Interested in getting into bikes!

[Rangingbata]

I'm sure I'm not the first 17 year old you've had join asking about ninja 250s, but I do know that I want to learn everything I can about the bike (I'm not good mechanically, but would love to learn to work on my own bike) but overall, I'm just a new rider hungry for information!

[BlownWideOpen]

So are you already riding, or interested in purchasing a bike? Confusing thread is confusing

[Rangingbata]

Interested in riding, sorry for that.

[BlownWideOpen]

Start reading, good place to start

https://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Category:Pre-gen_Bikes

https://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Index

[ninjamunky85]

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle before? If not my advice is to pick up a small dirt bike to learn on. Nothin' fancy, just something cheap that runs. That way you can learn to ride without having to worry about traffic.

Also would be a good way to learn about working on bikes, since they are easy to work on.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Best recommendation other than what's been said is to look into your local MSF courses for the Beginner course. That will teach all the basics you will need to start riding safely.

In NJ they also gave you the voucher for you motorcycle endorsement so you don't need to take the DMV test. Not sure what the laws and licensing age in your state is.

[csmith12]

^^^^ this

Do the MSF first and If you feel that riding is for you, then you're on your way.

Welcome too!

[snot]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^^^ this

Do the MSF first and If you feel that riding is for you, then you're on your way.

Welcome too!

+2

[JohnnyBravo]

You don't have to be a mechanical genius to work on these things... If ya don't know the steps you're gonna need a PDF, book, YouTube, here, or one of the many other sources to reference. Welcome to Ninjette, an the ride of your life

[Rangingbata]

For the MSF course, would the "Basic RiderCourse" or the "H-D New Rider Course" be better? I am assuming the new rider, but am not entirely sure...

As to the dirtbike option, that does sound like something I should do (plus dirtbikes are fun to have on my grandparents farm, they need variety from their ATVs)

Thanks for all the welcomes!

[csmith12]

It's really up to you but check to ensure the HD Rider course will give you the DMV voucher for your license, some do, some don't. The BRC (Basic Rider Course) is commonly referred to as the MSF. Both the HD New Rider and BRC are targeted to a rider who has never been on a bike before.

Here is what I would do in your shoes. If you are interested in a ninja 250 as your first bike, then make a few phone calls to training facilities that offer the BRC. Some of those facilities may have a ninja 250 that you can use for the course. The HD version will almost surely only have... well HD's . But don't pass up the chance to sit on a few other bikes if they offer them.

[adouglas]

When I got into riding I did two things that turned out to be really smart:

1) Took the MSF basic rider course before buying my first bike

2) Took the course with my then-new wife, so she could see for herself what riding was all about. She's been fine with me riding ever since.

Doing the course with someone else is great fun... invite a parent, sibling, friend... it's not that expensive and the GIVE you a bike to ride! How cool is that?

You're gonna love this....

[Rangingbata]

According to the website, they both do license waivers, however as I am interested in the 250, I will call and ask if the BRC has one. I doubt I will prefer HD over sport though, so I'll probably stick to the BRC regardless.

[NevadaWolf]

Check with Missouri DOR to ensure they accept the waiver (wow, that website is not very helpful) or to just make sure you have everything covered before going in to get your permit/license.

Whatever bikes your local MSF course has will be good for a complete beginner, regardless if they have the Ninja 250 or not. My local course has a stable of Korean bikes, while another had a smattering of Japanese bikes ranging from cruisers to sport bikes. The basics are the same.

[alex.s]

start with msf. don't forget to save for track days. budget for gear before you get a bike. gear is a prerequisite not an accessory.

[Rangingbata]

Originally Posted by alex.s

start with msf. don't forget to save for track days. budget for gear before you get a bike. gear is a prerequisite not an accessory.

I have already began researching the gear, and it seems I need to budget around $600-700. However, if that number is off, please let me know (I am not against spending more on safety gear, "Buy nice or buy twice" and if buying twice means more risk to my life, then all the more reason to buy nice)

[alex.s]

dot/snell helmet - ~$100
good gloves - $50-$100
good boots - $150
reasonable jacket - $100-200

[csmith12]

No riding pants?

