches (0.13m) long, but generates 175hp giving around 165hp at the rear wheel.

It is 97 per cent efficient; nearly all of the electrical energy drawn from the Brammo batteries is converted in to kinetic energy to drive the chain and sprocket on the rear wheel.

That's smaller than the alternator in your car. 175 horsepower. Crikey.

The electric bikes are hitting 150 mph.

I'm hopeful that with the current pace of development, it won't be too many more years before these things become truly viable and cost-competitive.

What looks like a perfect electric track bike exists today... it's the scary-fast Lightning, which makes 200-plus hp and has enough capacity to last a weekend but costs $40k. Get that down to literbike territory and it would be very, very appealing.

[MrAtom]

I'll bet an electric engine is a million times easier to fix than an ICE.

[choneofakind]

motor. electric motor.

[adouglas]

Yah... fix? No real need. One moving part. Brushes, bearings, that's about it. That's what makes electric bikes so appealing. They're FAR simpler than ICE bikes. The complexity isn't in the machinery. It's in the power management systems, which are all just electronics anyway.

[choneofakind]

Adouglas, motors are not maintenance free. They do burn out over time. You do have to take them apart, bake off the wrap in a burn out oven, then get rewrapped and put back together. They also need bearings occasionally. They're not maintenance free. And idk about yall, but I don't know anyone who has a proper motor rebuild shop capable of armeture winding and burnout in their garage.

Not exactly as easy as rebuilding a top end or replacing crank bearings.

[adouglas]

Ya learn something new every day... I thought it'd be limited to the bearings and brushes.

I mean, a motor is nothing but magnets, copper windings on the armature, brushes, bearings and a shaft. Plus the casing to hold it all together. Right?

So what actually happens to the windings to cause them to wear out?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

So what actually happens to the windings to cause them to wear out?

I burn out a fan with a electric motor about every 2yrs. Why? heat, dust and age. It eats at the very thin lacquer insulation in the windings. It eventually will smoke as it gets too hot, get it too hot, too fast and it will literally go up in flames.

[choneofakind]

Current loads through wire cause heat. Heat the wires long enough and you'll melt/burn the insulation between windings.

If you ever get the chance, go visit your local electric motor shop. It's pretty neat! Smells bad though.


If the motor is chosen properly for the application, rebuilding it should never be needed or be needed at very long intervals; similar to rebuilding a ninjette engine. But it does happen. Ever seen a 3500hp motor blow smoke for 10 seconds straight when starting up a large piece of equipment because it's undersized for the startup load and you're just praying you don't blow the motor before your scheduled shutdown to replace the motor with a 4,000 hp unit?!! Neat to see. Scary to be near.

Edit: ninja'd by Chris

[csmith12]

Sorry

I would guess certain sacrifices were made to keep weight under control to create such power in a compact and light package. And the heat that thing must endure... it can't last for too long under those conditions, but who cares at that level of racing.

[choneofakind]

I'll ask the dumb question: is it liquid cooled? I haven't seen a picture of it so idk if there's a radiator or not.

[adouglas]

Yes... liquid cooled.

[Sirref]

The biggest thing to me with electric cars and bikes is range and charging time

this is huge as gasoline motors are easily and quickly refueled but a tesla for example can take 8-10 hours to fully charge and only has a range of 22mi per hour of charge. I just don't have time for that despite liking a lot about electric bikes and seeing a ton of potential in them. When it's practical to own one I will, but not a day before.

[liberpolly]

there are superconductor motor prototypes that generate zero heat. also, there are electric motors in places where they cannot be replaced/rebuilt, like nuclear reactors, they use teflon insulation instead of lacquer, it's never burns out.

eventually they'll be cheap enough to just replace every few years, like a battery today.

I have one horsepower (750w) electric bike. It accelerates me to 20 mph and barely gets warm. It looks like they've hit Moore law where performance doubles every 18 months...

[JohnnyBravo]

Electric bike engines... Boring

[crazymadbastard]

150mph not boing!
For me, if it ever gets inexpensive enough and past 100 mile range, I would totally go for one.

