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Old April 20th, 2014, 07:30 PM   #1
mrudich
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Exclamation Blown fuse. Then another.

Today on the way from home from a couple-hour ride, my motorcycle randomly shut off. I pulled over onto the side of the road and couldn't get the power on, so I pulled off the left fairing piece and checked the fuses (Surprisingly the first thing I did was the correct thing...) and the main one was blown. So I grabbed on of the spares from fuse-box and proceeded to replace the blown one. (I had no idea what I was doing. Never worked with fuses before. I now realize this was probably not the right thing to do...) and the second I tried to connect it all the new fuse blew. (The 30 amp one) so I had to push it home.
Luckily I was only a couple blocks away instead of two hours away.. Yay? I guess??

I haven't looked at much else yet. But I don't have any more fuses and I have no idea what the problem is. I've never had any other fuse problems so far.
Anyways.. What might be the problem???
Also where can I get a new fuse/what kind?

P.s. This is slightly urgent as this is my only method of transportation. It is my only vehicle...

Thanks!
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Old April 20th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mrudich View Post
.......P.s. This is slightly urgent as this is my only method of transportation. It is my only vehicle...
The fuse is to protect your wires and switches whenever the electricity finds a way to travel from the + post of the battery to the chassis (ground) without going through a consumer (bulb, ignition, etc.).

You need to find this point before you can replace the fuse.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #3
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My method is to work back through what I have done recently.

Any mods that affected the electrical?
Any maintenance that involved replacing body parts that may have pinched wires?
Any work done at all that may have moved or disconnected a wire?

Before just continuing to put new fuses in (which to answer your question is take the existing blown one to an auto parts store and ask the nice folks for the same thing), is to really look through each and every wire to determine where the short is.

Until you solve that, you will just waste money on new fuses and put yourself at risk depending on what and where the problem is.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 08:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaWolf View Post
My method is to work back through what I have done recently.

Any mods that affected the electrical?
Any maintenance that involved replacing body parts that may have pinched wires?
Any work done at all that may have moved or disconnected a wire?
I haven't done any work to the electrical really. I did look at it a bit earlier today but I tried not to mess with it much. I didn't do any mods or anything like that. There's a chance that I pinched a wire or something with the fairings I guess. I did take some off and on today. I'll look at that.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 09:09 PM   #5
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I took off all my fairings and inspected all of the wires that I can see.. I don't really know what I'm doing.. Haha.....
I just took the fairings off and looked at the wires and stuff.. I don't know what any of it is supposed to look like. But nothing looks wrong. No broken/frayed wires or anything. No connectors were disconnected. No wires pinched that I could tell. I really have no idea why the fuse blew..
Any ideas??
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Old April 20th, 2014, 09:20 PM   #6
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I took off all my fairings and inspected all of the wires that I can see.. I don't really know what I'm doing.. Haha.....
I just took the fairings off and looked at the wires and stuff.. I don't know what any of it is supposed to look like. But nothing looks wrong. No broken/frayed wires or anything. No connectors were disconnected. No wires pinched that I could tell. I really have no idea why the fuse blew..
Any ideas??
The 30A fuse protects the wires that go from the battery to the ignition switch and then to the fuse box.
There is an improper path to ground along that portion of the main circuit.
The problem is not located downstream the fuse box; otherwise one of the individual fuses had melted.

Please see this link and study the diagrams to follow the circuit carefully:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_check_the_fuses
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Old April 20th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
The 30A fuse protects the wires that go from the battery to the ignition switch and then to the fuse box.
There is an improper path to ground along that portion of the main circuit.
The problem is not located downstream the fuse box; otherwise one of the individual fuses had melted.

Please see this link and study the diagrams to follow the circuit carefully:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_check_the_fuses
hmmmm. Okay.. I followed the wires from the battery and the wires from the 30a fuse box as much as I could and didn't see anything wrong (although I could probably easily miss something....)

