Need help with rear blinkers

[kennetht]

Hey guys,

I am completely new to this whole wiring thing, so please forgive me if I am asking a bit of noob questions here. Mechanically I am pretty good with the bike, but when it comes to electronics, wiring, and such, I am not quite as good.

So when I purchased my bike it had no blinkers installed. The stock front and rear blinkers were removed because the previous owner dropped the bike and broke them, so he just removed them entirely.

I recently have purchased rear blinkers for my bike.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111191696326...T0%26ga4m%3DT3

My question is, where is the hookup for the rear blinkers?

I took a look at the bike this past weekend while doing some schedule maintenance and took notice of the wiring under the passenger seat leading to the brake light. I noticed that coming off of that wire that leads to the brake light is another wire that has a plastic hookup connection that looks the same as the hookup that the brake light connects to. I was wondering what that additional hookup is for. Is that the hookup for the rear blinkers?

I installed my license plate this past weekend as well, and to do so I had to remove some nuts and bolts to remove the fixture that holds the license plate in order to bolt the plate onto the bike. On my bike, I noticed a little LED light above the license plate. The wires leading from that led are not connected to anything. They are just free wires with no connection at either end. Possibly that is what the extra connection coming off of the brake light wire is intended for? If so, where is the connection for the brake lights?

Your help is greatly appreciated. If there is a previous threat that covers this, please link me up with that threat, as I could not find it. I apologize again if I am asking noob questions.

[Insan3guy]

I'd suggest getting a wiring diagram somehow. It'll show you what goes where and powers which thing.
If that's not an option, you could always start poking around with a multimeter.

(yeah... I'm not a great help. Only ninjette I owned was a pregen :/ )

Here's the best I could do on short notice: 2008 ex250j wiring diagram

[rojoracing53]

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by kennetht

.......I apologize again if I am asking noob questions.

No need for apologies: noob questions is what keeps old members of the site awake.

These may help:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26436

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76116

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87868

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by Insan3guy

I'd suggest getting a wiring diagram somehow. It'll show you what goes where and powers which thing.
If that's not an option, you could always start poking around with a multimeter.

(yeah... I'm not a great help. Only ninjette I owned was a pregen :/ )

Here's the best I could do on short notice: 2008 ex250j wiring diagram

Holy sheetttt. I look at that and have no clue what I'm looking at. I did take physics in college and now a few things about resistors and fuses, etc. But that diagram just confuses the hell out of me hahaha

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I'll take some pics today and upload them

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by Motofool

No need for apologies: noob questions is what keeps old members of the site awake.

These may help:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26436

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76116

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87868

That attached thumbnail looks like it could possibly help me out. Thanks. Gonna take a look after work tonight and make some sense of it.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by Motofool

No need for apologies: noob questions is what keeps old members of the site awake.

Well, that diagram definitely answered one of my questions. Number 4 on the cable, wire, and hose routing diagram was indeed what i figured, the license plate light connector. So that answered one of my questions. I now need to get the snap clamp attachment and set that up.

[kennetht]

where can i purchase these white wiring brackets? is that even the correct term for them?

[kennetht]

Nevermind, I found a site from a previous thread.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/El...onnectors.html

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by kennetht

That attached thumbnail looks like it could possibly help me out. Thanks...........

You are welcome

Sorry I cannot help you better, my bike is an older model and the circuit is not similar to yours.

[kennetht]

So I've been doing a lot of reading around the forums and think I have a little better understanding of the wiring for blinkers for the bike, but I still feel a bit lost in the subject. There is just so much information. I've read a lot about LED blinkers and the problems that occur when having LEDs vs stock in the front and back blinkers.

So I am wondering if someone can explain how things work for me. As of now, I plan on just installing LED rear blinkers, with no front blinkers. (when I purchased my bike, there were no blinkers whatsoever installed on the bike)

So I read a bit, and think I will need it, but I am still confused about what a flasher relay does, as well as what a diode kit is needed for. Will I need either of these when I install my rear LED blinkers? Also, eventually I plan to install flush mount led front blinkers. What will I have to do about that? Thanks for your help.

