Weird stall problem

[jgcable]

Wasn't paying attention and I stalled while on a main road rolling to a traffic light. On my other bikes I would just hit the start button and be on my way. I tried this with my Ninja and nothing happened. I had the bike in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in coasting and the starter button was not working. I had to quickly put the bike in neutral and I hit the button and it started right up. Is this normal. This is the first time I have ever stalled this bike so a re-fire is a new thing to me.

[Flying]

The kickstand/neutral sensors are kinda wonky on these bikes. Next time try flipping the kickstand even if its up.


Or just don't stall and take that as negative reinforcement.

[jgcable]

did it again toay. i stalled at a light and it wouldn't refire. i tried everything. kickstand down and up, clutch in and out, in gear, in neutral...i rolled into a parking lot, shut the key off, put the kickstand down and acted like it was the first time i was starting the bike. i put it in neutral, hit the button and it fired right up. i don't get it. If i was riding and the engine stalled i should be able to pull in the clutch and start the bike without having to stop right? What should I look for. I tested the kickstand switch. The bike stalls if I put it down. It won't start in gear without the clutch pulled in. What else should I check?

[Linkin]

I stalled at a red light this morning. The engine was cold as I was running late, and I had the choke off (didn't let it warm up enough). Idle was slowing down, as soon as I gave it a tiny amount of stick, it died.

Took me 3 tries to get it started again. Didn't use the choke. Just tried, let the battery do its recharge thing (manual states give it 5 seconds between each start attempt) and tried again. Lucky the light was red otherwyse I would have a lot of grumpy drivers behind me

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jgcable

............If i was riding and the engine stalled i should be able to pull in the clutch and start the bike without having to stop right? What should I look for. I tested the kickstand switch. The bike stalls if I put it down. It won't start in gear without the clutch pulled in. What else should I check?

If the engine stalls while is pulling in gear, then, you have an urgent problem to solve (electrical or carburetors).

Otherwise, take a look at these:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_side...27t_work_right

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checkin..._safety_switch

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleanin..._clutch_switch

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by Motofool

If the engine stalls while is pulling in gear, then, you have an urgent problem to solve (electrical or carburetors).

Otherwise, take a look at these:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_side...27t_work_right

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checkin..._safety_switch

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleanin..._clutch_switch

the engine didnt stall whhile pulling. I was coasting to a light, the rpms came down as normalbut they dipped a little and it stalled.
it happened again today. this time it was dangeerous because i was in busy traffic. It stalled while sitting at a light idling. I tried everything and I couldnt get it to turn over. It waos as if the sidestand was down but it wasn't. I tried pulling in the clutch in gear and in neutral. I had to turn the key off, put the bike in neutral, turn the key on and as soon as I hit the button it fired right up. I did a test in the garage. I started the bike and I dropped the idle with the idle .knob so it would stall. I hit the button and it instantly started

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jgcable

the engine didn't stall while pulling. I was coasting to a light, the rpms came down as normal but they dipped a little and it stalled.
it happened again today. this time it was dangerous because i was in busy traffic. It stalled while sitting at a light idling. I tried everything and I couldn't get it to turn over. It was as if the sidestand was down but it wasn't. I tried pulling in the clutch in gear and in neutral. I had to turn the key off, put the bike in neutral, turn the key on and as soon as I hit the button it fired right up. I did a test in the garage. I started the bike and I dropped the idle with the idle .knob so it would stall. I hit the button and it instantly started

What was the idle speed set at?

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

What was the idle speed set at?

it was set at around 1400, but i am not concerned about the stalling. i am concerned about the total lack of refire.

[CZroe]

My clutch lever switch has acted up before requiring me to start in neutral.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jgcable

the engine didnt stall whhile pulling. I was coasting to a light, the rpms came down as normalbut they dipped a little and it stalled.
it happened again today. this time it was dangeerous because i was in busy traffic. It stalled while sitting at a light idling. I tried everything and I couldnt get it to turn over. It waos as if the sidestand was down but it wasn't. I tried pulling in the clutch in gear and in neutral. I had to turn the key off, put the bike in neutral, turn the key on and as soon as I hit the button it fired right up. I did a test in the garage. I started the bike and I dropped the idle with the idle .knob so it would stall. I hit the button and it instantly started

Do I understand it correctly?

The engine stalls only when hot and let to idle while in gear=> Lack or weak sparks at low rpms

The engine cannot be re-started while in gear by clutching out while the bike is moving => Lack or weak sparks at low rpms

Miraculously, the engine fires up when normal starting procedure in neutral.

If you checked my previous links, you will see that either your kickstand or your clutch switches are defective, as evidently the neutral switch is working properly:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...unning_Problem

The sparks fire up when:
in neutral, with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Do I understand it correctly?

The engine stalls only when hot and let to idle while in gear=> Lack or weak sparks at low rpms

The engine cannot be re-started while in gear by clutching out while the bike is moving => Lack or weak sparks at low rpms

Miraculously, the engine fires up when normal starting procedure in neutral.