[Hero Danny]

I'm impartial towards the MSF course. They actually teach you some things that are not advisable. Such as, use all 4 fingers to pull in the front brake..

After riding for 3 months I took the MSF course and didn't get much out of it (except I was really happy I got a 10% discount on insurance +license)

The only thing they really taught me was low speed maneuvering (Don't put your foot down!) Mainly just stuff that will help you in a parking lot but isn't very necessary for safety.

I'd still recommend taking it though, getting your license + the 10% discount is great, also since you're a new rider you'll get a lot more out of it than I ever did.

[csmith12]

It's a 2 day beginner course on the range Danny, perhaps your expectations were a bit on the high side.

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

Such as, use all 4 fingers to pull in the front brake..

hmmm.... all 4 fingers

[LittleRedNinjette]

Originally Posted by csmith12

It's a 2 day beginner course on the range Danny, perhaps your expectations were a bit on the high side.



hmmm.... all 4 fingers

[spacemonkey]

I just took the MSF course and learned a few new things from it that I didn't know. I had ridden dirt bikes a long time ago and got my license back then but just picked up my first street bike a few months ago. If you have never been on a bike I think he MSF course is a great way to get a safe start and learn the basics. Like others had said take a friend it's a lot of fun.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by csmith12

It's a 2 day beginner course on the range Danny, perhaps your expectations were a bit on the high side.



hmmm.... all 4 fingers

But as a beginner isn't it safer to use 2? As 2 fingers will provide more than enough braking force while not running as much of a risk of locking the front wheel?

My expectations were too high, I'd admit to that.
I would love to take a course on how to go around the track, though. Too bad I heard those classes cost about $500

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

But as a beginner isn't it safer to use 2? As 2 fingers will provide more than enough braking force while not running as much of a risk of locking the front wheel?

My expectations were too high, I'd admit to that.
I would love to take a course on how to go around the track, though. Too bad I heard those classes cost about $500

As a coach, we feel it's safer to use all 4. It's not from the braking power perspective. It's from the safety perspective during the course. It's our job to help the new rider to control their machine, to keep things simple and to ensure the rider can pull hard enough for whatever... 4 fingers it is. Reason? Because there is no guarantee that you will ride the same bike the next day on the range. The 2 finger pull that a rider may remember from day one, make not work as well on a different bike on day two. Also since the MSF provides the bikes and we have no clue what kind of bike the student will end up riding at home, there is no point in teaching a sport bike specific skill. Especially since a lot of old cafe and HD don't even have a front brake, which they may have at home or buy later. Also, the coaches are not the riders at the end of the course, we do respect that it may be one's personal preference/comfort to use 4 fingers on the brake and the clutch or some variant of fingers. As long as you're safe and in control, we don't care what you do on the street after the course is over.

If you're interested in a track school, the total cost could very well be near $500. But actually, smaller schools such as Mid-Ohio offer a novice track day/school for $205. When you start to add in the cost of everything else, travel, hotel bla bla bla is when the cost goes up to near $500.

[Klondike1020]

They said it - The smartest way to get into motorcycling

Dirtbike - teaches you clutch, breaking and shifting - plus maintenance.
MSF - teaches you the basics and tells you the reality of the dangers
Gear- Buy it before you ride

My advice. - used gear on CRAIGSLIST or EBay will save you a lot of money if you shop around. Or go grab clearance at CYCLEgear . They have some amazing deals.

The down side about a dirt bike. You will need gear for that too. You end up buying a dirt bike and gear then paying for the msf and then buying a street bike and gear.

That can realllllly add up.

I recommend you buy a used bike on CL for super cheap while we are going into winter.
Spend the winter getting proper gear and making the bike in top notch mechanical condition. Take the MSF in spring . And then bam you are done.

Do you have proper tool? if you are want to develop mechanical skills. Start caring for your own car and other items. Build your tool kit.

Rules for a new grease monkey
1.)Lefty loosey and righty tighty. (except when said fastener is at the center of a spinning mass - then its usually opposite of rotation is tighten)
2.)Never EVER EVER FORCE anything
3.)Whatever you lack in knowledge you make up for in research!
4.)Patience and perseverance You must never rush or become impatient because that when things go wrong. Always step back, wait for the proper tools and parts.
5.)When you dont know, find someone who does, or at least come up with a good theory based on facts.