I really need a blinker for dummies book to learn this stuff, it has proven to be a bit harder than I expected...

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by kennetht

So I've been doing a lot of reading around the forums and think I have a little better understanding of the wiring for blinkers for the bike, but I still feel a bit lost in the subject. There is just so much information. I've read a lot about LED blinkers and the problems that occur when having LEDs vs stock in the front and back blinkers.

So I am wondering if someone can explain how things work for me. As of now, I plan on just installing LED rear blinkers, with no front blinkers. (when I purchased my bike, there were no blinkers whatsoever installed on the bike)

So I read a bit, and think I will need it, but I am still confused about what a flasher relay does, as well as what a diode kit is needed for. Will I need either of these when I install my rear LED blinkers? Also, eventually I plan to install flush mount led front blinkers. What will I have to do about that? Thanks for your help.

I really need a blinker for dummies book to learn this stuff, it has proven to be a bit harder than I expected...

I don't have time right now to find the exact thread or part number but if you PM me tomorrow evening I'll see about finding it for you. But I'll save you some hassle and tell you if you get the right digital relay it will be totally plug and play and you won't need any diodes of any kind period, and it's only like $12.

[Insan3guy]

Originally Posted by kennetht

So I've been doing a lot of reading around the forums and think I have a little better understanding of the wiring for blinkers for the bike, but I still feel a bit lost in the subject. There is just so much information. I've read a lot about LED blinkers and the problems that occur when having LEDs vs stock in the front and back blinkers.

So I am wondering if someone can explain how things work for me. As of now, I plan on just installing LED rear blinkers, with no front blinkers. (when I purchased my bike, there were no blinkers whatsoever installed on the bike)

So I read a bit, and think I will need it, but I am still confused about what a flasher relay does, as well as what a diode kit is needed for. Will I need either of these when I install my rear LED blinkers? Also, eventually I plan to install flush mount led front blinkers. What will I have to do about that? Thanks for your help.

I really need a blinker for dummies book to learn this stuff, it has proven to be a bit harder than I expected...

a flasher relay takes power from the system and turns it into the blinking part that powers the turn signals.
regular bulbs draw more power than led's, and most flasher relays blink faster when the draw (how much electricity is being pulled by whatever's blinking) becomes low, such as when a bulb goes out. But since led's ALREADY draw a low amount of power, the flasher thinks there's a bulb out somewhere and blinks fast.

flush mounts vs regular blinkers: same wires, different shape.

also, on the subject of wiring diagrams: they only look difficult. download one for a random bike and just kind of see what goes where. For instance, my bike has a red wire that is hot when the key is turned, but off when the key is out. by consulting my diagram, I see that that wire goes to the license plate light and taillight.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I don't have time right now to find the exact thread or part number but if you PM me tomorrow evening I'll see about finding it for you. But I'll save you some hassle and tell you if you get the right digital relay it will be totally plug and play and you won't need any diodes of any kind period, and it's only like $12.

Ok thanks, I will PM you this evening. As for the digital relay, I believe I found one. Based off all the threads and research Ive done, I concluded that this is the most popular one.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...asher/781/835/

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by Insan3guy

a flasher relay takes power from the system and turns it into the blinking part that powers the turn signals.
regular bulbs draw more power than led's, and most flasher relays blink faster when the draw (how much electricity is being pulled by whatever's blinking) becomes low, such as when a bulb goes out. But since led's ALREADY draw a low amount of power, the flasher thinks there's a bulb out somewhere and blinks fast.

flush mounts vs regular blinkers: same wires, different shape.

also, on the subject of wiring diagrams: they only look difficult. download one for a random bike and just kind of see what goes where. For instance, my bike has a red wire that is hot when the key is turned, but off when the key is out. by consulting my diagram, I see that that wire goes to the license plate light and taillight.

ah that makes perfect sense. so the flasher relay controls the draw better compared to the stock flasher relay. supposedly the stock flasher relay is not an electronic relay i read somewhere, which is why the led blinkers go crazy

[Insan3guy]

Originally Posted by kennetht

ah that makes perfect sense. so the flasher relay controls the draw better compared to the stock flasher relay. supposedly the stock flasher relay is not an electronic relay i read somewhere, which is why the led blinkers go crazy

I'm partially convinced it's voodoo magic, but people tell me it's some sort of crazy combination of resistors and heat sensing... stuff.

