Does the quality of the sockets you use matter?

[MrAtom]

The reason I'm in the market for a new socket set is because I couldn't find any of the 3 10mm sockets I own (among other missing sockets in the set) because my dad and my younger brother are even sloppier than me in their ways and don't like to put things back where they belong. I'm locking the new set and I'm going to put a doodle of a middle finger in sharpie on the lock.

[Flying]

Harbor Freight is more than good enough if you're really picky about the applications.

The regular 10 and 12mm sockets are made of cheese, however the Pittsburgh impact sockets are robust enough for weekend warrior use.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Don't forget the 8mm sockets, they like to go on vacation with the 10mm to.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I'm locking the new set and I'm going to put a doodle of a middle finger in sharpie on the lock.

[adouglas]

Make 'em put down a deposit whenever they borrow anything. Back in its place by the end of the day or they forfeit.

[jkv45]

If you get into 1/2 drive sockets, I would consider buying impact sockets. Impact sockets are usually not chromed. All mine have a black oxide finish. That's all I used when I was working professionally, because you were using an impact almost all the time.

I picked up a used set of 1/2 drive Craftsman sockets at a garage sale the other day for $5. Not sure if Craftsman is still making them. Probably not.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I was removing the pedals from a pedalbike, had a pipe over the wrench, hit the back of it with a hammer while stepping on it, and it warped the end of the wrench).

On bicycles, the non drive side is reverse threaded. Have to turn wrench clockwise to loosen that pedal

[tgold]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

12 point bolt heads are meant to be torqued to much higher torque values. Much more common in industrial application than in consumer automotive application.

Think about how a socket transfers torque to a nut/bolt. The more area you have engaged between the driver and the head, the better. Same reason for a torx head cap screw that uses a torx wrench vs a socket head cap screw that uses an allen wrench. More engagement for more torque.



The nice side effect of a 12 point socket is that you can turn 12-sided, 6-sided, and 4-sided bolt heads so long as you're careful about it

If you're in a bind and you don't have Torx drivers to turn a Torx fastener, the right size Allen wrench can often do the job.

Another tip I learned from taking thousands of phillips head screws out in order to remove access panels on helicopters: If you have the slightest indication that your screwdriver bit is going to slip, stop immediately and do the following:
1. Go get some Comet powdered cleanser and add a little water to make a thick paste.
2.Smear some of the paste into the phillips head and on the tip of your driver.
3. Stick the driver into the screw head and give it a tap on the end of the handle. Then turn.
The extra grip of the Comet cleanser is pretty extraordinary. I've gotten some pretty messed-up screws out with this method. Even had it grip so well that the bit broke before the screw would loosen. (in that case nothing short of drilling out the screw was going to work)

Funny story: When I was a helicopter mechanic in the Army I used to keep a little brown bottle of the Comet paste in my tool box so that I could have it handy. One day, the sergeant-major comes by to do an inspection down at the flight line and he looks in my toolbox. He sees the little brown bottle, picks it up and opens it to see this white substance inside. Then he takes a sniff like he's checking to see if it's cocaine. I had to work hard to keep from laughing at him.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by tgold

If you're in a bind and you don't have Torx drivers to turn a Torx fastener, the right size Allen wrench can often do the job.

Another tip I learned from taking thousands of phillips head screws out in order to remove access panels on helicopters: If you have the slightest indication that your screwdriver bit is going to slip, stop immediately and do the following:
1. Go get some Comet powdered cleanser and add a little water to make a thick paste.
2.Smear some of the paste into the phillips head and on the tip of your driver.
3. Stick the driver into the screw head and give it a tap on the end of the handle. Then turn.
The extra grip of the Comet cleanser is pretty extraordinary. I've gotten some pretty messed-up screws out with this method. Even had it grip so well that the bit broke before the screw would loosen. (in that case nothing short of drilling out the screw was going to work)

Funny story: When I was a helicopter mechanic in the Army I used to keep a little brown bottle of the Comet paste in my tool box so that I could have it handy. One day, the sergeant-major comes by to do an inspection down at the flight line and he looks in my toolbox. He sees the little brown bottle, picks it up and opens it to see this white substance inside. Then he takes a sniff like he's checking to see if it's cocaine. I had to work hard to keep from laughing at him.

A+!

You can also use a Torx to loosen an Allen, in a bind.

I have used other things for screws but never Comet. I wonder if Borax would work the same? I have a box of that for my hands.....

[jkv45]

Another handy tool to have is an hand impact driver - the kind you hit with a hammer that turns the hammer impact into a twisting motion. Sometimes that's the only way you can get stubborn screws out (though I haven't tried tgolds Comet trick).

That's especially true when working with "Phillips-head" screws. One note on that - what looks like "Phillips" head screws on Japanese motorcycles is actually "JIS" - Japanese Industry Standard. They are very similar, but not the same.