If you checked my previous links, you will see that either your kickstand or your clutch switches are defective, as evidently the neutral switch is working properly:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...unning_Problem

The sparks fire up when:
in neutral, with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in

Its not a stall condition I am worried about. My bike runs excellent. I put 350 miles on it this weekend and it only stalled twice. Once was because I didn't warm it up for more than 10 seconds before I took off. The other time was because I was messing around with the idle speed knob at a traffic light.
What I am concerned about is a refire after a stall. Say for instance I can't hear the bike while I am stopped and I stall it in error. I should be able to pull the clutch in, hit the button and restart. One time when I first started riding back in 2007 I had a 2001 Ninja 250r. I was on the highway doing about 60 and the bike sputtered and died while I was on a bridge. I realized I had run out of gas so I pulled the clutch in, reached down while still coasting at about 40mph and I turned the petcock to reserve and hit the start button and she fired back up and I was able to make it home. It was scary but I was able to do it. With this bike.. once it stalls.. it won't restart unless I put it in neutral, release the clutch and hit the start button. That can't be correct.

[csmith12]

It's not correct. Check your bits I got video of me just flicking the switch from off to on (free free to laugh) during a race and the bike refires and off I go. Yours should be the same.

[jgcable]

From what I read... it appears I have a faulty clutch switch. I tested my kickstand switch and the bike stalls if I put the kickstand down while its running. My neutral safety switch works because when I put the bike in neutral the light comes on. That leaves only one switch. The clutch switch. I will order a new one and see if that solves the problem.

[csmith12]

Hope so

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hope so

Well, its not a faulty clutch switch.

Again.. to be as clear as possible.. I am riding the bike and the engine stalls... I pull the clutch in and hit the start button and its dead.. nothing happens. The start button will not work until I turn the bike off with the key, turn it back on and hit the start button again. Then it starts right up.

[DaBlue1]

Have you considered troubleshooting your electrical system?

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Have you considered troubleshooting your electrical system?

Its completely fine. Its the first thing I did.
The thing I can't understand is why.. if the bike stalls while at a stop light in gear with the clutch pulled in I can't just hit the start button and restart the bike. What would cause that?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Its completely fine. Its the first thing I did.
The thing I can't understand is why.. if the bike stalls while at a stop light in gear with the clutch pulled in I can't just hit the start button and restart the bike. What would cause that?

It can't be completely fine. Everything you are describing about your problem is electrical.

Have you checked every connection & switch (ignition included) ?
Here's an idea....An intermittently working ignition switch could be losing contact in the run position, that's probably why toggling it off then back on, restarts the bike.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

It can't be completely fine. Everything you are describing about your problem is electrical.

Have you checked every connection & switch (ignition included) ?
Here's an idea....An intermittently working ignition switch could be losing contact in the run position, that's probably why toggling it off then back on, restarts the bike.

That's the next thing I need to check. Thanks.

[jgcable]

OK, I think I have narrowed it down. My bike will not start if its in gear with the clutch pulled in under any circumstance. If I put it in neutral and release the clutch it starts right up. What would cause this?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jgcable

OK, I think I have narrowed it down. My bike will not start if its in gear with the clutch pulled in under any circumstance. If I put it in neutral and release the clutch it starts right up. What would cause this?

Originally Posted by Motofool

.....If you checked my previous links, you will see that either your kickstand or your clutch switches are defective, as evidently the neutral switch is working properly:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...unning_Problem

The sparks fire up when:
in neutral, with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in

[jgcable]

Mine does this...

It will start with the side stand down, clutch in or out, in neutral
It will start with the side stand up, clutch in or out, in neutral

It will not start if the bike in in gear under any circumstances.

If the bike is in gear and running and I put the kickstand down it stalls.
If the bike is in neutral and running and I put the kickstand down it stays running.

So? Whats the verdict?

[CZroe]

As stated before: bad or broken clutch lever switch. Mine got dusty on Glendora Mountain Road and stopped working for a while.

[Linkin]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Mine does this...

It will start with the side stand down, clutch in or out, in neutral
It will start with the side stand up, clutch in or out, in neutral

It will not start if the bike in in gear under any circumstances.

If the bike is in gear and running and I put the kickstand down it stalls.
If the bike is in neutral and running and I put the kickstand down it stays running.

So? Whats the verdict?

Except for the bolded one, working as normal. Dodgy kickstand sensor is my vote.

The bike should start in gear, kickstand up, clutch in.

[crazymadbastard]

Next time jiggle the clutch switch and should start. Crimp the connectors so you have a tight fit at the lever. Mine does the same thing.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Linkin

Except for the bolded one, working as normal. Dodgy kickstand sensor is my vote.

The bike should start in gear, kickstand up, clutch in.

No, because then it would kick off as soon as he puts in in gear and not when he drops the kickstand. It's the clutch lever switch.