[kennetht]

So my rear led brake lights came today. However I do not have a digital relay yet, as well as the proper connections, so I was unable to install. Before install though, I took some pictures to make sure that I have the correct connections identified. I took off both my seats to try to identify which connections go to what. So I took some pictures to help all of you who are helping me out. Which again, I thank you for.

First is this image:
http://imageshack.com/a/img89/186/ai7y.jpg
This connection is on the same strand of wires that comes directly from my rear brake light. Based off of some wiring guides, I have concluded that this is the license plate light connector. Am I correct? Next I will need the proper connector for the wires coming from the license plate light, which I believe is the 2 position .110 connector:


Now that I am all set with my license plate light, lets now focus on the rear turn signals.

So looking at all the wiring under my seats, I found only two connections that are freely unattached to anything. They are:
http://imageshack.com/a/img31/5365/or1x.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img29/1438/pey1.jpg

Also based off of some wiring guides, I have concluded that these are the lead wires that would supply the lead to the left and right turn signals? First off, am I correct? Second, how do I know which color, gray, or black goes to which turn signal? Is gray the left side or right side? Is black the left side or right side?

And if those are in fact the lead wires to the turn signals, these are the correct connectors right?


My turn signals have ends like this, which I am pretty sure mount into the plastic connectors:
http://imageshack.com/a/img30/3928/dbwi.jpg

[Christofini]

Pretty sure the longer of the two wires goes to the rear right indicator. I just installed LED tonight...it's easy enough to swap them around if you get it wrong

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by kennetht

So my rear led brake lights came today. However I do not have a digital relay yet, as well as the proper connections, so I was unable to install. Before install though, I took some pictures to make sure that I have the correct connections identified. I took off both my seats to try to identify which connections go to what. So I took some pictures to help all of you who are helping me out. Which again, I thank you for.

First is this image:
http://imageshack.com/a/img89/186/ai7y.jpg
This connection is on the same strand of wires that comes directly from my rear brake light. Based off of some wiring guides, I have concluded that this is the license plate light connector. Am I correct? Next I will need the proper connector for the wires coming from the license plate light, which I believe is the 2 position .110 connector:


Now that I am all set with my license plate light, lets now focus on the rear turn signals.

So looking at all the wiring under my seats, I found only two connections that are freely unattached to anything. They are:
http://imageshack.com/a/img31/5365/or1x.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img29/1438/pey1.jpg

Also based off of some wiring guides, I have concluded that these are the lead wires that would supply the lead to the left and right turn signals? First off, am I correct? Second, how do I know which color, gray, or black goes to which turn signal? Is gray the left side or right side? Is black the left side or right side?

And if those are in fact the lead wires to the turn signals, these are the correct connectors right?


My turn signals have ends like this, which I am pretty sure mount into the plastic connectors:
http://imageshack.com/a/img30/3928/dbwi.jpg

Yes, that's the correct connector for the license plate. For the rear signals, the black wire is ground. There should be two black wires, one for each side. Then, there is a green and gray wire, one +12v for each side. Just to be clear, the pairs for each signal are, [gray and black] & [green and black]. I forget which is which, but once you wire it up and activate the signal, you'll see right away.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Yes, that's the correct connector for the license plate. For the rear signals, the black wire is ground. There should be two black wires, one for each side. Then, there is a green and gray wire, one +12v for each side. Just to be clear, the pairs for each signal are, [gray and black] & [green and black]. I forget which is which, but once you wire it up and activate the signal, you'll see right away.

Awesome. Thanks a bunch. I think I'm all set to go. Just need my relay to get delivered and then I'm set.

One last question. Since I do not currently have any blinkers installed, my blinker light on the dash should not go on when I signal left or right correct? The dash blinker light will only go on once I install the blinkers?

[CThunder-blue]

I don't think it should come on unless the blinkers are there.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I don't think it should come on unless the blinkers are there.

