School Me: accelerating corners, setting up

[Løckøut]

So, my ninjette is stock, save Kenda 657 Challenger rear, and Pirelli MT75 front [both suggested sizes in NinjaWiki]. Reading through your Riding Skill threads, I've begun atacking corners [mild in your eyes, im sure; but way better than Ive done before.]

I'm wondering where I'm chickening out, basically. My back tire has much contact surface and feels very secure in clean corners, its just that feeling of 'maybe I'm too low' that causes me to lift slightly. I've taken corners around 10mph faster on average now that I've instilled into my riding the lack of 'Target Fixation' and keeping my arms bent, and leaning my head in towards my handlebar. I push my butocks back to the edge of the seat before it goes flat, shift onto that inner thigh right past the crease between ass and leg, and seem to pull the bike into turns. It feels great; if only I had some sort of gopro or similar device to show you guys. Reading your riding skill threads has inspired me, but given me a cautionary failsafe at the same time; I know I'm not as good of a rider as 90pct of you, and I dare not push what I think are limits.

I have no tracks in Edmond to practice on, and I'm afraid Oklahoma cops would ffffff me if I played in a parking lot. I guess I'm looking for a post that'd show me the light in terms of how exactly I should be taking these corners; we don't have many twisties here, just long easy turns . Unless youre in a neighborhood, the turn shouldn't be under 20mph. I'm trying to figure out what the max speed to tilt I can achieve is, without risking dumping my baby.

So if this post makes sense, lecture me pls.

[akima]

If you only have long easy turns then you can probably safely turn as fast as your ninjette will go without so much as having to move your bum around on the seat.

I'd go in search of some some nicer roads if I were you. Preferably with corners that you can see right through so you know there's nothing there before you hit the corner.

I have a lot of fun cornering on roundabouts (which there are plenty of over here!).

[JohnnyBravo]

On and off ramps... Shoot the clover

[CC Cowboy]

Ride for 10,000 miles first. Then ask questions on how to be a faster, better rider. Most of it will come naturally with those 10,000 miles.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Løckøut

.............Unless youre in a neighborhood, the turn shouldn't be under 20mph. I'm trying to figure out what the max speed to tilt I can achieve is, without risking dumping my baby.

Could you explain your question a little more for me, Josh?

[choneofakind]

Lol. You risk dumping your baby every time you ride it. No lean required.

That said, track riding will let you easily hit 40-45 degrees lean until you drag hard parts. I guess the biggest limiting factor in how far you lean/how fast you turn/how likely you are to crash while doing so is that big sack of flesh connecting your handlebars to your seat and foot pegs.

[Løckøut]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Could you explain your question a little more for me, Josh?

Well, what I was geting at was, is there a known equation, based on a constant weight of rider, which shows the speed to tilt of the bike, to the degree/angle turn taken, under perfect riding conditions [0-3mph winds, ideal heat to asphalt, with touring/track tire]? I figured with all the studies out there, someone might have stumbled on a gem. Some sort of line graph, or pictures with equations? /shrug

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Løckøut

Well, what I was geting at was, is there a known equation, based on a constant weight of rider, which shows the speed to tilt of the bike, to the degree/angle turn taken, under perfect riding conditions [0-3mph winds, ideal heat to asphalt, with touring/track tire]? I figured with all the studies out there, someone might have stumbled on a gem. Some sort of line graph, or pictures with equations? /shrug

The weight of the rider has almost no effect on the lean angle.

That angle compensates for the lateral force that appears each time that you abandon a rectilinear trajectory.

That lateral force depends on the square of the speed and the inverse of the radius of the turn.

Take a look at these:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100964

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138226

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98085

[RedOctober]

Originally Posted by Løckøut

Well, what I was geting at was, is there a known equation, based on a constant weight of rider, which shows the speed to tilt of the bike, to the degree/angle turn taken, under perfect riding conditions [0-3mph winds, ideal heat to asphalt, with touring/track tire]? I figured with all the studies out there, someone might have stumbled on a gem. Some sort of line graph, or pictures with equations? /shrug

I'm sure such data exists but it's largely useless to you and everyone.
1. Perfect riding conditions do not exist in real world. Pavement temperature varies throughout the day. Cracks/sealer/imperfections in the pavement will affect the grip. Small pebble will affect grip. Your hand input will affect your bike in turn. How are you planning to monitor the lean? You don't exactly have an indicator on the bike and if you do why are you looking at it? (Ex: Many track riders tape up their speedo. It's useless information located in a completely wrong place)
2. You LEARN to take your bike to the extreme. Even if I told you that your tire can easily take 45 deg lean, can you actually ride to take advantage of that? Yes, you might, but if you're new then you'll be hanging on for dear life and not actually relaxing and planning your next corner. The way you learn is you learn to lean the bike to 30 deg first, then 40, then 45 then 60. Progressive improvement, not 0 to hero, 'cause that tends to end in just 0.
3. This isn't MotoGP.