Adding a set of JIS screwdrivers is a good idea if you like to do your own work.

I have a 3-pc set from McMaster-Carr. Not commonly available locally for the most part. A local hardware store usually won't have a clue as to what you are talking about if you ask for JIS screwdrivers or bits.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

I hate JIS, and every time I get a motorcycle I take all the JIS out and replace them with Stainless allenheads. Its mostly found on carbs and master cylinders.

[DanteCoal]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

I hate JIS, and every time I get a motorcycle I take all the JIS out and replace them with Stainless allenheads.

Ditto. Ripped out every screw on my bike that even tried to look like a phillips or JIS a couple days after I got it. Now they're all allen heads. =P

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

A+!

You can also use a Torx to loosen an Allen, in a bind.

I had to do this on my brand-new GSX-R. One of the fairing bolts was too tight right out of the box and the head began to strip. No way was it going to come out.

I got a Torx bit just a tiny bit bigger than the Allen recess and hammered it in, then used a hand impact driver. Worked like a charm.

The bit gets destroyed in the process, of course.

GREAT tip about the Comet.

[spooph]

Just considering sockets, Craftsman is great for the weekend warrior. You'll never have to buy a broken tool again and they'll last through the project. Harbor Freight is terrible and only useful for tools you'll only use once on a short task. Most of the time they don't even last the length of the task. Blunt force type stuff is OK from them, like vices and such.

For screw drivers, or anything accurate like a torque wrench or a set of calipers go with MAC, Snap-on, or similar. Mainly because of the tip grip, which now I know you can also fix with Comet. Awesome, thanks for that!

[tgold]

Originally Posted by spooph

Just considering sockets, Craftsman is great for the weekend warrior. You'll never have to buy a broken tool again and they'll last through the project. Harbor Freight is terrible and only useful for tools you'll only use once on a short task. Most of the time they don't even last the length of the task. Blunt force type stuff is OK from them, like vices and such.

For screw drivers, or anything accurate like a torque wrench or a set of calipers go with MAC, Snap-on, or similar. Mainly because of the tip grip, which now I know you can also fix with Comet. Awesome, thanks for that!

You're welcome.

Being from an aviation background you might think that I like the high-zoot clicker type torque wrenches when I actually prefer the simple beam type torque wrenches as they are very consistent and accurate once checked for proper calibration. It's very easy to tell if they are off by looking to see if the beam lines up on the zero. If it isn't, you just bend it back till it does and you're calibrated again. The clicker-type torque wrenches should always be be backed-off to zero after each use. Otherwise, leaving the spring compressed can eventually lead to the calibration being off.

[corksil]

The best tools are the ones you use frequently and most often. Experience is far more important than the quality of a tool.

An experienced mechanic with a low quality tool would be far more effective than an inexperienced mechanic with a full set of high quality tools.

Use what you have, and replace things when they break. Don't be an idiot, and don't break anything.

[LittleRedNinjette]

I just want to say thank you for the entertainment of watching my mechanic boyfriend read through this thread.

[spooph]

@LittleRedNinjette what was his reaction?

[LittleRedNinjette]

Can i plead the 5th??

[tgold]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Can i plead the 5th??

Tell him to post up and impart his wisdom if he's all that.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Get good tools. Craftsmen are good and you can find them on sale. Lowes Kolbalt tooling is good to believe it or not. Stay far away for cheap stuff. 6 point, 12 points, impact and so forth have a place.

Harbor freight tooling is a junk and he recommends staying far from it.

Basically it really does pay to get descent tools. Especially for those of us who do most if not all of our own maintenance.

[choneofakind]

^^Just remember to balance the cost of what you're using with the way you're using it.

Buy a good torque wrench, but maybe don't pay a ton for allen wrenches because everyone loses/abuses those. Get a nice ratchet, but you're okay to use cheapie 6-point sockets. Same thing with screw drivers. Everyone loves a nice sharp, clean phillips head screw driver for engaging in the screw, but please keep a cheap flat head on hand for those times you decide to pry open the paint can with a screwdriver...

Know what I mean?

[LittleRedNinjette]

Or have a "other half" with a excellent stock of Snap-On tools.

Kolbalt hand tools realy aren't that pricey though. Default wouldn't use cheap torque wrenches, but i can always borrow one from my work.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Or have a "other half" with a excellent stock of Snap-On tools.

I'd love to have a garage full of Crap-on, Mac, Starrett, etc. But I need a big boy job and big boy garage before I go about doing that. Right now, I have a nice bag full of Craftsman stuff. It works for what it does.

Black Friday sales are great for tool purchases.

[LittleRedNinjette]

yes they are! Got to keep on the lookout.