That's what I figured. I'm just hoping that once I connect everything and go to check the signals, I hope they turn on. Cause if not that will mean I have a wiring problem somewhere down the line... If that's the case I wouldn't know what to do.

[kennetht]

Does anyone know another site or place that sells the connectors for the blinkers besides http://www.easternbeaver.com/?

Eastern beaver requires a minimum order of $20. I only need like $5 worth of connectors...

Would radio shack, pepboys, or any other auto parts store carry these connectors?

[CThunder-blue]

for the license plate connector: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Way-2-8mm-...item2a265976a0

for the signal harness: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-OEM...adca9b&vxp=mtr

And no, the local auto parts stores will not have these.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

for the license plate connector: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Way-2-8mm-...item2a265976a0

for the signal harness: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-OEM...adca9b&vxp=mtr

And no, the local auto parts stores will not have these.

You are the man! Thanks so much. I appreciate all the help.

[kennetht]

So I installed my blinkers last night. Wanted to share with you guys how it turned out. Came out pretty well in my opinion. I have not received the connectors yet, so I was unable to connect everything and test the blinkers in action. Connectors should come sometime this week.

Also I got the license plate LED light connected and it works perfectly!

[kennetht]

Need help one last time!

I received all the connectors for all the wiring yesterday, so I just hooked up all the wiring now and connected everything. I changed out the stock flasher relay to this new one:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...asher/781/835/

So moment of truth, I turned on the bike, and went to signal left and right (take note that I only have rear blinkers installed. I do not have any front blinkers installed at this time), and low and behold, the blinkers started flashing. But, notice I said blinkers. lol. Both blinkers started flashing like emergency flashers. No matter which signal I tried to activate, left or right, both signals will now blink together.

So for the hell of it, I took out the new flasher relay, and put the stock one back on. This time though, when signaling left or right, the blinkers both stayed lit, and did not flash at all. (which is what I expected to happen, since the stock relay is not an electronic relay)

So my question to you guys is, what do I do now? Why would both signals flash at the same time?

Also, not sure if this matters, but just wanted to bring to your attention, but the blinker indicator on the dash did not light up to tell me the blinkers were on either. Perhaps that bulb is burnt out, but maybe not? I dont know...

[kennetht]

Ok, so I just read the wiki:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_LED_turn_signals_don't_work_right

In the Fixing "all signals flashing at the same time" section based off of the wiki, it looks like I now need a diode kit...

I thought by purchasing the flasher relay that I did
(http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...asher/781/835/), that I would not need to install a diode kit in order for my led blinkers to work correctly...

Perhaps I am mistaken, but that is what I was lead to believe based off a previous post earlier in this thread:
"I don't have time right now to find the exact thread or part number but if you PM me tomorrow evening I'll see about finding it for you. But I'll save you some hassle and tell you if you get the right digital relay it will be totally plug and play and you won't need any diodes of any kind period, and it's only like $12."

[CThunder-blue]

If you have the oem front signals, you shouldn't need the diode kit. The LED's don't draw enough power. Plug in your front OEM signals and it should work as normal. If you are getting front LED signals, then you'll need a diode kit, which I keep in stock.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

If you have the oem front signals, you shouldn't need the diode kit. The LED's don't draw enough power. Plug in your front OEM signals and it should work as normal. If you are getting front LED signals, then you'll need a diode kit, which I keep in stock.

Unfortunately I do not have the oem front signals. When I purchased the bike it came with no turn signals at all.

So with that being said, with just my rear led blinkers installed, I need to get a diode kit then now correct?

[InvisiBill]

The turn signal indicator light is actually wired to the + of both front turn signals, based on the wiring diagram linked above. Voltage is based on the differential between the two wires, so this works since there's voltage on the blinker that's on, but not on the other one. When your right blinker is on, the gray wire of the dash bulb is + and the green wire is -. When the left blinker is on, the green wire is + and the gray wire is -. This also means that switching the dash bulb to an LED wouldn't work, since LEDs are polarized and will only work with the power flowing one way through them.

