Ride apart article, why you don't need a liter bike

[subxero]

This will be sure to get some squid panties in a bunch

http://rideapart.com/articles/11-rea...zergnet_344974

[Ghostt]

Truth hurts LOL, having had big, medium, and small bore bikes, I agree with article.

[dcj13]

Good article! Some of the links within the web page are interesting, too.

[CC Cowboy]

I can honestly say, I agree (with one of the statements). They do make you lazy. Other than that I think the writer is a bit off on the rest of his thoughts.

[crazymadbastard]

hey if 20 hp is so good with our bikes, then 200hp gotta more gooder!

[Sirref]

psh, liter bikes are ridiculous in the straights that's why people get them. Only high level racers "need" them but who buys a sport bike because they need it, there's a certain level of want there

[kdogg2077]

Good article. Too bad if you look at the comments hardly anyone seems to get it...

I think the most telling thing about race bikes is the number you see used with hardly any miles. People buy them because they're cool but once the cool factor wears of a bit they're stuck with a bike totally unsuited to street riding that is also costly to insure and maintain.

I'm holding out for a sportbike in 55-60hp range someday. You can keep those 200hp bikes to yourselves

[ninjunk]

on the other hand, buying lots of literbikes improves the economy of scale and funds racing development, which is pretty cool. plus the idiots that buy them wreck them so parts are plentiful and cheap, which keeps upgrade parts for other bikes cheap, and ensures a constant demand.

i don't want one, but YOU should definitely get one!

[backinthesaddleagain]

I enjoyed riding a 2012 R1 at a track day demo and a KTM RC8R on the street. Less power than many other liter bikes but nice spread of power.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Ha, good read.

[nickjpass]

I'd be lying if I said I don't want to own a liter bike (or at least ride one - might have a opportunity to ride a Ducati soon) . I can definitely see one in my future.

[The Red Scourge]

I enjoyed the read. As a fairly new rider (12,000 mi), I'm glad I have my Ninjette. The more I ride it the more I appreciate and enjoy it's lack of power. If I want to go fast, I have to work for it. I'd buy a 600, but it's hard for me to imagine the real need for one. My favorite thing about the 250 is it's handling anyways.

[subxero]

I've only ever ridden an R1 at a demo ride at a dealership. Obviously it was a very tame ride and didn't get a chance to stretch the legs on the beast but the only thing I could think about half way through the ~45-50mph back road ride on a cool fall Pennsylvania day was "holy **** my feet are getting hot as hell" as the exhaust cooked my feet inside my Sidi boots

I now understand why liter bike squids wear sneakers... or sandles

[burningscooter]

Originally Posted by Sirref

psh, liter bikes are ridiculous in the straights that's why people get them. Only high level racers "need" them but who buys a sport bike because they need it, there's a certain level of want there

Liter bikes are insane on the straight, but if you carry enough cornerspeed into and out of the corner, they shouldnt pull too bad of a gap on you. There have only been two real instances on the track where a liter bike dipset on me and I was like "WHOA!!!". First time was my buds HP4 and second time was a different friends superbike tuned GSXR 1000.

That being said, I feel that this article saying a liter bike makes you a lazy rider is just to get a rise out of people. Liter bike riders work just as hard if not harder to keep that bike tamed.

Maybe I just see the opposite, but eeehh, who really cares what one person on the Internet thinks. LMAO

[Sirref]

I agree it requires more throttle control to keep the bike tamed but not needing to shift offsets that a bit. Realistically it's the same difficulty to ride on the streets but I see a liter bike as being more difficult to ride at pace on a track. Similar to how a 600 is more difficult to ride on track than a 250 (for me at least)

[burningscooter]

The 600 is a completely new bike to you, and your primary bike has been the 250. The ease of riding your gsxr will come as you adjust to the speed differential and the changes you have to make in your riding (read. brake markers, tip-in, corner speed, etc.). Everyone goes through it. You'll be dragging bows in no time.

This calls for a quick story. I remember when I first put the quick throttle kit on my gsxr, I was blowing apexes, corner speed, etc., for like 3 track days. I had to essentially relearn how to ride my bike. Fun stuff though, no scary stories, just disappointment in it taking so long to adjust.

[Sirref]

I see your point since by the end of day 3 at jennings I was almost knee down in the same corners I was dragging on the 250 so I see your point there. My corner entry still needs work on the 600 though, it was way better when I didn't allow myself to use 4th gear in the straights so it's a visual thing for sure.

I still feel as though the bike takes more physical effort to wrestle down though. My right wrist even got sore at points due to how much, unnecessary, force I was putting into the brakes

[KawiKid860]

Why do people care so much about what other people ride?

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Why do people care so much about what other people ride?