I looked at the link and it doesn't have a specific info for the 30a fuse, only the 10a ones. Also the diagrams are a little confusing.... I've never really done any work with wiring or anything of the sort. I haven't done much of my own work on my bike for that matter.. I'm a super-noob..
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Old April 21st, 2014, 06:07 AM   #8
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Disconnect your battery, have a look at the ground wire, chase it til you find where it contacts the frame and make sure it's tight also check for any corrosion. Then re-install the 30amp fuse, reconnect the battery and see what happens.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 08:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mrudich View Post
hmmmm. Okay.. I followed the wires from the battery and the wires from the 30a fuse box as much as I could and didn't see anything wrong (although I could probably easily miss something....)

I looked at the link and it doesn't have a specific info for the 30a fuse, only the 10a ones. Also the diagrams are a little confusing.... I've never really done any work with wiring or anything of the sort. I haven't done much of my own work on my bike for that matter.. I'm a super-noob..
Sorry for the late response, Mateo.

Follow DaBlue1's advice above.

If you don't have experience, you only have two choices: either learn the how-to or pay someone to troubleshoot and repair your bike as needed.

We can help you if you take choice 1.

If you don't have one, you need to buy a cheap voltmeter ($5 Harbor Freight).
Then, you can use the Ohm feature as the fuse while testing the most suspicious wires.

The 30A is shown in the schematics, by the starter solenoid.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:56 PM   #10
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Is your main fuse blowing with the key in the off position? Or does did it hold until turning the key on? That may narrow it down to the wiring you'll have to check.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 12:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Is your main fuse blowing with the key in the off position? Or does did it hold until turning the key on? That may narrow it down to the wiring you'll have to check.
It blows with the key in the off position.

I did disconnect the battery and visually inspect all of the wires. Then I put a new fuse in and plugged it all back together. It seemed to work so I started riding again. It worked up until this morning when I was at school where it blew as I was parking. I had to get it towed home....

I also noticed that during the times (3 of them) that it has blown while I was riding it was always when I had the clutch pulled in. I have no idea if this is of any significance...
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Old April 24th, 2014, 05:11 AM   #12
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It blows with the key in the off position.
That greatly simplifies things.

According to the wiring diagram, the white wire coming out of the Main fuse goes only to the R/R (so it can charge the battery), the ignition switch (splits into white and white/black at the ignition switch) and the fusebox for the radiator fan. You can pull the Fan fuse and I believe the bike will run without the R/R plugged in. That should help narrow down what area the problem is in.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 08:59 PM   #13
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I also noticed that during the times (3 of them) that it has blown while I was riding it was always when I had the clutch pulled in. I have no idea if this is of any significance...
Hmmm. Have you had the fuel tank off lately? Is your clutch cable sheathing worn through just behind the steering neck and maybe the actual cable is chaffing some of the electrical wiring under there? All the cables and wiring runs near each other just under the tank and near the frame. Just a thought....
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Old April 25th, 2014, 12:34 PM   #14
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That greatly simplifies things.

According to the wiring diagram, the white wire coming out of the Main fuse goes only to the R/R (so it can charge the battery), the ignition switch (splits into white and white/black at the ignition switch) and the fusebox for the radiator fan. You can pull the Fan fuse and I believe the bike will run without the R/R plugged in. That should help narrow down what area the problem is in.
Aagghhh I don't know what I'm doing and I can't afford to take it to someone so looks like I'll be doing it myself....

Sorry if I'm so noob-ish... But what is the R/R? I really know nothing about what I'm doing.... Also I don't quite understand what is being said... I'm apparently really bad at understanding wiring and stuff... So if I know maybe WHERE the problem is, how do I figure out WHAT the problem is?
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Old April 25th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #15
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Hmmm. Have you had the fuel tank off lately? Is your clutch cable sheathing worn through just behind the steering neck and maybe the actual cable is chaffing some of the electrical wiring under there? All the cables and wiring runs near each other just under the tank and near the frame. Just a thought....
I haven't had the fuel tank off lately. I've actually never taken it off. I don't think the clutch cable is worn through... at least it doesn't look worn from what I can see.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 01:11 PM   #16
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...what is the R/R?
Regulator/rectifier.

