June 17th, 2014, 11:53 AM | #1 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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Tires changing colors
So today I went out on a fairly aggressive street ride through my favorite 100mi course of windy back roads. The weather was pretty hot which combined with my riding caused my tires (michelin pilot street radials) to heat up more than they have before. I did my usual look over before and after the ride, there was nothing unusual before but after the front tire was brown in the center line and the rear was brown on the sides. Does anyone have any idea why this would be the case? I haven't seen this before.
@csmith12 @Motofool |
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June 17th, 2014, 12:01 PM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
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You got the tires crispy!
Naw... for real. There are oils in the rubber of the tire. Depending on many factors (mainly heat), your tires will change color because the heat brings the oils to the surface of the tire. That oil then mixes with whatever your riding on, dust, dirt, ect.. ect.. They turn blue (clean pavement) most of the time but I have seen other colors, even RED!!!!. And one of the other things about phat man tires (michelin's). They show their wear beautifully, by wear and by color. Color is an indication of a heat cycle. Normally, too many heat cycles is considered a bad thing.
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June 17th, 2014, 12:03 PM | #3 |
Private Joker
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oh ok, so basically I was using the tires at or near their optimal temp then?
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June 17th, 2014, 12:09 PM | #4 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
So you're saying the tires can turn blue whenever you ride em hard on clean pavement? |
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June 17th, 2014, 12:22 PM | #5 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
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Quote:
Riding hard is relative to the rider. Is one's hard riding enough to blue a tire, not always but in my experience, the oils in commonly used tires will make the color blue when reacting to clean pavement and air. Some tires are made with more oils and are more likely to react with a blue hue. There is a simple fix for it though, just take it for a ride at a slower pace and it will turn just as black as it always was.
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June 17th, 2014, 12:36 PM | #6 |
Old and slow
Name: Lohman
Location: Aiken, S.C.
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Yes, it was defo heat.
I would say that the really high performance tires turn blue, or even iridescent purple. so you got the tires up to or just over their normal operating temps... Street tires are different then track tires in how fast they can shed heat. track tires are thin and dump heat fast because they are constantly being pushed and getting hot... street tires are thicker and will hold a bit more heat because some times we are sitting at a light or what have you and the tire shouldn't cool all the way down. if you keep pushing them, the tire will feel "greasy", sharp inputs start to get mushy or soft. Going knee down left to knee down right won't feel as firm and sharp... that's the time to back down a bit, that's the first warning you will get. frequently the only warning you will get. |
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June 17th, 2014, 12:42 PM | #7 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Inderveer
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Well, I understand that it would go back to black, but it was just the colors corresponding to different things that boggled my mind. |
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June 17th, 2014, 12:47 PM | #8 |
wat
Name: wat
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my tires turn blue all the time. never had em turn brown. maybe you ran over some ****
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June 17th, 2014, 12:48 PM | #9 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
Did you ride them at "optimal" temps? No, imho they overheated. This could be for multiple reasons but the most common is underinflation. I will ride a tire that has blued a few times without much worry, but after a few more times... the tires start to feel different to me. Null and dry if you will and more likely to give me negative feedback (chatter). YMMV ijs...
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June 17th, 2014, 01:01 PM | #10 |
Private Joker
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Ok, I'll double check the psi tomorrow morning when I head to work. I've been running 30f/32r as my standard temps and have been double checking them about once or twice a month.
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June 17th, 2014, 01:54 PM | #11 | ||
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Quote:
What cssmith says about the natural oil in the rubber is true. Tires do tend to turn brown. It's called browning or "blooming". There's a chemical tire manufactures use called Antiozonant. It helps prevent rubber degradation (cracking, splitting, oxidizing, and overall deterioration) due to the rubber’s interaction with ozone. The tire rubber is designed to constantly work the antiozonant to the outside of the tire as it rolls – in this way, the outside surface of the tire is continually replenished with fresh antiozonant. It's not necessarily heat. Tires will brown in cold weather too. The negative result of having antioznants on the tire is tire browning – once the antiozonant gets exposed to the ozone in the air, it turns brown due to oxidation. Combine that with brake dust, road grime and dirt, you get a brown tire. Want to age a tire prematurely, have it with cracked sidewalls? Leave it dirty and coated with metal flakes so that the rubber can't "breathe" and dry out. Did you really get your tire that hot to turn your tire brown with a little aggressive street riding in low 90 degree weather? Probably not. Do you clean your tires regularly? Just simply cleaning the tire and buffing it with a clean rag can bring the natural black luster back to the tire. Will all the brown come off? Maybe, maybe not. It will depend on the tire. Last futzed with by DaBlue1; June 18th, 2014 at 07:38 AM. |
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June 17th, 2014, 01:59 PM | #12 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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I clean my tires when I spray down my bike which is once every other week or so. I just do a quick spray w/a hose and wipe the bike down to dry it off then clean & lube the chain (I do that once per week on average)
I did ride through a few rainstorms since I've cleaned the bike though if that makes a difference. The tires were pretty damned hot though, we're talking can barely touch it with a bare hand hot. It's also gone back to normal already. |
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June 17th, 2014, 02:26 PM | #13 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
Water alone will not remove baked on dirt. It's kind of like patting your ass dry after a good dump. Over time sh** gets caked up and needs a good wipe. Tires get hot and they cool down quickly, but trust me, you were in no danger of shredding a tire due to heat related stresses. Your tire is designed for 130 mph. I think at that point you'd want to start worrying about heat. |
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June 17th, 2014, 02:29 PM | #14 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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Alright, so I checked the psi and it was at 30f/32r I upped it to 32f/36r while I was at it since that was the recommended psi in another thread on these tires.