[DEFY]

A motor with 10,000 windings, good luck repairing that manually lol.

[Racer x]

Only draw back racing an electric on the TT is the fans. With no sound I will wager a LOT of people wander onto the track. Not a problem on a circut corse. But a real danger on a 37 mile countryside track.
I can't wait to see how Guy does. He rocks.

[InvisiBill]

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/05/14...ic-motorcycle/ is an article about the bike.


As a Volt owner, I can say that EVs have some unique qualities that you don't really think about at first.

Whereas ICEs have distinct power curves, electric motors are pretty flat across the whole range. This means you don't need different gears to handle different situations (starting from a stop, highway cruising, etc.). My car has no transmission. There's no lurching during acceleration since it doesn't need to shift. The motor just spins at whatever speed is needed to turn the wheels at the desired speed.

That flat power curve also means you don't get the building power as the engine revs - it's just all there from the start. My little golfcart-car has 273 lb-ft of torque. A Tesla will max out a dyno with 2000+ lb-ft of torque (more realistically ~4300 lb-ft).

Those combine for a strong, smooth acceleration. The closest thing I can compare it to is a Metro train. It just starts going, and keeps accelerating until it's up to speed.

Not that it's really necessary on a bike, but EVs are much smoother to ride in. You don't realize just how much vibration and noise an ICE adds to a car until you get used to not having one. When I took my buddy for a spin the first time with all the windows down, his exact words were, "All you hear is wind and tires." The fan for the climate control is louder than the "running" car.

Yes, electric motors aren't 100% reliable and maintenance-free. But they're a lot simpler than ICEs, and seem to be at least more reliable. The Volt has a lot of stuff to seamlessly integrate the ICE range extender, plus all the non-powertrain normal car parts, so I don't know that a Volt is overall going to have lower maintenance than a comparable ICE car (though experiences so far indicate it is). But in a pure EV, there are simply fewer things that need to be maintained. No fuel filter. No valve adjustments. No oil changes. No spark plug changes. Even if you do need a fairly expensive motor or battery replacement after a while, it could still end up being cheaper with all the money you saved on maintenance items (and let's not forget how often engines/transmissions get rebuilt). If the motor is mounted on the swingarm of a bike, you would also get rid of chain adjustments (though you'd be adding some unsprung weight).


The big issue right now is the batteries. They're relatively large and heavy to hold the amount of power needed to propel a vehicle. However, I don't think it's as bad as many people imagine - my understanding is that the ~40-mile battery pack on the 3800lb Volt is only about 400lb. Sure, that's the weight of a whole bike, but the car is also 10x as heavy. A 400lb bike can get by with a much smaller battery. This keeps improving over time - the '16 has a rated range 43% higher than the '11. GM seems to have really overengineered the Volt - it's got a dedicated coolant system to keep the batteries from getting too hot or cold, and there's extra battery capacity at the top and bottom ends that the user can't access. Some cheaper cars are reportedly having problems due to trying to squeeze more out of the batteries and spending less on protecting them.

Charging is probably the worst part of EV batteries. Note that the J1772 charging stations are essentially fancy extension cords with safety features builtin. The actual AC/DC charger is built into the car. GM sort of cheaped out on the Volt charger, in that it's only half as fast as the Leaf and other common EVs (some people think they crippled the charging because it hurts other EVs much more than it hurts the Volt if charging stations are less available). It takes me 4 hours of 240V charging to get that 40 miles back. If I were to swap in a Leaf's charging unit, I could do it in 2 hours. A Tesla Supercharger can add 170 miles in half an hour. You can get back up to 80% in about 40 minutes, but then it has to slow down to top the cells off, so it takes another 35 minutes to go from 80% to 100% (they compare it to trying to fill a glass with water to the very tip top, so you slow down at the end to get every last drop). Due to the chemistry, batteries also don't like to be charged too fast. Some of the cars with faster charging options recommend that you don't use them all the time.