I'd start troubleshooting with your clutch safety switch.
Then troubleshoot your fan switch and ignition switch/starter button. If you are blowing fuses with the ignition in the off position, it means the ignition circuit is still getting power somehow and attempting to complete the circuit.
The fan is the only component that should be able to run with the ignition off.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_doe...system_work%3F
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleanin..._clutch_switch
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Old April 25th, 2014, 01:15 PM   #17
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The R/R is the regulator/rectifier. It takes the alternating current coming from the stator (similar in function to a car's generator), converts it to direct current, and sends it to the battery, lights, etc., as needed, and dumps the excess as heat. That's why the R/R has cooling fins on it.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 04:36 PM   #18
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Regulator/rectifier.

I'd start troubleshooting with your clutch safety switch.
Then troubleshoot your fan switch and ignition switch/starter button. If you are blowing fuses with the ignition in the off position, it means the ignition circuit is still getting power somehow and attempting to complete the circuit.
The fan is the only component that should be able to run with the ignition off.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_doe...system_work%3F
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleanin..._clutch_switch
I'm not sure if it's just me being unable to figure it out (which may be likely..), but I don't understand how to check the clutch safety switch. The majority of the instructions require the fuse to be working and the bike to be on. Which is the problem that I'm trying to solve. And the part about using the multimeter to test does;t make any sense for some reason... I don't know which wires/where to put the multimeter. Maybe diagrams would help? I don't know. But I can't figure out how to test it.


Also how would either of those effect the fuse?
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Old April 25th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #19
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It also seems from most of the links you provided that the safety switch would affect its ability to start once the power is on, but the problem is not getting the engine running, it's before that because the fuse blown and then turning the key to the on position does nothing and I can't even get to the point where I'm trying to get the engine running.
I may be wrong about all of this, but I'm just a little bit confused.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 07:21 PM   #20
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.... I don't know which wires/where to put the multimeter. Maybe diagrams would help?.........
1) Current is desperately trying to travel from + to - of the battery.

2) Current has to flow from + in the battery through wires, fuses, switches, consumers (light bulbs, CDI, starter, coils, spark plugs) and more wires back to - in the battery in order to do its work as needed.

3) When the current finds an easy path that does not have an open switch or consumer, it flows like crazy, burning your fuse and even the wires if the fuse is too small for the job.

Your current case is #3.

All voltmeters have a resistance function (Ohms), which can sense if there is a consumer or open switch between both legs of that instrument.

If you disconnect + to - of the battery from their wires and then install a new fuse, you could use that function of the voltmeter to find that easy path.

Zero Ohms means bad news and your fuse will blow forever until you find and eliminate that leak.

Please see these links:
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Ohmmeter

http://www.ehow.com/how_12188754_che...ultimeter.html

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:28 PM   #21
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Possibility of a malfunctioning R/R??

I bought the CLYMER service manual and its been quite helpful. (I haven't figured it out yet though..)

The R/R was mentioned so I decided to test that. And I tried following the directions and it appears that it's not functioning properly? On all of the tests that the ohms were supposed to equal infinity, the meter read nothing. (I used both a digital and analog and the analog needle didn't move and the digital just remained at 0.L?) And according to the manual that means it's faulty..
But if the R/R was actually broken, wouldn't my battery be in poor shape? I tested my battery and it's at the correct voltage and it seems to be in pretty perfect condition.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:34 PM   #22
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What R/R stands for?
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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:37 PM   #23
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What R/R stands for?
Regulator/Rectifier
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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:44 PM   #24
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Regulator/Rectifier
Then, disconnecting that will tell you if the short is in there or somewhere else.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:48 PM   #25
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Then, disconnecting that will tell you if the short is in there or somewhere else.
It's currently unplugged because I was testing it, but how will I know if the short is there or somewhere else?
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Old April 29th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #26
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It's currently unplugged because I was testing it, but how will I know if the short is there or somewhere else?
If the instrument measures some resistance now, the problem is the disconnected device.