Good to know, so basically in the future wipe the tires down with something like this? |
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June 17th, 2014, 02:41 PM | #15 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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June 17th, 2014, 02:45 PM | #16 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
Q2's, speed rating of W - (168mph) My r6 will not go that fast, yet still turned blue. Rosso 2 rear, H rated - (130mph) My 250 will not go that fast, yet still turned blue.
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June 17th, 2014, 02:46 PM | #17 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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I'd wager that acceleration is more of a factor than raw speed on the rear and braking is more of a factor on the front since only the center of the front and the sides of the rear changed and those were the points where I was hardest on the brakes/throttle respectively
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June 17th, 2014, 03:37 PM | #18 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Tires changing colors?
In my day, that was due to this stuff called "acid." They were just as likely to turn paisley.
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June 17th, 2014, 04:05 PM | #19 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Of course there is. Different tire compounds will react differently due to heat. They make tires that produce different color smoke during a burn out.
However I think you may have missed my point..... |
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June 17th, 2014, 04:22 PM | #20 | ||
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
I didn't miss the point though, I am just worried about the impression your comment gives to those who know no better. In the end, if your tires are turning colors, that's is a clue. For better or worse... it's a message the bike is telling you. Quote:
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June 17th, 2014, 05:08 PM | #21 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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There are more than a few threads on here about tires and suspensions that can keep anyone looking for info busy for a while.
One in particular- https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...oss#post682629 The Race Track Tyre Wear Guide |
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June 17th, 2014, 05:35 PM | #22 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
IMHO, it is all about keeping the proper pressure for the conditions. Why is pressure such a key factor? Because pressure determines how much the carcase bends and gets deformed under the weight and the dynamic forces. That excessive surface temperature comes from the extra energy that the engine wasted just to be stored in the rubber. Internal friction of the carcase generated more heat than what could be transferred to the air; hence, the temperature increased until a new heat transfer balance was reached. Regardless the changes in color, that waste of energy is not good for your pocket or for the health of your tires. The designer of any tire determines by experimentation, what is the best balance among footprint of the contact patch, the spring effect, traction and temperature. For any specific compound and carcase structure, pressure is all he changes in those experiments. A pressure that covers the most different conditions is recommended in the manual (just as a starting point). Adjust your cold pressures to the task: pump it up some for heavy load, high speeds and/or hot weather. Make a habit of touching the side of your tires with your bare hands each time that you dismount after some good miles. Too cold is telling you that your cold pressure is higher than ideal and that you are sacrificing suspension effect and traction for saving fuel. Too hot is telling you that your cold pressure is lower than ideal and that you are sacrificing fuel saving and tire life for practically no reason (extra suspension effect and traction due to initial low pressure soon disappears due to excessive hot pressure ............ or so I believe). Yes, all that extra flexing and heating of rubber is like pumping more air into the tire, as hot gas = high P = high volume = high air viscosity. You could also use the 10/20% rule: http://www.mad-ducati.com/Articles/TirePressure.html
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 17th, 2014, 05:38 PM | #23 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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I'll do that test next time I go on an aggressive ride with the bike, I bumped the psi up by 4 in the rear and 2 in the front to 32f/36r so that should make a bit of a difference
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June 17th, 2014, 06:00 PM | #24 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
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colors are not a problem and I really doubt your overheating the tires while riding on the street no matter how fast you ride. I've blued rosso II's on the street and at the track and I know the tires are way hotter while on the track by at least 50 degs.
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June 17th, 2014, 06:02 PM | #25 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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I don't feel that I have heated the tires beyond their operational temp. I just found it the color change odd and thought maybe the heat had something to do with it, since they were hotter than I have ever gotten a tire to before, which seems to be the case.