Barring some major breakthrough in battery technology, I think this will be covered by efficiency increases in battery capacity combined with partial quick-charges. Rather than having a 300 mile battery that you can completely refill in 5 minutes, you'll have a 400 mile battery that you can put 300 miles into in a few minutes. It's much easier to quickly put in 80% of a charge than 100%, so if we get the batteries big enough that 80% of a charge is still comparable to a tankful of gas, then we'll be doing pretty good. Then we just have to address the chicken & egg problem of charging station availability...


I bought the Volt because I got a great deal on it and it matched my driving habits pretty well. In the 9 months I've had it, I've driven 7496 miles, with 5065 of those on battery (67.5%). I've used 79 gallons of gas since buying it. I didn't even go to a gas station in April or May. Speaking purely on gallons of gas, I'm at 94.9mpg (though I know I'm paying for electricity to recharge it too). Each charge is equivalent to a little more than a gallon of gas, and costs about half as much. I did a fair amount of longer-range driving in the extreme cold this winter, which was a double-whammy.

I don't think electric bikes are quite where I want them yet. I tend to just ride around for as long as I feel like it, so the limited range of a battery doesn't work well for me. When we get to the point where an electric bike has a similar range to gas bike without needing hours to recharge, I'll definitely be very interested. For a very specific usage like this race bike, electric could be really cool.

[adouglas]

Great post.

I can't see an electric bike as my only bike. But I do have two specific missions for which the technology would be ideal.

My personal rule of thumb is that I won't eliminate range anxiety until the vehicle can travel at least half again as far as I need. Preferably twice as far.

- Commuting. I'm 17 miles from my office and can take either a mixed highway/back road route or all twisty back roads. Overall average speeds, including traffic signals, are in the 35-40 mph range. On those (rare) occasions when there is no traffic on the highway portion, I may hit 70-75, but that portion is only 10 miles of the commute.

So a range of 75 miles is the sweet spot for that scenario.

- Track bike. Relatively few miles, but high energy consumption. Guessing a 100-mile range would get me through a track weekend nicely.

Like everybody else I'm waiting for the cost-effectiveness tipping point.

I realize it won't happen for obvious reasons, but I'd love it if some gearhead/electric engineer fanatic were to create a track-oriented conversion kit for an existing, popular sportbike chassis. It then becomes a matter of packaging, rather than total vehicle design.

I can easily envision myself taking my GSX-R's ICE and related systems out and dropping in an electric kit.

IMHO part of the challenge electric bike manufacturers must face is the same one confronting any small bike manufacturer: the need to reinvent the wheel by building a whole bike. Low volume means development costs are high, and that translates directly into high vehicle cost.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

- Track bike. Relatively few miles, but high energy consumption. Guessing a 100-mile range would get me through a track weekend nicely.

An average track weekend for me is just shy of 200 miles. So I would need a charge overnight. And I have coached for 3 days in a row, so definately would need a charge before the 3rd day.

To ensure a proper day, it would most likely go... run morning sessions, charge during lunch (80% quick charge), ride afternoon sessions, slow charge overnight for next morning.

To hard on the battery?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

also, there are electric motors in places where they cannot be replaced/rebuilt, like nuclear reactors, they use teflon insulation instead of lacquer, it's never burns out.

Lol, working with a former nuclear plant engineer has given me an appreciation for just HOW MUCH MONEY things like that cost. Also remember that those motors are not a solo motor. There is a backup. and there is a back up for the backup. and there is a backup for the backup if the power goes out. or if they lose water. or if the have to shut X equipment down in any of Y number of ways, etc etc. What I'm saying is even if it never burns out, they're expecting it to. Nuclear field is insanely meticulous. Anal retentive actually.

Can we make that kind of motor in a bike? sure.

Is it feasible for this application within a realistic timeline at a consumer friendly cost? hell no. Best bet is to wait until they become cheaper and just plan on replacements at scheduled intervals. IMHO, the only way electric bikes are going to go big is when things become cheap enough to be throwaway units. Batteries, motors, all of it. Swap 'em, throw 'em out, whatever. In 2080, I doubt we're going to have classic electric sport bikes being restored and ridden on sunny weekends like we have '69 cameros today.