They use it as a substitute for actually whipping out dicks and measuring them side by side, since that would generally be frowned upon in public.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

They use it as a substitute for actually whipping out dicks and measuring them side by side, since that would generally be frowned upon in public.

they're also worried they'd lose that contest

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Sirref

they're also worried they'd lose that contest

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Why do people care so much about what other people ride?

We're tribal animals, and are wired to try to avoid unnecessary deaths of other tribe members.

[sparky80]

I took my new to me 250 for a little 15 mile ride today... first real ride on it. At first, I HATED it. It's soooo slow compared to my DD, an '07 FZ1.

Then after I got over the fact that it is slow, I enjoyed how easy it was to maneuver, and it wasn't so bad.

I guess I like being lazy... and prefer 150 hp over 35.... and Yamaha's over kawasaki's

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by sparky80

I guess I like being lazy... and prefer 150 hp over 35.... and Yamaha's over kawasaki's

I feel similarly. My 500 is an absolute hoot to ride, but once I got a 600 I all but quit riding the 500. Same deal with my 900. But it might also have something to do with my having put over 20k miles on the 500, 6k on the 600 and 2.5k on the 900, and the 500 needing a ton of work at the moment lol.

[Ghostt]

If I was going to have a big bore again, it would be one of my dream bikes,

In this order,
BMW K1200S silver or K1300S orange
1987 Honda hurricane 1000 gray
1985 Yamaha FJ1100 (I miss her)

[burningscooter]

@Sirref Your corner entry will come man. It takes time. My corner entry into T1 at Summit Main is all over the place. Every 3 laps or so Ill nail it, otherwise, I dont know what I am doing (I do, scrubbing to much speed). When I was chasing lap times last year at the end of the season, I lost .2-.3 seconds into T1 indicated from my splits. Its infuriating.

Also, with the 600, as you start shifting the bike more and picking up the pace, youll reach the point where your left and right wrists hurt just the same, but you wont quit. lol

[Sirref]

That BMW K1300S orange looks sick, I'd ride that on the streets if I didn't see myself as becoming more of an adv touring rider in terms of street riding down the line

That is infuriating, what got me was knowing that I had better corner entry on the 250 because my mind can process 105mph way better than 130+mph but it'll come in time and I still have so much fun every time I go to the track. Particularly now that I've extended my "trackdays since last crash" count by another 3 days (to 8)

I'll get there someday, likely someday soon since I'm signing up for the CSS level one in may and then going for my race license shortly afterwards with marrc. I improve pretty quickly on my own (or at least I feel like I do because it's consistent improvement) so attending a school should help a lot

[ninjunk]

Its interesting that whenever bike comparisons come up on this forum, someone inevitably cites the ninja's 'superior handling' as a reason why it is better than other bikes.

Granted I haven't pushed one hard on the track, but from street riding I'm just not buying that the ninja has better handling than any comparable superbike or literbike out there, the ergos aren't better and the frame or geometry aren't inherently better. The 300 was called 'the best handling bike i've ever ridden' by a very experienced racer buddy of mine, but that was after he dumped more than he paid into the thing having a suspension pro tune it.


So where am I going with this? It goes back to Code's 10 dollar bill analogy. When you are riding a liter bike or even a superbike you are spending 2-3 dollars of your focus trying to control the throttle and keep from throwing yourself off. I think more than even the conscious effort you're putting in making sure that while you turn and shift position you don't slightly alter the throttle angle, the unconscious stress of the violent acceleration breaks your concentration and takes it away from where you should be focused.

At least, that is my experience riding the 'big boy' motorcycles. Part of the reason I like the SV650's is that they don't have that violent power. I'm sure to an experienced racer you get comfortable with controlling the bike and it is second nature, but for most of us schmucks, it feels like the EX250 'handles' better because it isn't trying to buck you off every time you twitch the throttle.

[Sirref]

It comes from steering feel and an easier adjustment to pace at track

on the street it's all the same if you aren't trying to carve canyons, this I agree with.

The 250/300 maxes out at a slow speed in the straights on the track which gives your mind tons of time to process how you want to attack the next corner. In addition to this the 250 "handles better" because it's comparatively effortless to flick to the ground. In my own experience last weekend I learned to push through my body from my outside foot to my inside hand to wrestle my 600 into a corner while I could get the same result on @csmith12 's 250 with my pinky

it doesn't have much to do with throttle control since that becomes second nature after a little practice of "how much can I get away with here?" and "what line allows me to smoothly roll on the throttle until it's pinned all the way through the corner post apex?"

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

it doesn't have much to do with throttle control

You sure?

Is it easier to turn while on or off the throttle? Remember turns 2 and 12 at Jennings? These are ON the throttle turns. So for those who ride larger CC bikes vs. smaller bikes, which rider works harder?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You sure?

Is it easier to turn while on or off the throttle? Remember turns 2 and 12 at Jennings? These are ON the throttle turns. So for those who ride larger CC bikes vs. smaller bikes, which rider works harder?