Another important ITEM. Never ride with people who pier pressure you or try to influence you in a bad way. Find a friend or person who is mature and experienced if you plan on ridding in groups or taking advice.

The guys who say "one burn out wont hurt anything" or "try to pop a wheelie, my cousin does it all the time" or "how fast can that thing go?> prove it" or "lets race"

Those are a few of the phrases that lead to trouble when you are a newb.

FINAL DISCLAIMER

Decide how interested are you in motorcycling as a sport and hobby.
It will cost you time and money for certain. It will not get you all the girls or make you as cool as the guy in a cigarette commercial. Have realistic expectations.

Also you will very possibly get hurt while ridding and I have met many people who give up after a broken collar bone.

Just like anything . You get out of it what you put into it.

It will either be one of the most rewarding things you ever do, or the most punishing thing you ever do.

Is the juice worth the squeeze? if yes . then you are in the right place because the people on this forum are the most helpful encouraging people you will ever meet on two wheels.

[KJohnson21]

I'd been riding for 20+ years before I took the MSF Advanced course. It helped me clean up some issues that I didn't really know I had with low to mid-speed maneuvers.

Lotta good discount gear out there if you shop around. Just make sure it's the real thing, not a fake look-alike. And you should only use a new helmet that fits you well.

Welcome to the party!!

[Rangingbata]

I read around a little before I joined, but I had no idea you guys would be this nice or helpful, based off of the little bit of information I gave. My reasoning for getting a bike is this: they look fun to ride, and practical in ways of much better gas. I don't plan on using it to try to be a "cool guy" (I do appreciate the concern there, though.)

Anything worth doing is risky, you just have to decide what is worth the risk. Something such as this, in my opinion, will be worth the risk.

So far, I have gotten this:
-I can buy used gear on anything EXCEPT helmet
-Buy a bike going into winter, when people are cleaning out their garage
-Fix up said bike, get gear over winter
-Take MSF/Permit test come spring
-Be driving it by mid-spring


What are the major things to look at when buying a used bike?
*I am looking exclusively at Ninja 250s*

[adouglas]

Since you say you're not good mechanically, it'll be hard for you to know what's good and what isn't. Do you have a friend who is mechanically inclined?

In general, trust your gut. If it feels like the seller isn't being honest, chances are he's not.

Here are some giveaways to tell if a bike has been abused/crashed:

- Almost nobody paints fairings to make the bike look good. They usually do it because it's been crashed.
- Check the bar ends, balls on the ends of the brake levers, turn signals, exhaust and foot pegs for scratches. Tip-overs leave tiny scratches. Crashes on the street leave long scratches. So if the guy tells you "oh, I just dropped it in the driveway" and you see an 8-inch-long abrasion on one side, you know he's lying.
- Brand-new levers often mean the old ones were damaged in a crash.
- Beware of half-baked mods. Some people would rather install HID headlights and LED kits than keep the bike in good shape.
- Likewise, look for half-baked redneck repairs. If a bolt falls out, it should be replaced with a proper bolt, not a zip tie or something from the hardware store. Someone who cares for their bike does it right.
- The chain should have NO rust. It should also not be massively caked with crud.
- Stick your finger in the tailpipe with the bike off. Finding soot is okay. Finding oil is bad.
- Start it and run it. Does it smell funny?
- Look in the oil sight glass. Honey colored and clear means the oil just got changed. Black is okay. Milky is bad.

In general, within obvious limits you can tell if a bike's been well taken care of just by looking closely at it. People who neglect maintenance also neglect cleanliness. A bike that's really ratty on the outside probably hasn't been maintained.

Walk away from flaky "stories" about the bike's history. There are many bikes out there... be patient and pick a good one. Spend a little more for the better bike. Don't nickel and dime yourself.

The best bikes are bone-stock, owned by adults (of either gender), clean, and undamaged.

[Rangingbata]

Between work and school, I am sure I know someone who is mechanically inclined, if they're good with cars would they have the ability to distinguish the good from the bad on a bike?