[Kscreations08]

so I started parking the bike in gear (shortcut being just roll up to you rparking spot with the clutch in and put your kickstand down) about 30% of the time, the bike doesnt shut off. This is in gear, clutch pulled in, attempt the kill engine with kickstand.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by Linkin

Except for the bolded one, working as normal. Dodgy kickstand sensor is my vote.

The bike should start in gear, kickstand up, clutch in.

If my bike is in gear... it won't start with the clutch pulled in or out regardless of whether the kickstand is up or down. If it is running in gear and I put the kickstand down it stalls as it should. If I try to start it in gear with the kickstand down it will not start. The bike MUST be in neutral in order for it to be started.

[Linkin]

I've started mine in first with the stand up and clutch in

[DaBlue1]

Here are your options- Replace or Repair the faulty switches. After more than 10 years of being exposed to various conditions and extremes, they may need a little TLC or Total Replacement

Cleaning and servicing the clutch switch-"If the contacts get clogged up with dust, the clutch switch could stop working. Most of the time, it just starts making really annoying grinding sounds and the switch starts offering resistance to the motion of the clutch. But if you get enough guck in the switch, the bike won't start with the clutch pulled in."


SWITCH,CLUTCH,BLACK 27010-1094


SWITCH,SIDE STAND 27010-1223

[Alex]

Seems pretty clear that it's the clutch switch. Have you looked at it to make sure that it is pressing that little nubbin correctly? Is it pressing in and out when the clutch lever is pulled and released?

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by Alex

Seems pretty clear that it's the clutch switch. Have you looked at it to make sure that it is pressing that little nubbin correctly? Is it pressing in and out when the clutch lever is pulled and released?

Yea, it is smooth and set up correctly. I need to test it today. I am going to take it apart too and test it with my Fluke Multimeter to see if the switch is working correctly. My guess is it must be broken internally because externally it looks and works perfectly.

[jgcable]

Well, I disconnected the plug and checked the switch with my meter. It appears to be working fine. When I squeeze my brake lever I hear a little click. When I squeeze my clutch lever I hear nothing. I couldn't remove the switch because the 2 screws that hold it in are so soft they stripped the second I put pressure on them.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Well, I disconnected the plug and checked the switch with my meter. It appears to be working fine. When I squeeze my brake lever I hear a little click. When I squeeze my clutch lever I hear nothing. I couldn't remove the switch because the 2 screws that hold it in are so soft they stripped the second I put pressure on them.

Check the wiring to/from the switch. See if alternately grounding the positive terminal to the frame does anything.

[jgcable]

Seems to me that this clutch safety switch is just plain stupid. I have owned probably 30 different motorcycles since I started riding and the Ninja 250r is the only one I ever owned that couldn't be accidently started in gear. I would never think of trying to start a bike that wasn't visibly in neutral with the clutch released or in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in.
I can understand it being important for a new rider but after you have started motorcycles 20,000+ times over the years it doesn't seem to have any value.
I will try to trace the issue but if I can't find it easily I am going to just jump the two contacts together and not worry about it anymore.

[Alex]

Every street motorcycle has these same lockouts, and has for many years now. It's not a Kawi choice; they are DOT requirements.

What is somewhat unique to Kawis is how often the cheapo switches fail, and cause weird behavior like you're experiencing. It's not limited to the 250/300's, the same parts fail just as often on the more high dollar bikes (10R's, 14R's, older 12R's, etc.)

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by Alex

Every street motorcycle has these same lockouts, and has for many years now. It's not a Kawi choice; they are DOT requirements.

What is somewhat unique to Kawis is how often the cheapo switches fail, and cause weird behavior like you're experiencing. It's not limited to the 250/300's, the same parts fail just as often on the more high dollar bikes (10R's, 14R's, older 12R's, etc.)

Yea... its a cheaply made switch for sure. Do you think that having no freeplay in my clutch lever could effect the throw of that switch enough? I don't have any freeplay in my clutch lever at all which I just realized is incorrect. I need to have a little less than 1/8" of it. Could that make a difference?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jgcable

..... Do you think that having no freeplay in my clutch lever could effect the throw of that switch enough? I don't have any freeplay in my clutch lever at all which I just realized is incorrect. I need to have a little less than 1/8" of it. Could that make a difference?

The clutch lever if adjusted correctly, will not touch the nub on the switch and let it all the way out, when the lever is pulled in.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

The clutch lever if adjusted correctly, will not touch the nub on the switch and let it all the way out, when the lever is pulled in.

I will check that as soon as I get home.

[jgcable]

UPDATE!!! Fixed. I removed the switch, took it apart, it was spotless inside and worked perfectly. I added some dialectric grease for good measure. What I noticed was when the clutch lever was completely squeezed in the plunger on the switch still had about 1/8" of travel left in it. That 1/8" of travel was what was preventing the switch to work correctly. I removed the switch, got out the dremel and removed about 1/8 of the plunger. Now.. when the clutch is completely squeezed in its not hitting the plunger. It works perfectly. Now.. the bike will start in gear as long as the clutch lever is squeezed in all the way.