When you switch to LEDs which need much less power to light up, the little bit of juice going through the dash light to the other side's blinker is enough to also light up the other side. The only reason it doesn't happen with the stock blinkers is that the bulbs are so inefficient, the little bit of power coming to them isn't enough to make them light up. Personally, I think diodes should be added, even with stock blinkers, for a "proper" circuit.

You could also replace the dash bulb with two LEDs and a separate shared ground wire to give you and indicator for each side and inherently stop the bleedover between the two sides. Just run the existing bulb's green wire to the positive side of one LED and the gray wire to the positive side of another LED, and hook the LEDs' negative sides to a ground wire. The blinker will feed power to the LED on its side (left through green and right through gray) and through to ground, but power won't flow through the second LED (and therefore the blinker on that side) due to its polarity.

[kennetht]

Thanks for that detailed answer. I understand much better now. Once I get my blinkers working correctly and eventually install front blinkers, I will see how everything works out.

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

The turn signal indicator light is actually wired to the + of both front turn signals, based on the wiring diagram linked above. Voltage is based on the differential between the two wires, so this works since there's voltage on the blinker that's on, but not on the other one. When your right blinker is on, the gray wire of the dash bulb is + and the green wire is -. When the left blinker is on, the green wire is + and the gray wire is -. This also means that switching the dash bulb to an LED wouldn't work, since LEDs are polarized and will only work with the power flowing one way through them.

When you switch to LEDs which need much less power to light up, the little bit of juice going through the dash light to the other side's blinker is enough to also light up the other side. The only reason it doesn't happen with the stock blinkers is that the bulbs are so inefficient, the little bit of power coming to them isn't enough to make them light up. Personally, I think diodes should be added, even with stock blinkers, for a "proper" circuit.

You could also replace the dash bulb with two LEDs and a separate shared ground wire to give you and indicator for each side and inherently stop the bleedover between the two sides. Just run the existing bulb's green wire to the positive side of one LED and the gray wire to the positive side of another LED, and hook the LEDs' negative sides to a ground wire. The blinker will feed power to the LED on its side (left through green and right through gray) and through to ground, but power won't flow through the second LED (and therefore the blinker on that side) due to its polarity.

[kennetht]

Just wanted to update everyone who helped me out on this.

I installed the diode kit this past weekend, and everything now works as intended. The rear blinkers look great!

Now I plan to install front blinkers and then I am all set. All the connections are all there, so I know exactly what to do now.

Thank you to everyone who helped me out! I greatly appreciate it. Without you guys I would be lost. Thanks again!

And Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[Motofool]

[rojoracing53]

Are you sure it was the diode kit that fixed your problem and not possibly you correcting a bad connection in the process by chance? I ask because I'm running led front and rear with no diodes and with the relay your using with no issues

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Are you sure it was the diode kit that fixed your problem and not possibly you correcting a bad connection in the process by chance? I ask because I'm running led front and rear with no diodes and with the relay your using with no issues

He has no front blinkers. Not enough current draw to make them blink normally.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

He has no front blinkers. Not enough current draw to make them blink normally.

I'll try unplugging everything but the rears and see if I get the same result. Maybe those ZX-10R mirrors I have with LEDs have diodes built into them.

[kennetht]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Are you sure it was the diode kit that fixed your problem and not possibly you correcting a bad connection in the process by chance? I ask because I'm running led front and rear with no diodes and with the relay your using with no issues

Yeah I'm positive. I left everything as is before connecting the diode kit, and once I connected the diode kit the blinkers blinked correctly.

CThunder-blue is correct, I do not currently have any front blinkers. I only have rear blinkers at the moment. I plan on installing front led blinkers in the next week or so. It was with my understanding that even with front and rear led blinkers, I would still have needed the diode kit. Thats weird that you have leds in front and black with no diode and your blinkers are still working correctly...

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I'll try unplugging everything but the rears and see if I get the same result. Maybe those ZX-10R mirrors I have with LEDs have diodes built into them.

If they're OEM, I'm betting they're setup with resistors inline to deal with the current. That's the other method to get the blinkers working, but can be a hassle to install in aftermarket lights.