Let's also never say that a piece of equipment is somewhere that it cannot ever be replaced/rebuilt. If there's a will, there's a way in a nuclear plant. Anal retentive attention to detail, engineers, planning, meticulous execution, money, and some more money, make anything happen.

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Lol, working with a former nuclear plant engineer has given me an appreciation for just HOW MUCH MONEY things like that cost.
...
Can we make that kind of motor in a bike? sure.
Is it feasible for this application within a realistic timeline at a consumer friendly cost? hell no.

Hell yes. I give it 5 years until economy of scale kicks in and electric motorcycle motors that can last 10 years are mass produced. There's nothing inherently expensive in there, it's just the low volume that keeps them expensive. Teflon is cheap.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by adouglas

My personal rule of thumb is that I won't eliminate range anxiety until the vehicle can travel at least half again as far as I need. Preferably twice as far.

- Commuting. I'm 17 miles from my office and can take either a mixed highway/back road route or all twisty back roads. Overall average speeds, including traffic signals, are in the 35-40 mph range. On those (rare) occasions when there is no traffic on the highway portion, I may hit 70-75, but that portion is only 10 miles of the commute.

So a range of 75 miles is the sweet spot for that scenario.

Being prepared with some extra capacity is good. But too much extra adds inefficiency, which hurts the capacity you're trying to get in the first place. Like the article about this bike says, ideally you want to finish as close to zero as possible. If you have charge left, you carried around extra battery weight for no reason. Obviously this is much easier to say on a track bike where the worst-case scenario is you push it back to the pits, or in a Volt where running out of battery just means the ICE kicks on, as opposed to a commuter bike that absolutely has to get you somewhere within its finite range. But too much extra will indeed have a negative impact, so don't get carried away. You don't have a 20 gallon tank on your bike "just in case", so don't get crazy with the battery size either.

Originally Posted by adouglas

I realize it won't happen for obvious reasons, but I'd love it if some gearhead/electric engineer fanatic were to create a track-oriented conversion kit for an existing, popular sportbike chassis. It then becomes a matter of packaging, rather than total vehicle design.

I can easily envision myself taking my GSX-R's ICE and related systems out and dropping in an electric kit.

IMHO part of the challenge electric bike manufacturers must face is the same one confronting any small bike manufacturer: the need to reinvent the wheel by building a whole bike. Low volume means development costs are high, and that translates directly into high vehicle cost.

These pics are from a local charging station.





Unfortunately there's not really any detail with the pics (I think their site might have changed a bit since they were posted), so I can't find the owner. I'd love to talk with him and see exactly what his setup is like. Found him! Guess I should've scrolled down the Google results a bit further before saying I couldn't find him... https://experimentalev.wordpress.com/current-projects/ It looks like he's a former Tesla employee who is (was?) starting his own EV company. http://www.torkeusa.com/ is the (currently down) website.

Everyone that has been following me knows I have a passion of building performance electric vehicles, especially motorcycles. The market is still very open in the power-sports segment for EV’s. I have decided to to launch a company “Torke Electric Vehicles” I specifically called it this because I plan on quickly branching into watercraft, ATV’s, scooters, snow mobiles, etc… The decision to leave Tesla Motors wasn’t easy, I loved working there but I knew I needed to follow my true passion.

We will be launching the company with two models- “Torke Energy” & “Torke Anode”. Both based on the same frame and similar bodies.

The “Torke Energy” will be the higher performance longer range AC powered belt driven electric sport bike

The “Torke Anode” will be the commuter motorcycle shorter range DC powered motorcycle for true entry level EV enthusiast and beginners on two wheels.

Here's another pic from his site.