This is how:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...5&postcount=20
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Old April 29th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #27
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If the instrument measures some resistance now, the problem is the disconnected device.

This is how:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...5&postcount=20
I watched the video, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that only to find out where a parasitic draw is coming from? And my battery is in fine condition. Also when I connect the multimeter to the battery in the same setup the reading is just 0.00.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #28
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Keep it simple, look for signs of every wire being chafed, burned pinched, this will include removing tape etc. Have you done that yet? What are there any wires twisted connected all ghetto rigged?
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:09 PM   #29
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I watched the video, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that only to find out where a parasitic draw is coming from? And my battery is in fine condition. Also when I connect the multimeter to the battery in the same setup the reading is just 0.00.
Yes a slow drain is basically the same thing than a short.
The difference is in the intensity of the flow of electrons, which we know as Amperes.

The Ohms are the measurement of the difficulty that that flow of electrons "feels" since they leave the + post of the battery until they return to the - pole.

Then Amperes = Volts / Ohms

Volts are always around 12 in your bike.

Your 30 A fuse melted because it was part of the path of the electrons between + and -.
How much resistance those electrons felt?

Let's say that 40 Amperes melted that poor devil (the 30 A fuse).

Then, the resistance was less than Volts / Amperes.

Resistance < 12 volts / 40 Amps = 0.30 Ohms

A slow drain is in the order of 0.01 Amps.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:12 PM   #30
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Also with the rectifyer/regulator unplugges, doe.tj fuse.blow? You can use.smaller fuses for testing if you ran out of 30s.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #31
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The most common place for a key off short is the ignition switch wiring as it gets bent back and forth with steering. Just a thought.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:32 PM   #32
flitecontrol
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This doesn't always work, but when it does, it saves a lot of time and frustration.

Replace the fuse. Wait until it's dark. Get an assistant to stand on the other side of the bike. Turn the key on and listen for a "pop" and look for a quick flash of light. If you can see the flash, or hear where the pop comes from, that's where the short is.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 08:00 PM   #33
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I didn't really read through all the posts however it is a grounding issue, if you have not touched anything then make sure that first off the negative to the battery is tight. Next start checking grounds, and check the battery if there is crud anywhere clean it off, it may not be making a good connection, which in turn means it will not send power then send power then that can blow the fuse. If the grounds look good check the positive cable, especially in pinch points. The wire can become framed, if that cable touches something metal (like your frame) it will ground it out, eventually blowing the fuse.
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Old July 30th, 2020, 12:11 AM   #34
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Did u fix the problem, I am suffering same problem can u pls let me know how u solve thankyou
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Old July 30th, 2020, 08:26 AM   #35
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HI Sobin and welcome to Ninjette!

This thread has numerous suggestions, but not the 100% sure way to find this issue. That requires these two items.

First is getting factory workshop manual for this bike. The wiring-diagram will give you map of circuits which can be used in troubleshooting this problem.

Second is to get multimeter and learn to use it to measure voltage and resistance (perhaps also current):

Link to original page on YouTube.

Once that's done, you can measure resistance between various parts of system to find short. You can back-probe connector to touch terminal of these wires.

1. measure resistance between battery negative-terminal and WHITE wire leaving starter-solenoid plug. What resistance (ohms) reading do you get?

2. measure resistance between battery negative-terminal and BROWN wire leaving ignition-switch. What resistance (ohms) reading do you get?

Repeat above measurements while wiggling harness gently between battery and ignition-switch. Go 20cm at a time and travel towards ignition-switch. Then from ignition-switch to fusebox. At some point, multimeter readings will change. That's most likely where short-circuit is located. Could be frayed wires rubbing on each other or frame of bike. Might need to unwrap harness at that section and take closer look.

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