[Løckøut]

I understand all these factors, Red. I simply asked for the data, should it be handy.

Thanks for the post, Motofool. I'll begin studying.

[crazymadbastard]

If you have to ask,you cant afford it.

Ona serious note, only time on the seat will allow you to push it more and more and become confrotable and more proficient. I am taking really slow...

[csmith12]

http://www.howfastcanigo.com/

[Løckøut]

Originally Posted by csmith12

http://www.howfastcanigo.com/

hnnnnngggghhh

[lgk]

join a gymkhana club

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Løckøut

hnnnnngggghhh

I know what I posted wasn't exactly what you wanted. But fact is, your not gunna learn to corner via text on a screen. Sure you can get some theories and such but you just gotta get out there and put them to to work with a watchful eye or at least the right mindset. Anything else can work yes, just takes longer.

If you want to start learning off with a proven method, start with counter steering (slowly!!!), them move to throttle control, and then visual skills. Until you have a confident grasp on those concepts and applications, you will be slowing yourself down in your learning.

Where do you currently stand with those?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by RedOctober

I'm sure such data exists but it's largely useless to you and everyone.
1. Perfect riding conditions do not exist in real world. Pavement temperature varies throughout the day. Cracks/sealer/imperfections in the pavement will affect the grip. Small pebble will affect grip. Your hand input will affect your bike in turn. How are you planning to monitor the lean? You don't exactly have an indicator on the bike and if you do why are you looking at it? (Ex: Many track riders tape up their speedo. It's useless information located in a completely wrong place)
2. You LEARN to take your bike to the extreme. Even if I told you that your tire can easily take 45 deg lean, can you actually ride to take advantage of that? Yes, you might, but if you're new then you'll be hanging on for dear life and not actually relaxing and planning your next corner. The way you learn is you learn to lean the bike to 30 deg first, then 40, then 45 then 60. Progressive improvement, not 0 to hero, 'cause that tends to end in just 0.
3. This isn't MotoGP.

4. It's near impossible to gauge actual lean angle while riding the bike.

5. Perceived lean angle may not, and probably won't, be anything close to actual lean angle.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Løckøut

..........Thanks for the post, Motofool. I'll begin studying.

You are welcome, Josh

Great, feel free to ask more questions, as those concepts may be confusing.

In summary, it is simply Physics of balanced forces applied to any turning two-wheel machine, being the rider's mind the weakest and least predictable of those forces.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by adouglas

4. It's near impossible to gauge actual lean angle while riding the bike.

5. Perceived lean angle may not, and probably won't, be anything close to actual lean angle.

On an nsr when I'm dragging both a boot and knee puck is about that time I decide I'm leaned over as far as I can. Apparently you low side after pushing it any harder than that...

[Løckøut]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I know what I posted wasn't exactly what you wanted. But fact is, your not gunna learn to corner via text on a screen. Sure you can get some theories and such but you just gotta get out there and put them to to work with a watchful eye or at least the right mindset. Anything else can work yes, just takes longer.

If you want to start learning off with a proven method, start with counter steering (slowly!!!), them move to throttle control, and then visual skills. Until you have a confident grasp on those concepts and applications, you will be slowing yourself down in your learning.

Where do you currently stand with those?

No, I liked it. 'Hnngh' is a release sound ;D [got work, will respond in depth this evening[

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

On an nsr when I'm dragging both a boot and knee puck is about that time I decide I'm leaned over as far as I can. Apparently you low side after pushing it any harder than that...

Yeah, but that's not a measurement of specific angle, just a gauge to tell you when you're about to go too far. Løckøut was asking about specific speeds/angles in one of the posts above.

[CycleCam303]

I was just adding some very light humor. Not to be mean but some of the concepts in here are a little ridiculous. Go race a motorcycle. When you're constantly finishing on the podium ask yourself why and everything will make sense. p