• 60 mile range
• 0-60 in about 3.0 seconds
• top speed of 105+
• Complete LED/HID lighting system, no incandescent lighting

A lot of people have made their own EV conversions. The S-10 is pretty popular for it (it's a smaller vehicle where it's easy to drop a motor in place of the ICE and it has a lot of room for batteries). As the above pics show, it can be done on a bike too.

Generally I'm thinking that the motor would go in place of the transmission and the battery would go in place of the engine. In bikes that use the engine as a stressed member, you probably wouldn't want those forces on the battery pack. However, you might be able to add a support there (essentially turning it into a full frame setup), which could make the battery pack a nice removable module. Remember that you no longer need the gas tank, so that could be converted to a fairing-like cover over the battery pack or electronics (but you'd still need it strong enough to support your weight on a supersport).

For a track bike, you could probably do a custom charging setup. I'm not sure if tracks generally have 240V "RV" outlets available, but a flexible 120/240 system would probably be best. I assume an outboard charger would be preferred for keeping the bike simple and light. For a street bike, J1772 has pretty much become the current standard, so that would be ideal for accessing public charging stations (in the pics above, it looks like he's just using the 120V wall outlet on the charging station, not their 240V plug). However, they're working on new, upgraded versions with DC fast charging and stuff, so it would probably be best to at least investigate those details before committing too much to anything particular.

It may make more sense to do a fairly significant redesign rather than a drop-in kit. As mentioned with the IoM bike, a small motor might be better located somewhere else (like on the swingarm) to avoid current complications that arise due to having the engine and drive wheel essentially at opposite ends of the bike. Since you no longer have the big engine and voluminous gas tank, it might be best to change the default frame layout (with the frame over/around the engine and the gas tank sitting on top) even. When you completely change the powerplant like this, it can create opportunities for rearranging all the components into a more efficient layout. Obviously this is getting into designing a bike from scratch, which has its own list of problems, rather than a DIY kit that a moderate gearhead could handle.

I think the Volt is great because it lets you have an EV most of time (assuming you paid attention to its details and your needs when you bought it), but at the same time can operate just like any other ICE car when you run out of battery. Likewise, I expect transitional EBikes to be very similar to existing bikes, just with the powerplant swapped. We don't need to make it a radically different design (e.g. Akira) just because, but we shouldn't ignore the possibilities created by ditching the ICE either.

[adouglas]

Fascinating stuff.

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

You don't have a 20 gallon tank on your bike "just in case", so don't get crazy with the battery size either.

Using that logic, you should fill the tank in your car with just enough fuel for one day's commute and no more. Anything extra is a waste... you're lugging weight you don't need to.

Do you do that?

The tank in my car is 10 gallons. That's enough for a week or more of commuting. Is that a waste? Strictly speaking, yes. I'd say it's practical.

Yeah, I realize there's a tradeoff. I'm not saying to have capacity to run for two-plus weeks.

In the real world, a good cushion is needed. You just don't know if you'll have to run an errand in the middle of the day, or have to take a detour, or whatever.

Sometimes, for example, I need to run home at lunch. That doubles my commute for the day.

When I was a poor college student I'd run the tank to the ragged edge and I ran out of gas more than once. In an ICE car that's no big deal... just get a gallon of gas in there and you're fine. But with an EV, you're screwed. Having extra is (for me) necessary.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Using that logic, you should fill the tank in your car with just enough fuel for one day's commute and no more. Anything extra is a waste... you're lugging weight you don't need to.

Do you do that?

The tank in my car is 10 gallons. That's enough for a week or more of commuting. Is that a waste? Strictly speaking, yes. I'd say it's practical.

Yeah, I realize there's a tradeoff. I'm not saying to have capacity to run for two-plus weeks.

In the real world, a good cushion is needed. You just don't know if you'll have to run an errand in the middle of the day, or have to take a detour, or whatever.

Sometimes, for example, I need to run home at lunch. That doubles my commute for the day.

When I was a poor college student I'd run the tank to the ragged edge and I ran out of gas more than once. In an ICE car that's no big deal... just get a gallon of gas in there and you're fine. But with an EV, you're screwed. Having extra is (for me) necessary.