On the 600 it is more difficult to turn either way than the 250. That said turns 2 and 12 definitely took way more effort than the braking corners

Physically I'd say the larger cc bike riders work harder at the track from my own experience

[Panda]

Well... you don't need a 250 either....

[Rifleman]

chicks dig the thumpy rumble of my liter bike. (I think)

game


set


match

[NDspd]

I find with my 955cc Triumph Speed Triple that it has boatloads of torque and not much top end. So although I have 125hp my top speed is "only" 156mph, which compared to other 1000cc bikes is rather slow. Off the line though it's mega fast and it cruises like butter.

If I ever have to get another bike I'll probably aim for another 1000cc/800cc triple or an 600cc inline-4. There's just no reason for 200hp for riding on the streets, hell you'll never be able to use that power 99% of the time, so why spend the extra money.

[Hero Danny]

I saw this article a while ago. It's pretty solid. I think it brings up some very valid points.

Although Liter's are very much overkill on the streets. I do respect the fact that some people get them simply because they like them.

I for one am very happy with my 300. I think that is actually more than enough needed for the street, it only really lacks on the highway at speeds up above 85 MPH which you really don't need to be doing.

On the other hand:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[antiant]

You don't need anything in life other than the bare necessities to maintain bodily functions, shelter, etc. (ie: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). People have choices, so they choose to have what they want. Sometimes, people balance "wants versus needs" well and sometimes they don't. People value some things more than others, so it's all subjective. To each their own.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by antiant

You don't need anything in life other than the bare necessities to maintain bodily functions, shelter, etc. (ie: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). People have choices, so they choose to have what they want. Sometimes, people balance "wants versus needs" well and sometimes they don't. People value some things more than others, so it's all subjective. To each their own.

+1 excellent point.

Also I do want to comment on a few of the points in the article.

3. All bikes get stolen, people steal even 250's. Over on the reddit I hear about ton's of people's 600's getting stolen.

6. The police see a sport bike and they don't know the difference at all. I once had a cop pull up next to me and told me to keep it under 100. lol, he was a nice guy, little did he know that my bike topped off shortly after 100.

Those are the only 2 things though, everything else was spot on.

[choneofakind]

I no NEEDZ liter bike?!!

But tunnel vision!

[JohnnyBravo]

Have I said I just wanna Florida mod lately?

[wardie]

My Opinion Only.. I've had everything from a Hayabusa, to a CBR 900RR to a Kawi 500 Ninja to three 250 Ninja's...and here's my thoughts on the article and my take on liter bikes.

The article made some relevant points. Liter bikes are high insurance if you're younger, they do get stolen but so does 600's..sportbikes and Harleys get stolen period.

You better know what you're doing when you get a liter bike a twist of the wrist at the wrong time can be your last time. I think there are two parallels between 250's and liter bikes both at opposite ends though but could yield same results. You must be careful when at highway speed when trying to pass cars on a 250. The reason being your acceleration isn't as great and it takes longer to safely pass. Most often you must set up the pass to ensure clear distance. I've often said riding a 250 Ninja teaches you how to control a bike properly and all things that go with it. Failure to pass cleanly could result in a crash. Now the liter bike is similar in the crash part. A twist of the wrist can warp time and if you're not experienced and ready the results could be fatal.
Because you can warp time your closing rate (approaching objects going slower than you) is what gets more people in trouble than anything else IMO. Only time in the saddle at high speed helps you be able to judge closing rate. So as with the Ninja 250 you could end up in trouble but for different reasons each pertaining to that particular bike.

A 600 is lighter , accelerates just a quicker to warp speed and will do the same amount of damage and is probably 2-3000 less expensive.

IMO neither bike should be sold to any first year rider or returning rider without verifiable ability to pilot the bike reasonably well...we should have licensing like Europe..you gradually work up to a big bike. I've seen way too many makeshift crosses over the past two years where some young guy killed himself because of lack of seat time and/or training. It's a shame and again IMO a crime to let inexperienced people buy 100+ horsepower bikes. I'm 64, a veteran of Road racing, LD Iron Butt stuff and take schools when I can like Cali Superbike etc. I get around a lot of motorcycling , events and general chit chat stuff.

In closing I like liter bikes because I can bend time and distance when I need to. But because of it's ability to do that I have heightened awareness of what things I can control always looking for an "out" if need be. I like the power when I need it. I like being able to ride two up and not worry about not having enough horses.
I have done several trips and like both, but in the end my little Ninja is just fine because I can enjoy the ride a lot more I'm never really on the edge with my 250.

Most owners of liter bikes aren't going out for more than an hour. They're just ergonomically not comfortable.

the 250 or 300 are great all arounders for just about everything you would want to do sanely. Wardie