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June 17th, 2014, 06:15 PM | #26 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
For example: Rough pavement at noon time increases the tire's temperature some more. 2/30 = 6% 4/32 = 12% When you ride fast, more times per second any same area of the tire is bent (if tires were rigid, like a train's steel wheel, they would stay cool). Yes, it is exposed to a faster cooling airstream, but it seems that heating over-rules cooling. When you corner fast, the lateral deformation of the carcase is more pronounced while it supports a bike that becomes up to 40% "heavier" (combined centripetal force + weight) than when rolling straight. Copied from: http://sportbike.natkd.com/tires.htm "Tires and Heat All tires have an optimum operating temperature. When they reach it the rubber compound is at its stickiest, and the carcass at it's most flexible. Below that temperature, grip is reduced and the tire may have a tendency to slide. If the tire exceeds its optimum operating temperature things go wrong quickly. Excess heat causes the tire tread to degrade. As the adhesives used to bind the tread compound to percolate to the surface, the tire become very slippery. In severe cases the tire will actually shed chunks of tread. To reduce heat buildup generated by flex modern tires are built of thin strong plies. Since the carcass runs cooler a softer compound can be used. ...... It should be a habit to look at your tires as you approach your motorcycle. Observe the tires for any indication of low air pressure and the condition of the tread surface. A cheap tire pressure gauge is better than none. Check your tire's air pressure often, if you ride once a-week, do it before you start out. Always check the tire pressure while the tires are cool and follow the tire manufacturer specifications. Try not to add air to an already hot tire. The air in the tire expands as the tire heats up. Adding air to an already hot tire will over-inflate it. And cause excessive wear in the center of the tire. Tires low on air will run at higher temperatures which can deteriorate the tire's compounds and reduce the tires life; besides degrading your motorcycle's handling. Running tires low on air will cause the outside edges to wear. Tires are not cheap, keeping them properly inflated will make them work better, handle safely and last their intended life. "
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 17th, 2014, 06:57 PM | #27 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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Wrong, drove too fast and scared the tires, they shat themselves.
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June 17th, 2014, 11:50 PM | #28 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
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Also if you're going to be going HAM in the streets look up the track tire pressures for your Pirellis. I believe it's 28 in the front and 32 in the rear. Don't quote me on that. You drop the pressure because the tire psi will jump up quite a bit with hard braking and acceleration. The tires for the little bikes have different construction making them not quite as rigid. So they will heat up quickly like a big bike will. The track psi setting for my duc on supercorsa 2s is 28 30. Mind you my bike doesn't spin up the rear but makes 120 rwhp.
So don't go inflating them super high thinking that will help. |
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June 18th, 2014, 02:11 AM | #29 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
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I want some hi-po lime green tires, shame they ain't high performance
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June 18th, 2014, 01:01 PM | #30 |
Not dead yet!
Name: Rob
Location: Marlborough MA
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 315
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Fact: when the tires turn blue, your beer is ice cold.
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June 18th, 2014, 09:02 PM | #31 | |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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Quote:
also very relevant link I'm likely going to be getting this this summer too http://www.tirepenz.com/product_p/refkit-green.htm |
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June 18th, 2014, 09:04 PM | #32 | |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
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Green chainz? I don't clean my chain enough to have a fancy one :/ |
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June 18th, 2014, 09:07 PM | #33 | |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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Quote:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...T.ac=SLIsearch My bike is going to look sick when I repaint the fairings and replace the right side fairing from my lowside. Black/Green will have never looked so good. |
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June 18th, 2014, 09:21 PM | #34 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Looks good in the pic! Hmmmm wonder how much a gold one would help my lack o chain cleaning?
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June 18th, 2014, 09:35 PM | #35 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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June 18th, 2014, 09:42 PM | #36 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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June 18th, 2014, 10:01 PM | #37 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
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My tires are always brown because the roads near my home are dirty, and I have a gravel driveway. I feel like it 'stains' them. Once I go riding, especially on a spirited ride, they clean themselves lol
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June 19th, 2014, 07:33 PM | #38 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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So if you buy Scott's oiler you never have to clean a chain again
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June 19th, 2014, 07:38 PM | #39 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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I've got about 5000 miles or so with my Scott's oiler and yeah my chain never gets anywhere near as dirty as it used to with normal chain line use. Just out of habbit I've taken a dry rag and wiped it down and it comes out looking perfectly gold with no effort at all. It not even blackend to begin with, it's just a little dark. I mostly only wipe it down to inspect that everything is still getting even oil.
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June 19th, 2014, 08:06 PM | #40 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Thanks Rojo
Folks always say my chains way to dirty, apparently not dirty enough they feel the need to clean it though |
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