The things you mentioned are ones that I think I could do on my own, it seems like $2k is the average price for a used 250 in my area (Eastern Missouri.)

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by Rangingbata

I read around a little before I joined, but I had no idea you guys would be this nice or helpful, based off of the little bit of information I gave. My reasoning for getting a bike is this: they look fun to ride, and practical in ways of much better gas. I don't plan on using it to try to be a "cool guy" (I do appreciate the concern there, though.)

Anything worth doing is risky, you just have to decide what is worth the risk. Something such as this, in my opinion, will be worth the risk.

So far, I have gotten this:
-I can buy used gear on anything EXCEPT helmet
-Buy a bike going into winter, when people are cleaning out their garage
-Fix up said bike, get gear over winter
-Take MSF/Permit test come spring
-Be driving it by mid-spring


What are the major things to look at when buying a used bike?
*I am looking exclusively at Ninja 250s*

I wouldn't say you absolutely can't buy a used helmet. I've bought a few in the past with no issues.

I've currently got one I'm looking to unload for cheap that has literally only been worn for 3 weekends (2 trackdays and 1 race weekend). The only reason I'm selling it is that it is past the 'expiration' date for the club I race it, but it is in perfect condition. (I bought it new.)

Welcome to the Ninjette family.

[Flying]

Find the closest Harbor Freight store in your area.

adouglas has some seriously solid advice:

Originally Posted by adouglas

Since you say you're not good mechanically, it'll be hard for you to know what's good and what isn't. Do you have a friend who is mechanically inclined?

In general, trust your gut. If it feels like the seller isn't being honest, chances are he's not.

Here are some giveaways to tell if a bike has been abused/crashed:

- Almost nobody paints fairings to make the bike look good. They usually do it because it's been crashed.
- Check the bar ends, balls on the ends of the brake levers, turn signals, exhaust and foot pegs for scratches. Tip-overs leave tiny scratches. Crashes on the street leave long scratches. So if the guy tells you "oh, I just dropped it in the driveway" and you see an 8-inch-long abrasion on one side, you know he's lying.
- Brand-new levers often mean the old ones were damaged in a crash.
- Beware of half-baked mods. Some people would rather install HID headlights and LED kits than keep the bike in good shape.
- Likewise, look for half-baked redneck repairs. If a bolt falls out, it should be replaced with a proper bolt, not a zip tie or something from the hardware store. Someone who cares for their bike does it right.
- The chain should have NO rust. It should also not be massively caked with crud.
- Stick your finger in the tailpipe with the bike off. Finding soot is okay. Finding oil is bad.
- Start it and run it. Does it smell funny?
- Look in the oil sight glass. Honey colored and clear means the oil just got changed. Black is okay. Milky is bad.

In general, within obvious limits you can tell if a bike's been well taken care of just by looking closely at it. People who neglect maintenance also neglect cleanliness. A bike that's really ratty on the outside probably hasn't been maintained.

Walk away from flaky "stories" about the bike's history. There are many bikes out there... be patient and pick a good one. Spend a little more for the better bike. Don't nickel and dime yourself.

The best bikes are bone-stock, owned by adults (of either gender), clean, and undamaged.

A guy good with cars is better than nothing, a guy who knows bikes is even better. 250s and many other motorcycles have a few nuances (valve and cam chain noise and clunky transmission are normal, carburetion) that you and your partner need to be aware of. Don't immediately dismiss the bike if you get a good price, any "modifications" are easy enough to fix.
My bike came with those fake carbon fiber, ugly, shoddy "flushmount" turn signals screwed onto the tail accompanied by a really crappy wiring job. I spent $50 on tools and stock parts and came out ahead knowing a lot more about the bike's electrical wiring and turn signal circuit.

[Rangingbata]

What exactly should I look for from Harbor Freight? Growing up without a father has left me pretty near incompetent when it comes to tools...

[Flying]

Get a metric wrench set and a drain pan for an oil change first. Buy the rest as you need them.

[NevadaWolf]

My recent Harbor Frieght purchase was the three click type torque wrenches. Sure they are cheap (wait for them to go on sale, $10 vs $20+) but they get the job done.