Agreed.

Partial fillups is actually one of the tips listed at http://www.fuelly.com/tips. It's simple physics that carrying less extra weight around uses less fuel (which is why you also shouldn't keep tons of junk in your commuter). But don't forget to take into account how far out of your way you have to go to refuel every day. If you're saving .1gal each day by carrying less weight, but wasting .2gal driving out of your way to the gas station, you're actually being less efficient. You have to look at the big picture.

But in an EV, where you can't add the exact amount of necessary fuel in 2 minutes on every other corner, capacity is more of a concern. I wasn't trying to say that your desire for having twice the range of your normal commute was a bad idea. However, the people who add 1,000lb of battery to their 10-mile-commute EV because some day they might want to take a trip aren't being very smart about things. I used the 20 gallon tank in my example to take it to the absurd level. Upgrading your bike to a 5 gallon tank might be a good idea, but 20 gallons is probably unwise for most commuters.

Because of the rarity of charging stations and the time involved in recharging, people (rightfully) have much more range anxiety with EVs. It's easy to get carried away. "I commute 35 miles a day. Sometimes I go home at lunch so that's 70 miles a day. I may want to go to the store, so that adds another 15 miles. If we want to go out to dinner, that's 15 more miles. Therefore, I need 100 miles of range!" I don't want to be stuck somewhere in an EV with a dead battery, but this example has gone from prime Volt range (which is relatively low compared to other EVs since it has the ICE too) to beyond what any "standard" EV will do (BMW i3 is best with 81 miles of range). As someone who actually owns a plugin EV (albeit one with an ICE generator builtin), I was just trying to keep the potential absurdity in check.

This is where more charging stations and 80% quick charges will do more to help than incremental battery capacity increases. If you had a 25 mile battery that could do 80% quick charges and a charger at work, you'd probably be covered pretty well. You could ride to work, then recharge while you're working. You could ride home at lunch and do a quick charge while you're there. Ride back to work and recharge again while you're working in the afternoon, then commute back home.

A 25 mile range would suck on a bike used for pleasure riding. But for a commuter, we've just reduced your battery capacity needs to 1/3 of what they were. On something as small and light as a bike (as opposed to a 1.5 ton car), I'm pretty sure ditching 2/3 of the battery weight would significantly affect its range. Probably the cost of the bike too. These $30k EVs that are tiny and ugly and only practical in a very specific scenario aren't a very good product for most people, if you ask me. But if you're already used to commuting on a bike, and could get an EBike with decent range for a decent price, I think it could be a great fit for a number of people. I'd say bikes generally average twice the MPG of cars. If that carries over to EBikes as well, and you're getting twice as much distance out of the same size battery, that means you can halve the battery size and charging time too. Under that assumption, the standard 240V Leaf charger (6.6-7.2kW) could give a bike ~40 miles of range with 1 hour of charging. Again, that doesn't help when you're out cruising around enjoying the nice weather, but it sure makes a commuter EBike seem a lot less gimmicky. I think it's a lot easier to justify buying a commuter-only EBike for $10k than a commuter-only EV for $30k.

[alex.s]

what kind of motor is on the zero? fixed coil i assume... but is it just a tripole? i dont understand how they could claim 97% efficiency... that seems like bollocks to me

[SteveL]

The motors will be three phase( or more ) brushless under computer control and they do get 90% plus efficiency.

Steve

[liberpolly]

Smaller capacity battery isn't charging faster.

[spooph]

http://lightningmotorcycle.com/

bingo on the 3-phase AC motor, which also makes regen braking easier.

concerning maintenance, if you have the time, you could rebuild the motor, but I highly doubt it's worth the time. Hand-wound armatures have historically been better than machine wound, although I'm sure they can improve the production process, as they'd need to for economies of scale...

Once they have a 300 mile range at high way speeds, I'm in.

[AlanDog]

Originally Posted by adouglas

- Commuting. I'm 17 miles from my office and can take either a mixed highway/back road route or all twisty back roads. Overall average speeds, including traffic signals, are in the 35-40 mph range.