In his defence he is a mechanic for a living. All the tools he has he built up over the past 15-20 years.

[choneofakind]

Guys who use their tools for a living require nicer tools. Get they get beat on day in and day out. Plus, a tool here and there for 15 years means you end up with a full shop of nice stuff. Jelly!

[HoneyBadgerRy]

I inherited all of my mechanic grandfather's tools, and it makes working on stuff so much easier than when dealing with a bag of craftsman tools.

[choneofakind]

I see nothing wrong with a bag of craftsman tools. Just make sure you know what you need for the job at hand and organize before you work.

It's all about buying what you can afford and justify and paying for the nicer stuff where it's important to you.

I've used a shop full of Mac and Snap-on and Starrett when I was working at a refinery. Was awesome to have great tools every time I worked. But at the same time, for my garage uses, I'm okay using less quality tools because I've not needed to beat on them every day. They've not broken yet. It's different when you're paying for your own tools.

Estate sales/auctions are also a great place to buy hand tools. I've done that too. My torque wrench is older than I am. It's the needle type and is really easy to calibrate. Still works great.

[csmith12]

Hey Chone! Remember eating with tools and stray stuff around the paddock. lol

[choneofakind]

It worked!

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hey Chone! Remember eating with tools and stray stuff around the paddock. lol

Sounds like a great way to ruin the heat treating on your tools.

[choneofakind]

facetious picture...

[csmith12]

These are not facetious pictures. Straight redneck engineering at its finest. Sometimes you just have to make a tool.




I am sure @Motofool could calculate the torque offset here.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

....... I am sure @Motofool could calculate the torque offset here.

Welding chromium-vanadium alloy tool steel is not easy.

It is common practice to use extensions when you need to apply specific torque to a nut or bolt that cannot be accessed with a regular socket.

The most common extension is a crowfoot wrench on the torque wrench; however, I have needed to build tools like this one for really difficult to reach places in industrial applications.

As for the calculations:
http://www.engineersedge.com/manufac...e_wrench_1.htm

[crazymadbastard]

It's amazing how some threads just carry on an on...

[LittleRedNinjette]

TOOL DEFINITIONS:

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest
and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted part
which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to
it.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere
under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints
and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you
to say, ''What the...''

ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their
holes until you die of old age.

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation
of blood-blisters.

BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor
touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable
motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more
dismal your future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt
heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer
intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.

WELDING GLOVES: Heavy duty leather gloves used to prolong the
conduction of intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various
flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the
grease inside the wheel hub you want the bearing grease out of.

TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood
projectiles for testing wall integrity.

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground
after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack
handle firmly under the bumper..

EIGHT-FOOT LONG YELLOW PINE 2X4: Used for levering an automobile
upward off of a trapped hydraulic jack handle.

TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters gained from using a 2X4
to try to lift an automobile off of a trapped hydraulic jack handle.

PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor Chris to see if he has another
hydraulic floor jack.

E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool ten times harder than any
known drill bit that snaps neatly off in bolt holes thereby ending any
possible future use.

BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to
cut good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit into
the trash can after you cut on the inside edge of the line instead of
the outside.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength
of everything you forgot to disconnect.

CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 24-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A very large pry bar that
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end
opposite the handle.

AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under
lids and for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing
oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip
out Phillips screw heads.

STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to
convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or
bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts
adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of
cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly
well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic
bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic
parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while
wearing them.

AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning
power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that
travels by hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty
suspension bolts last tightened 40 years ago by someone in Abingdon,
Oxfordshire and rounds them off.

GODDAMN TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage
while yelling ''GODDAMN IT'' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most
often, the next tool that you will need.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

I just organized my toolbox for the tools I use. For 3/8" I have metric snap on sockets, Mac ratchet, Mac Snap On SK and Craftsman Extinsions. For 1/4" I have all Mac. For 1/2" I have Mac and snap on sockets and impact sockets, SK ratchets, and mismatch extensions. For torque wrenches I have two snap on and one SK (its my favorite). For metric wrenches I have snap on (I'd prefer Mac, but my dad has the only set). For SAE wrenches I have Mac up to 1⅛", from there I have Snap on to somewhere around 1¾".

As for the tools I put in buckets its partially extra Mac and snap on, but mostly SK, craftsman, master mechanic, etc. I even have a set of "JC Penny" (looks like craftsman professional), "sears", and "ace hardware" wrenches.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

The reason for the recent cleaning is I accedently threw my dads Mac ratchet set across the shop when working on a lawnmower, and lost a couple sockets (I crawled on my hands and knees for 35 minutes). I ended up still having to buy a short 13mm 6 point and a short 15mm 6 point for a total of $27. (God good tools are expensive, but worth it)