I was going to write up a list, but @Flying has a nice one here https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=854594 that will give you a shopping list to build on. A basic good quality metric set of wrenches and sockets will get you through the easier maintenance items. Buy as you need more when you branch into the tougher stuff.

Don't cheap out on the tools, check out Sears for Craftsmen. With Christmas not too far off, some sales should start cropping up on basic sets.

[spacemonkey]

Be careful about tools at harbor freight. They seem like a good deal because they are so cheap and when you're just starting out that's really enticing. I went down that road years ago and I bought, broke and replaced almost everything Harbor freight sells several times over.

If you have to have something immediately it might do as a first set of tools but be warned they might not last. If you have the money to invest in something like craftsman with a lifetime warranty it's worth it. Like was mentioned above they have good starter sets that go on sale fairly cheap right around the holidays.

I have a lot of craftsman stuff and do a lot of modification work on Jeeps and muscle cars. I have had good luck but in the few cases I have broken something I walked into the local sears told them it broke and walked back out with a brand new shinny one in my hand. And to be fair in most instances when I broke a craftsman tool it was my fault because I had a stuck bolt and used a really long cheater bar to force issues.

Be especially cautious of power tools at harbor freight. They might get you through a project or two but I had a portable compressor to air up my Jeep tires that ran off the Jeep battery and it caught fire while attached to the Jeep. The battery clamps were so hot I burnt myself trying to unhook them to get the compressor away from the jeep. Sure I saved $100 bucks on the compressor but almost lost my $40,000 Jeep in a fire.

Keep an eye out on after Christmas sales and you can probably pickup some good deals on tools.

[fry1024]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^^^ this

Do the MSF first and If you feel that riding is for you, then you're on your way.

Welcome too!

+more
It will answer more questions than you'll think to ask.

[M42]

Use this guide to help you with buying a used bike. It the most indispensable, exhaustive buying guide I've ever seen. Do you have any friends that are into bikes? If so, take them along, they're worth their weight in gold - or ask a forum member from your area to help you out. I would if I was nearby. I think I overpaid a little for my ninja because I didn't know a god damn thing and was on my own. They can also test ride it for you. AND ride it home, which will be a problem for you, if you're buying the bike before your msf - personally I recommend doing the msf before anything at all, so you can figure out if you actually like riding in the first place.

I barely even knew how an engine worked before I got the bike. The wiki is extremely, extremely helpful for people that have never touched a ratchet. I can do most things on my own now, except stuff that requires large tools like wheel balancers (and in that case, I beg them off friends :P). I also live in an apartment and do all my work in the parking lot. If I can do it, so can you.

I would recommend craftsman tools, because they have a lifetime warranty and if one breaks, you can just get it replaced for free at any hardware store that carries them. Don't get 12 point wrenches, 6 is much better at not stripping bolts. This is the first tool set I ever bought, it has everything for you to pull most of the bolts off the bike. Get some box+open ended metric wrenches (17mm to 8mm will be enough), a torque wrench that goes to 80ft/lb off craigslist, and a japanese industrial standard screwdriver (this will be a lifesaver for not stripping every god damn philips screw on the bike). Later, you can get some smaller ratchet drives, a couple of socket extenders, some other odds and ends that will cover you for pretty much everything. The wiki tells you what tools/parts/fluids you need for specific jobs, too, so you're golden as long as you read it.

[Snake]

Hello and welcome.

[Roark]

About the tools.. It doesn't take a dad to teach you how to turn a wrench. DON'T skimp on tools. Buy some Craftsman or Kobalt at least. Good quality, and they won't break 5 minutes before finishing a valve job the way Harbor Freight tools will. Some of their stuff is okay, but mostly junky.

A good, comprehensive Craftsman set should be sub $300 at most and will likely contain every tool you'll need to do most things to a bike.. or any vehicle, for that matter. A $300 Craftsman set has taken apart and put together my Toyota pickup and friend's Jeep numerous times, with MANY tools I haven't even touched yet! Invest in quality and they will pay for themselves.

As for your riding, definitely take the MSF course. Indispensable knowledge that also pays for itself.

Good luck! And welcome aboard!