If I stay off the freeway, my Zero S has a true range of 100 miles (ie, I get home and still have 10%+ capacity). I have a 24 mile round trip commute and I can do three days back and forth no problem without charging. But... 1) the freeway sucks the battery bad, at 70 mph the range is around 60 miles, and 2) the standard charge time is like 8-10 hours, and so trackdays are almost impossible without having a fast charger ($1500-$4000 more) or having a second bike to ride, or just sitting out a few hours mid-day...

I do have a second bike, so my estimate is I could do two sessions in the morning, charge it 11am-3:40pm, and have the last two sessions on it.... maybe. If you roughly estimate that it will run one hour under hard throttle (60 miles x 60 miles/hour), it seems you could get three sessions for sure, but how much charge you could gain in 3-4 hours, I'm not sure.

The suspension on the 2014 Zero S is awesome, and the newer bikes are even supposed to be better... however, I have real issues with the bike geometry/turn-in and the brakes, still trying to dial them in. But overall, very happy.

[adouglas]

At a track day you'll ride either 15 or 20 minutes out of each hour, depending on how many groups there are.

Would plugging a bike in between session be workable?

There's also the issue of power availability. Not all tracks have power in the paddock. Can the charger run off a portable generator?

[choneofakind]

Lol, I'd be worried about making it a whole session if I were at I or A pace...

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Can the charger run off a portable generator?

Based on their specs page, you need a 15A circuit (12A continuous) for it, which seems pretty standard for 120V charging (the Volt defaults to 8A for safety, but can be set to 12A, depending on whether your outlet is on a 12A or 15A circuit). It's a beefy household circuit, so it probably depends on your generator.

It's kinda funny to think about using a portable gas generator to recharge an EV (says the guy who bought an EV with a builtin gas generator).


For some more comparison to the Volt, the Zero S gets 76mi on 8.3kWh or 102mi on 11.0kWh (depending on which battery size you get). The Volt gets 38mi on 10.4kWh. While the Volt (and other EVs) get about 3.5mi/kWh, the Zero is up over 9mi/kWh. It looks like the standard ICE bike:car efficiency ratio still stands even after switching to electric (maybe even more).

The Volt and older Leaf use 3.3kW chargers, which on these cars is about 10mi of travel for each hour charged. The Zero uses a 1.3kW charger which should get it about 12mi/hr. If they used a 3.3kW charger in a Zero, you could get about 31mi/hr. You can get additional external chargers to boost the charging speed, but I wonder how much extra it would cost to just build a bigger "EV" charger into the bike. I would personally prefer a bike with a standard J1772 charging setup (to take advantage of public charging stations and the beefy EVSE I already have in my garage), rather than a special external charger that only used 120V. It would add some cost, complexity, and weight to the bike, but it would make it much more usable with existing charging infrastructure. That's less important on a track bike, but I think it's huge on a commuter.

[AlanDog]

Originally Posted by adouglas

At a track day you'll ride either 15 or 20 minutes out of each hour, depending on how many groups there are.

Would plugging a bike in between session be workable?

There's also the issue of power availability. Not all tracks have power in the paddock. Can the charger run off a portable generator?

Right, but fully discharging at track pace takes 60 minutes (my estimate) but fully charging takes 8-10 hours. So your charge rate is 1/8 your discharge rate. After 3 sessions, you'll get 2 hours of charging (3x40 min--actually less as you can't instantaeously arrive at the start line), but that will only give you about 20% of charge = 12 minutes.

So now you'll be able to do 12 minutes of the next session, or in other words, you can't do the next session... actually, that would be lunchtime, so you'll get an extra hour, giving you ~20 minutes total of run time (if all these estimates were correct...). So it seems I could get 4 sessions.... maybe.

Welcome to range anxiety.

Honda generator on the back? Or a realllllyyy long extension cord?

Fast chargers are available, I think you can get 3-4x faster charge, for a price...